please delete

[larry_vw_1955]

Nope. I guess most us who run a full node (such as in a RPi), do it with a 1TB external drive. If we extended the chain with 10.5GB every month, we'd sooner or later need more storage. So the ability for me to run my own node becomes more expensive.

How much does a 12 TB hard drive cost these days? $200? Maybe $150 on sale? Internet service can cost half that price every month.

You know that there aren't many transactions broadcasted in BSV right? At least not if you compare it with Bitcoin.

There's probably even more! They mined 2 1-gigabyte blocks in one day. How many transactions do you think were in those? Probably alot right?? Rest in peace the poor souls that have to store those damn huge blocks for eternity though. I mean they really do have to do that, there's no getting out of it.

[1713958586]

1713958586

[1713958586]

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[larry_vw_1955]

It's definitely huge increase and total UTXO usually grow over time.

yeah but does it really matter just as long as hard drive size outpaces blockchain growth size?

Show us the proof, last time i checked, BSV block size limit was few hundred MB while most blocks almost empty.

Then you must not be checking very often. Just in the last few hours, they had a couple blocks well over a half a gig.

842,094.069
701,736.836
636,876.82

The 636MB block had over 13,000 transactions in it. I think that pretty much proves it. Those are all in the right neighborhood. Whether you believe it or not.
As well it's incorrect to state that "most blocks almost empty" maybe you didn't realize but "most blocks" have over 1000 transactions in them, some blocks have more than 10,000 transactions in them. 

This is a problem on your end. You are probably using outdated drivers for your graphics cards or you are missing some essential Windows updates. Are you using Windows 7 btw? If so, Electrum requires Service Pack 1 and a few other KB installs.

Yeah I figured it was a problem on my end. thanks for the tips. I'll have to give it another go sometime. yeah it's windows 7.

[Dabs]

Yeah I figured it was a problem on my end. thanks for the tips. I'll have to give it another go sometime. yeah it's windows 7.

You probably already know this, but official support for Windows 7 ended last year, in January 14, 2020. No more updates (or at least not easily). Anything wrong with that machine, everyone else (but maybe not bitcoiners here) will tell you to update or something.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I'm not sure if you are hoping that Bitcoin will be limited by current technology or that somehow 'sooner or later' wont ever happen?
Even with 5GB every month, sooner or later you will need more storage.

Yes, sorry for this grammatical mistake. I meant that it'll be much sooner. (And will continuously rise much more than it would)

How much does a 12 TB hard drive cost these days? $200? Maybe $150 on sale? Internet service can cost half that price every month.

It goes beyond $300 for an external HDD with 12TB in my country. That's the cheapest I could find on amazon.

There's probably even more! They mined 2 1-gigabyte blocks in one day. How many transactions do you think were in those? Probably alot right?? Rest in peace the poor souls that have to store those damn huge blocks for eternity though. I mean they really do have to do that, there's no getting out of it.

You mean they mined with a block size limit 1GB? They can't have filled a block with 1GB transactions; I mean they must not have more than a thousand transactions every day.

[n0nce]

I don't understand. Why should an opendime be less secure than another kind of paper / offline wallet?

Opendimes can't survive if they are crushed, melted from high temperatures, or exposed to water for long periods of time. Your typical steel backup will stick around ... but it's a different use case.

Well, the example usage was to load it with 500 bucks and basically use it like a 500 dollar bill to pay for something. Such a bill is also destroyed by crushing, fire or water. I thought you doubted the cryptographic security of an opendime (anything else I would rather call 'safety' than 'security').

I don't understand. Why should an opendime be less secure than another kind of paper / offline wallet?

Because you can't make a backup of them.

Oh, because the private key is pre-set? That makes sense, yeah. But you can build something similar yourself with a backed up private key. Point being, cold storage should never lose its value just because it's not moved on-chain.

people want to argue that you can't trust the new genisys block. bullcrap. you cuold. if enough big websites published the genisys block then people could come to a consensus pretty fast. i'm sure bitcoin.com and coinbase would oblige. (also I heard twitter is useful for publishing new genisys blocks). and twitter has "verified" accounts so we could be sure!

Was this supposed to be a joke? Do you think Bitcoin works like this? Trusting a bunch of Twitter accounts and websites? WTF do you think this is all a joke? I don't know what to reply to this message, I have no words... We don't trust, we verify, damn, we're not Ethereum or some shit coin that follows a Twitter account or other kind of 'leader'...

Doubtful. I can install pretty much any other software and run it with no problem.

I'd still recommend to reinstall your OS especially if it's an old Windows install. But it's a common issue. Some corrupted residue files are flying around in some Electrum directory, that's why you have no issue with other software, but you do with Electrum.

yeah it's windows 7.

RIP

It's not a huge increase. Well it's a 50% increase but it's not out of the question. peoples' hard drive could handle it. If bitcoin sv can be pumping out gigabyte sized blocks every now and then [...]

We are comparing Bitcoin to BSV shitcoin now? Does it come anywhere close to Bitcoin in any aspect? I don't think so. What's the node count? Especially decentralizing a blockchain gets increasingly harder the more resources (read: storage) you require people to buy to run a node.

[larry_vw_1955]

Although "gigabyte sized blocks" isn't accurate term since it's less than 1GB, you proved your point. But obviously the cost of running node will be far more expensive (RAM/CPU on $10 VPS & Raspberry Pi won't be able to handle it), which means Bitcoin community likely will reject your idea.

Well not to bust anyones balls but in the last 4 days (Sept17 through Sept21), they have had 10 blocks over 1GB in size. I just didn't list them but they're there. so that means miners hard drives filled up by at least 10GB in the last 4 days (probably double that). you don't hear bsv miners complainiing though i guess they love their block rewards.

You probably already know this, but official support for Windows 7 ended last year, in January 14, 2020. No more updates (or at least not easily). Anything wrong with that machine, everyone else (but maybe not bitcoiners here) will tell you to update or something.

Yeah I already know that. And I already tried updating the video driver and such but it didnt help. Windows updates I'm not even sure it works anymore on windows 7. i've got them turned off ! i'm not sure i want to change that machine from windows 7 though. but windows updates being not functional, it's kind of sad. i guess i might have to just use a different machine for using electrum because electrum really is my favorite bitcoin wallet pretty much so sad that i have this win 7 issue. but anyhow thans again.

[ranochigo]

\
Well not to bust anyones balls but in the last 4 days (Sept17 through Sept21), they have had 10 blocks over 1GB in size. I just didn't list them but they're there. so that means miners hard drives filled up by at least 10GB in the last 4 days (probably double that). you don't hear bsv miners complainiing though i guess they love their block rewards.

Miners don't complain because they don't have to run a full node. Only pools do and they are compensated by their pool fees. The block size doesn't matter to them, because it means nothing when someone else is paying for it. In the grand scheme of things, actually 0.84EH isn't a lot. When you're trying to prove that 1GB blocks are feasible, it costs nothing to pad your blocks up with transactions of little value and make people think that large blocks are ideal.

Just because I can create an altcoin that pumps 10GB blocks per 10 minutes, doesn't mean that it would be the practical for an actual coin.

[larry_vw_1955]

It goes beyond $300 for an external HDD with 12TB in my country. That's the cheapest I could find on amazon.

But people here would have us believe that hard drive prices are "always going down" lol.

You mean they mined with a block size limit 1GB? They can't have filled a block with 1GB transactions; I mean they must not have more than a thousand transactions every day.

Wrong. As I mentioned, in the last 4 days they mined at least 10 blocks that were at least 1GB in size. As an example, one of them was about 1.8GB and had around 64,000 transactions in it.

[tromp]

miners hard drives filled up by at least 10GB in the last 4 days (probably double that).

Not if they're pruning. Then they just forget about them after verifying.
Makes me wonder how many non-pruning nodes there are on BSV.
How long does it take to sync a BSV node from scratch? Has anyone tried recently?

[NotATether]

Not if they're pruning. Then they just forget about them after verifying.
Makes me wonder how many non-pruning nodes there are on BSV.
How long does it take to sync a BSV node from scratch? Has anyone tried recently?

Well, assuming that you got a 1Gbps line, and your mempool limits are sufficiently high, since the BSV blockchain is almost 800GB large I'd expect it to take twice the amount of time it takes for BTC to perform the IBD. In other words, around 24 to 48 hours or so.

(This is complicated by the fact that they only provide Linux binaries, and a *cough* Docker image).

[larry_vw_1955]

Oh, because the private key is pre-set? That makes sense, yeah. But you can build something similar yourself with a backed up private key.

opendimes can be handed around all over the place and change hands an unlimited number of times but once they get redeemed they can't be used as a bearer instrument anymore. how do you propose to "build something similar yourself with a backed up private key" I'm gonna grab some popcorn and coke and pull up a chair while you explain.

I'd still recommend to reinstall your OS especially if it's an old Windows install. But it's a common issue. Some corrupted residue files are flying around in some Electrum directory, that's why you have no issue with other software, but you do with Electrum.

Well I didn't say I didn't have an issue with other software. But it is rare but there is maybe one other software that had the same issue. Rare though. It's not having anything to do with installed electrum since I use portable versions too. And they have the same problem. Reinstalling the OS is a good bet but I got alot of stuff on the hard drive I dont want to have to reinstall and such.

We are comparing Bitcoin to BSV shitcoin now? Does it come anywhere close to Bitcoin in any aspect? I don't think so. What's the node count? Especially decentralizing a blockchain gets increasingly harder the more resources (read: storage) you require people to buy to run a node.

yeah and from the looks of things, it would be really expensive to store all that bsv blockchain data. I mean just think of 1.8GB blocks popping up here and there. Oops time to make another hard drive purchase. that's probably what the miners are doing, you know? making trips to best buy every friday or every other.

[larry_vw_1955]

Not if they're pruning. Then they just forget about them after verifying.

they cant do tht though. because when people pay to store data they are paying the miners to store it forever.

Makes me wonder how many non-pruning nodes there are on BSV.

there can't be any because see above.

[larry_vw_1955]

And it's more than storage capacity problem.
If you bother to read article mentioned by @NotATether, it's recommended to use high-end computer to run BSV node.

For a listener node that expects a high volume of transactions, the requirements include a minimum 8 12 core/thread CPU, 32GB of RAM and a 1 GB internet connection (up and down).

Yeah those are some steep requirements. But that's good because if I'm gonna be storing my home videos and things I want to make sure they have top notch computer equiment that I can access my data easily and quickly anytime I want to with no downtime. I had hoped that filecoin would be able to deliver on that promise but alas, they wanted to make me pay to store my data temporarily. (Not sure if they ever had a black friday special for lifetime storage.)

Miners don't complain because they don't have to run a full node.

They can be forced to though. if necessary. there are ways to do that. but i guess that's up to bitcoin sv whether they need to. as long as my homevideos are on there forever, i'll be good to go.

Only pools do and they are compensated by their pool fees. The block size doesn't matter to them, because it means nothing when someone else is paying for it.

Well that brings up a good question. Who exactly is paying for it? not that I'm worried about it you understand, just curiious.I mean I had a choice either put my homevideos on youtube but then you never know what might happen to youtube. they might not be around in 100 years.

[larry_vw_1955]

If i correctly understood you, you intend to store file on blockchain because you want 100% uptime with mirror which available worldwide? Bitcoin and most cryptocurrency isn't designed for it and it'll cost you a fortune.

how much do you think it would cost? as long as bitcoin sv miners are honest and store my data, i wouldn't mind paying them a bit to do it. but i need to make sure that they won't pull the rug out from under me.

Was this supposed to be a joke? Shocked Do you think Bitcoin works like this? Shocked Trusting a bunch of Twitter accounts and websites? WTF do you think this is all a joke? Roll Eyes I don't know what to reply to this message, I have no words... We don't trust, we verify, damn, we're not Ethereum or some shit coin that follows a Twitter account or other kind of 'leader'...

yeah it was kind of a joke however, the more i think about it, it's not such a joke. I mean just think of where bitcoin sv might be if the BitcoinAssn hadn't tweeted out to miners and nodes that they needed to invalidate that fraudulent chain by running a particular command on their console. (And to "Please reach out on Twitter" if they had any questions.) I mean where wuold we be?? there might not be such a thing as BSV anymore. But thank goodness for twitter and how effective it was in getting the word out about that fraudulent 51% attack last summer. it's reassuring to know that they stand by ready to tweet in cases of emergency to protect their blockchain's integrity!

[n0nce]

miners hard drives filled up by at least 10GB in the last 4 days (probably double that).

Not if they're pruning. Then they just forget about them after verifying.
Makes me wonder how many non-pruning nodes there are on BSV.
How long does it take to sync a BSV node from scratch? Has anyone tried recently?

Yeah everyone who jumps on a shitcoin's bandwagon to make a quick buck doesn't care about decentralization. So no BSV miner will run an actual full node. They'll have a very small number of full nodes because all they care about is (quick) profit. If the currency tanks, they don't care since they probably cash out in FIAT or BTC daily.

Well I didn't say I didn't have an issue with other software. But it is rare but there is maybe one other software that had the same issue. Rare though. It's not having anything to do with installed electrum since I use portable versions too. And they have the same problem. Reinstalling the OS is a good bet but I got alot of stuff on the hard drive I dont want to have to reinstall and such.

I don't understand how people can use a Windows install for more than half a year at a time. I reinstall OSes regularly and keep data on separate drives, to keep my machines running smoothly. Especially Windows installs... After a few months of Windows updates, driver updates and installed & uninstalled programs, it already starts to get clunky.

We are comparing Bitcoin to BSV shitcoin now? Does it come anywhere close to Bitcoin in any aspect? I don't think so. What's the node count? Especially decentralizing a blockchain gets increasingly harder the more resources (read: storage) you require people to buy to run a node.

yeah and from the looks of things, it would be really expensive to store all that bsv blockchain data. I mean just think of 1.8GB blocks popping up here and there. Oops time to make another hard drive purchase. that's probably what the miners are doing, you know? making trips to best buy every friday or every other.

I don't understand your point. You were saying 'Because BSV is able to store 1GB blocks, Bitcoin should too'. The two aren't comparable though. It was mentioned above that you need a pretty specced-out machine to keep a BSV node running: storage, memory, computing and networking all need to be pretty top notch since this coin seems to push big blocks to the extreme. The number of actual nodes securing that coin must be so small that it would be absolutely inacceptable for Bitcoin.

Also, the initial premise of this whole topic was to make it easier to run a node, as far as I remember, by limiting storage and computing power requirements for the IBD. What BSV is doing, big blocks in general, are absolutely the opposite, as we see in BSV's hardware requirement list. So even if you find a point for the BSV approach of things, it'll be outside this topic's scope.

[DaveF]

yeah and from the looks of things, it would be really expensive to store all that bsv blockchain data. I mean just think of 1.8GB blocks popping up here and there. Oops time to make another hard drive purchase. that's probably what the miners are doing, you know? making trips to best buy every friday or every other.

You are still hung up on blockchain size and you are either just living in your own bubble and don't want to hear it or have some other agenda.
But for the sake of it lets run with BSV. As of today their blockchain is a little under 1TB as can be seen here: https://blockchair.com/bitcoin-sv or here:https://explorer.viawallet.com/bsv/statistics/volume/volume

Even with them pushing out their bogus stupid large blocks they are still not over 1 TB

Now lets do BTC with some really inflated numbers. Although it's below it lets say the blockchain today is 400GB

Now lets say every block from today on out is 4MB and it's 100% filled.

4meg * 6 blocks an hour = 24 meg per hour
24mb * 24 hours = 576 MB a day
576MB * 365 days = 210240 GB per year
So a bit under 4 years go get to 1 TB

Since we have 400GB today and we have now filled 4+ years of blocks that are larger then possible we are still going to fit on a 2TB with your OS and room to spare.
Since you had them running to best buy, here you go https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-blue-2tb-internal-sata-hard-drive-for-desktops/9312076.p?skuId=9312076
$45 for 2TB

On a side note, I just put together a setup to test a node in a box going a bit high end. However:

RPi4 8GB $75
16GB sd card $10
RPi power supply $8
Geekworm NASPi 2.5 inch case $55
2TB 2.5" drive $70

So a little tiny box that can store the blockchain for YEARS and YEARS to come and run a lightning node and an electrum server and some other stuff for under $225
Could easily have shaved $50+ off the price by getting a different case a 4GB Pi and a 1TB Drive.

Stop worrying about the blockchain size.
-Dave

[Dabs]

I would not store my home videos on BSV. That blockchain may not be running in a hundred years. It's possible the miners will keep making money, but I think youtube makes enough money to stick around for at least a hundred years.

I'd spend a couple hundred bucks and just get large spinning hard drives and make backups that way. Or even tape storage. Sorry, this is all OT already.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Well not to bust anyones balls but in the last 4 days (Sept17 through Sept21), they have had 10 blocks over 1GB in size.

What do these weirdos save in their block chain anyways? Whole movies? Why would they publish 10 blocks with 1GB of data each?

But people here would have us believe that hard drive prices are "always going down" lol.

The prices aren't obviously always going down. Take for instance Chia (the cryptocurrency that uses Proof of Storage); the prices of HDDs skyrocketed.

Wrong. As I mentioned, in the last 4 days they mined at least 10 blocks that were at least 1GB in size. As an example, one of them was about 1.8GB and had around 64,000 transactions in it.

Who made 64,000 transactions in BSV? LOL! Are they spamming their own Bitcoin?

How long does it take to sync a BSV node from scratch? Has anyone tried recently?

Probably days, even if it's a shit-fork.

Check this: https://bitcoinsv.io/documentation/miners/system-requirements/

[larry_vw_1955]

What do these weirdos save in their block chain anyways? Whole movies? Why would they publish 10 blocks with 1GB of data each?

All you have to do is go download the blocks and find out. let me know if you discover any good netflix originals.

The prices aren't obviously always going down. Take for instance Chia (the cryptocurrency that uses Proof of Storage); the prices of HDDs skyrocketed.

So there you go! More evidence that hard drive prices and the price of storage is not going to just "keep going down". Not that it has been.

Who made 64,000 transactions in BSV? LOL! Are they spamming their own Bitcoin?

No, it's people that are desperate to send bsv because they been strangleholded by bitcoin's 1MB blocksize limit. Once they were able to convert their BTC into BSV, they started sending money like crazy I'm telling you. I'm afraid if I keep talking about bsv though that Gregory Maxwell is going to delete my account though. Plus he could penalize me for going off topic in this thread which I do apologize for and if he were to ban me I would take full responsibility.

Greg is a smart guy though. Surely he sees the problem with 1mb size blocks and why they encourage high transaction fees.

Now lets say every block from today on out is 4MB and it's 100% filled.

4meg * 6 blocks an hour = 24 meg per hour
24mb * 24 hours = 576 MB a day
576MB * 365 days = 210240 GB per year
So a bit under 4 years go get to 1 TB

I think you meant 210240 MB per year and yes, that's a nice little blueprint for how bitcoin is able to limit its scalability right? If you can only do 210240 MB of transactions per year then you're not going to be competing with visa.

I'm really worried though they might freeze this thread or ban me because it did get a bit OT. But it has been interesting.

I'm not sure about Craig Wright, I mean Satoshi. But he's not a dummy. He has to have some type of brain on him.

I would not store my home videos on BSV. That blockchain may not be running in a hundred years.

That may very well be. It certainly doesn't seem to be a sustainable model having as a goal to push terabyte sized blocks. But you do have to give credit to BSV. They're not just your father's cryptocurrency.

[Syke]

So there you go! More evidence that hard drive prices and the price of storage is not going to just "keep going down". Not that it has been.

A 1 TB drive (good to store another 10 years of bitcoin blocks) costs $30. Storage is not a problem.