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Question: Would a share ownership or loan note arrangement in Goliath interest you?  (Voting closed: January 01, 2013, 03:14:47 PM)
Yes for shares - 20 (19%)
Yes for loan note - 1 (1%)
I just want my own Goliath - 55 (52.4%)
No not at all - 29 (27.6%)
Total Voters: 105

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Author Topic: Goliath  (Read 8956 times)
Isokivi
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December 13, 2012, 08:43:40 AM
 #21

Given you haven't provided any specs, details, anything it is just rhetorical/academic but please don't provide no worthless mining bonds (which seems to be what you are intended to offer).  I would point out to anyone who may not realize that with a mining bond one doesn't even need the hardware.  Just price them at a point where you guestimate the bond will be worthless long before you paid out more in dividends then you collected on face.  Given global hashpower only rises it is a pretty safe bet.

If you want to run a mining company then run a mining company.  i.e. a registered corporations with officers and directors on file (and subject to real prison for fraud).  Pay your taxes, open books, the whole nine yards.  You know real business.  Come up with a real business plan and at least a prototype which shows you can achieve the hash/$ and hash/J necessary to compete.

Anything less is just a tired scam in a long series of already been done scams.


Sad as it may be, DeathAndTaxes view and statements make perfect sense. As they always do solong as I comprehend what he's talking about.

I dont see why your in here looking for investors, this kind of buisness belongs in banks and other financial institutions that some of us dislike and it's called a loan.

If you were to sell hardware I'd be onboard in a heartbeat.

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cunicula
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December 13, 2012, 08:45:45 AM
Last edit: December 13, 2012, 09:06:11 AM by cunicula
 #22

We think we can build so much hashing power that it would make the market unstable and we plan to control the hashing power release to avoid creating a problem.
Quote from: 2112
What else could cause "unstability" in the Bitcoin market aside from part time operation? Pretend for a moment that Enterpoint had already delivered (and received payment) for a high-frequency trading hardware that is operated 5*4hours/week during the window where both NYSE and LSE are open.

Many people seem to think that any single entity controlling 51% of hashing power would make the market unstable. He said market, not block arrival rate.

BTW, how do I invest and what size investments are you looking for? Also how much hashing power are you targeting? Will the controlled release be in the 10-40% range?


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December 13, 2012, 10:21:13 AM
 #23

We think we can build so much hashing power that it would make the market unstable and we plan to control the hashing power release to avoid creating a problem.
Quote from: 2112
What else could cause "unstability" in the Bitcoin market aside from part time operation? Pretend for a moment that Enterpoint had already delivered (and received payment) for a high-frequency trading hardware that is operated 5*4hours/week during the window where both NYSE and LSE are open.

Many people seem to think that any single entity controlling 51% of hashing power would make the market unstable. He said market, not block arrival rate.

BTW, how do I invest and what size investments are you looking for? Also how much hashing power are you targeting? Will the controlled release be in the 10-40% range?


We would be avoiding having any more than 50%. With the 100K ASICs *** are promising that is unlikely to be an issue other than maybe the return for *** owners if we end up doubling that effectively with our contribution to hashing power. There are already several existing Enterpoint designed and manufactured systems that could already do 51%+ none of those are ever likely to be turned to Bitcoin mining or even Bitcoin breaking. They make better money for their owners doing other things. In the world of High performance Computing Bitcoin is very much a small fry thing.

Investment levels are TBD. Way to early to decide that. We need to decide first the mechanism and how big the inital system will be. I think it would be down to some sensible unit if we go for either the share or loan options say maybe $100 as a the base unit or maybe 10 BTC. I would expect some nice round number at least in at least one currency. Basically not too small for admin off or not too large to put people off that want to be involved. We envisage that this might be a process where people add to their holdings over time.


Sounds good.


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December 13, 2012, 12:53:57 PM
 #24

Yohan, I think you still don't understand how Bitcoin mining is supposed to work. There might come a day when a large government decides that it wants to shut down Bitcoin and they would have a hard time shutting down thousands of miners around the world. It will be much, much easier if there are only a few big miners. Bitcoin mining is meant to be widely distributed in order to be as robust as possible. Please sell your hardware to as many people as possible if you care about Bitcoin.

Those who cause problems for others also cause problems for themselves.
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December 13, 2012, 02:06:35 PM
 #25

There might come a day when a large government decides that it wants to shut down Bitcoin and they would have a hard time shutting down thousands of miners around the world. It will be much, much easier if there are only a few big miners. Bitcoin mining is meant to be widely distributed in order to be as robust as possible. Please sell your hardware to as many people as possible if you care about Bitcoin.
I actually agree with this.

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meowmeowbrowncow
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December 13, 2012, 02:28:50 PM
 #26

Scenario 1

Enterpoint gets a conventional loan from a bank.  Mines bitcoin.  Private, centralized.  


Scenario 2

Enterpoint offers equity stake mining bond to community.  Dividends paid.  Capital risk hedged on the back of community if bitcoin tanks.  
Investors have little idea if the product can scale performance wise.  A privately controlled product developed on what effectively is a loan from a community of potential competitors.



Either way it's pretty shite.

"Bitcoin has been an amazing ride, but the most fascinating part to me is the seemingly universal tendency of libertarians to immediately become authoritarians the very moment they are given any measure of power to silence the dissent of others."  - The Bible
cunicula
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December 13, 2012, 02:36:03 PM
 #27

Scenario 1

Enterpoint gets a conventional loan from a bank.  Mines bitcoin.  Private, centralized.  


Scenario 2

Enterpoint offers equity stake mining bond to community.  Dividends paid.  Capital risk hedged on the back of community if bitcoin tanks.  
Investors have little idea if the product can scale performance wise.  A privately controlled product developed on what effectively is a loan from a community of potential competitors.



Either way it's pretty shite.

It will happen anyways. He might as well give the community a chance to profit from it.
meowmeowbrowncow
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December 13, 2012, 02:51:16 PM
 #28

Scenario 1

Enterpoint gets a conventional loan from a bank.  Mines bitcoin.  Private, centralized.  


Scenario 2

Enterpoint offers equity stake mining bond to community.  Dividends paid.  Capital risk hedged on the back of community if bitcoin tanks.  
Investors have little idea if the product can scale performance wise.  A privately controlled product developed on what effectively is a loan from a community of potential competitors.



Either way it's pretty shite.

It will happen anyways. He might as well give the community a chance to profit from it.


@ Yohan and Cunicula


I am going to refrain from giving my opinion on projects like this in the future.  I do agree this will happen regardless of how I personally feel, or many people feel, about it.


We'll all see what happens.

"Bitcoin has been an amazing ride, but the most fascinating part to me is the seemingly universal tendency of libertarians to immediately become authoritarians the very moment they are given any measure of power to silence the dissent of others."  - The Bible
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December 13, 2012, 03:48:34 PM
 #29

     Just what the Bitcoin Mining Community Does NOT need is a Multi-million $$ company taking more from Us little guys...Let us Individuals have the Mining and all you Companies keep doing the Hardware.  It's things like this that taking away opportunities for the Small Individuals that would like to have a Nice Hobby and Make a Little money as well!!   

This is just my opinion but it's this stuff that will ruin mining as intended when Bitcoin was Developed.  The people w/ big money Swallowing up the individuals.

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BitcoinINV
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December 13, 2012, 03:53:54 PM
 #30

He is just doing what BFL did Selling you a Idea but at least he told you in advance lol

cunicula
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December 13, 2012, 03:54:24 PM
 #31

Just do the project. It will be controversial, but you will get investors if you offer reasonable terms. Preferably equity in my view.
People may not want their investment status to be public. But they will be happy to invest in secret.
Plenty of people would love to get involved in mining via investing in a legally registered company.
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December 13, 2012, 04:09:19 PM
 #32

I cannot even see this thread in the subforum without getting this song stuck in my head.

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Dagger75
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December 13, 2012, 04:10:01 PM
 #33

He is just doing what BFL did Selling you a Idea but at least he told you in advance lol

Atleast w/ BFL and the other ASIC Companies you Can Buy the Hardware and can be Equal with the other guys...

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December 13, 2012, 04:11:20 PM
 #34

There might come a day when a large government decides that it wants to shut down Bitcoin and they would have a hard time shutting down thousands of miners around the world. It will be much, much easier if there are only a few big miners. Bitcoin mining is meant to be widely distributed in order to be as robust as possible. Please sell your hardware to as many people as possible if you care about Bitcoin.
I actually agree with this.

+1  Yup

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December 13, 2012, 04:30:11 PM
 #35

He is just doing what BFL did Selling you a Idea but at least he told you in advance lol

Atleast w/ BFL and the other ASIC Companies you Can Buy the Hardware and can be Equal with the other guys...
No, we can, he can't. He bought the "idea" too, but BFL returned the money he payed for a Jalapeño because they did not want him as a customer anymore.   Grin

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December 13, 2012, 04:38:36 PM
 #36

several goverments already have equipment that can do a 51% attack if they want to bring down Bitcoin. I'd also make the comment that they have deep pockets and any ASIC technology deployed in Bitcoin rigs can be beaten by a goverment with money for a much better technology.

A 51% attack can be defended with checkpoints, rollbacks, and algorithm changes. If Bitcoin is made illegal then mining will happen through TOR and there is a good chance that Bitcoin will survive. A public mining company would collapse like a house of cards when mining is made illegal.

Those who cause problems for others also cause problems for themselves.
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December 13, 2012, 04:43:30 PM
 #37

Just do it. You are speaking sense.
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December 13, 2012, 04:50:23 PM
 #38

He is just doing what BFL did Selling you a Idea but at least he told you in advance lol

Atleast w/ BFL and the other ASIC Companies you Can Buy the Hardware and can be Equal with the other guys...
No, we can, he can't. He bought the "idea" too, but BFL returned the money he payed for a Jalapeño because they did not want him as a customer anymore.   Grin

Haha, I hate it when that happens  Shocked

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December 13, 2012, 06:53:33 PM
 #39

He is just doing what BFL did Selling you a Idea but at least he told you in advance lol

Atleast w/ BFL and the other ASIC Companies you Can Buy the Hardware and can be Equal with the other guys...
No, we can, he can't. He bought the "idea" too, but BFL returned the money he payed for a Jalapeño because they did not want him as a customer anymore.   Grin

Did I not see you crying about BFL in some other thread? Guess its just personal now lol

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December 13, 2012, 07:49:29 PM
 #40

I'm not real interested in a Mining Bond myself. I really like my CM1 Devices and would prefer to have actual Hardware.
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