Renewable Bitcoin Farm

[martinkeat]

First time I have posted here.

I am a renewable engineer in Scotland. I have the opportunity of a fairly new building (90's) which has substancial ground to the rear.

I have done a lot of research on the bitcoin community and it seems mining is not as profitable as it used to be because of the slump in the price, the cost of powering the miners etc.

Ive also looked at cloud mining and the cost to profit ration doesn't seem to be worth the hassle.

That being said. My father is an electrician, im a renewables engineer and I have guys who are very into the BC mining. My mother-in-law is also an accountant.

Id like to combine the 3 but ultimately it comes down to BC community investment.

What I am proposing is not cloud mining but share ownership.

Put simply. In return for investment from the BC community, I would buy and turn this building and land into a mining farm run on solar and wind power (an investment at the start but fully self sustaining). From what I can see, the 100m2 of land would be enough to become profitable within 18 months and would be self-sustaining thereafter (building in 15% safety fund for repairs and maintenance).

What I am offering is simple, not rental of mining equipment but shares in the project to those who invested in getting it off the ground. That would give those who invest an annual dividend (payout) based on their % of share ownership, each year and continuing onward. Each individual investor would be issued with a share certificate.

The difference here is that with my contacts in the renewable industry I can sell the excess generated power back to the power companies and generate profit there as well.

The building and surrounding land would be owned by the investment group. Which means a large chunk of your investment would be backed by bricks, mortar and land should it be decided in 3,4,5,10 years time that it was time to shut down. But that is not the plan, the plan is to continue to scale up. There is of course the other side of things, it being a share certificate, if you wanted to leave the investment club you could sell your share to someone else.

I'm putting the feelers out first to see if people on this forum and the BC community at large would be interested in this.

[martinkeat]

Oh! of course I would be asking you all for reviews and input on the mining rigs etc.

[DannyHamilton]

High SCAM potential!

I would warn anyone even considering this story to be VERY careful and make absolutely certain that the entire project isn't just a front for a Ponzi scheme or some other scam.

It is very easy to make up such a story and even mail out fake "reports" indicating progress that has never actually happened.  You should carefully review any and all project plans and budgets, and you should arrange an INDEPENDENT (not someone that the OP has arranged) auditor to verify the site and progress if you are unable to visit and verify everything yourself.

Make sure that you have verified any and all identification that you are provided and that you have enough identification on the OP to actually pursue legal action if necessary.  You should also probably run your plans by a lawyer to make sure that your properly protected.

[robelneo]

Oh! of course I would be asking you all for reviews and input on the mining rigs etc.

Your plan is subject for audit you will also need a site for this project so you will not explain in full details to each one how the project is progressing but before you need to first establish your self here on this forum,keep us posted this is new to us and could be profitable in the long run 

[martinkeat]

High SCAM potential!

I would warn anyone even considering this story to be VERY careful and make absolutely certain that the entire project isn't just a front for a Ponzi scheme or some other scam.

It is very easy to make up such a story and even mail out fake "reports" indicating progress that has never actually happened.  You should carefully review any and all project plans and budgets, and you should arrange an INDEPENDENT (not someone that the OP has arranged) auditor to verify the site and progress if you are unable to visit and verify everything yourself.

Make sure that you have verified any and all identification that you are provided and that you have enough identification on the OP to actually pursue legal action if necessary.  You should also probably run your plans by a lawyer to make sure that your properly protected.

I can understand the reluctance there danny. It's one of the reasons I want to do this, mainly from reading the horror stories from a lot of people on these forums. If it were to go ahead though, I would be doing it as a fully registered company in Scotland, registered with companies house. It would also have fully registered Company Numbers, VAT registration numbers and annual reports would be put online. I would make a direct line and contact details available for everyone to contact me directly that was investing. There would be annual shareholder meetings (with skype connectivity for those who couldn't make it) and I would of course bring in a reputable firm to deal with financial side. The farm itself would also be open for anyone to actually come and visit if they wanted.

I understand a lot of peoples reluctance on this sort of thing and would want to ensure everything was about board, any questions, anyone if free to ask me.

[tertius993]

Whilst I fully acknowledge the concerns that Danny Hamilton raises I would say to the OP, *IF* you are serious then the first thing you need to do is put together a business plan.

Off the top of my head, it will need (at least) the following:

1. legal costs (and the name of the firm you propose to use for the company structure)
2. costs of acquiring the building/land
3. location (with reasonable accuracy) of the property
4. costs to prepare the site for utilities: power, internet and cooling
5. proposal for renewable infrastructure, types, costs and typical performance in this location vs expected demand  
6. costs to fit out for racking and power distribution
7. how you will keep the site secure
8. costs for mining equipment, manufacturer, type and source (including of course, delivery, VAT and other taxes); this will be needed to properly estimate item 5.
9. forward projections for hash rate, difficulty, assumed BTC value
10. ongoing investment required to refresh and replace hardware as it goes obsolete
11. forecast income from sale of old mining equipment
12. intended mechanism for selling BTC
13. investment options (BTC/FIAT/etc.)
14. proposed distribution to investors (e.g. FIAT vs BTC; frequency; tax treatment; etc. (see also #1.))
15. operating costs (see 7. in particular, but there are others - admin, building maintenance, etc.)

I'm sure I have forgotten many things but, in summary you need to know:

A. cost to setup
B. cost to run (per month)
C. return (per month)

Does C (in aggregate) exceed A + B (in aggregate) within a reasonable timeframe?

Seriously, do that and do the sums yourself before you start posting anything else.

[calkob]

I think you are sincerely genuine, but i dont think you have fully understood the computer arms race that is currently going on, have you seen the difficulty increase in just the last month?  I dont know but i guess the amount of investmant you would need to set up a mining farm that was profitable would need millions at the minute, anything set up now would be out of date within 6 months.....

[Jet Cash]

With your contacts and experience, and a property to use as security, you would find it easy to fund a viable project without having to give away equity. This is especially true whilst we are in a period of ZIRP.

[franky1]

i did make a waffly message. here is the shorter version
based on an antminer s7 (4.5thash realistically,1200watt) running for 3 months.
would earn at most £450

would require 17x 240w solar panels to run(based on average 7 hours of good scottish sunlight per day, for the power usage/store needed to run 24/7)

(edit: 10mx10m=2 rigs worth of panels)

currently ONgrid electric = £540 for 3 months of the 28.8kwh(a day) production
and solar works out as £85 cost for 3 months(from the division over 10 years)

so ongrid, miners get minus £90 (we all agree that is not good)
solar, miners get £815 at most over 3 months for 2 rigs

=£243.20 a month. for 2 rigs

now that wont cover the mortgage, nor the maintenance, nor your own admin/wage to manage it. let alone the 2 x £1300 antminer cost that is obsolete in 3 months(£940 a month for 2 rigs with 3 month lifespan)

maybe you should speak to your mother(edit: inlaw) about costing it out..

[unamis76]

Go ahead and set everything up. If you succeed we'll be here to back you up for expanding further. The project sounds really interesting, and I'd definitely be mining more if I had access to renewable energy, so developments on that are always welcome.

[batesresearch]

Interesting idea, what would be your source of renewable energy? I work with a few projects in renewable energy (Mainly wind based) but have a few UK based contacts), I myself am looking for land in Scotland (For a different reason) but have found some old buildings and land going pretty cheap.

Where about in Scotland?

[franky1]

Interesting idea, what would be your source of renewable energy? I work with a few projects in renewable energy (Mainly wind based) but have a few UK based contacts), I myself am looking for land in Scotland (For a different reason) but have found some old buildings and land going pretty cheap.

Where about in Scotland?

his plan.. a building with 100m² sounds suspiciously like a house with a back garden. i think he is hoping we invest to pay the deposit on his mortgage and then he hashes away for £121 per rig a month to go towards the monthly mortgage payments

[defaultking]

I think this is a great idea and you have all the players you sound like you need but, have you done any initial costs estimates to see how long a return on investment will take? Seems like the roi for a project like this wouldn't be much better than investing in cloud mining, but would be interested to see what you find out.

[Jet Cash]

What would be the profit if you just used it to generate electricity with solar and wind energy? Would your project make you more money?

[tertius993]

Interesting idea, what would be your source of renewable energy? I work with a few projects in renewable energy (Mainly wind based) but have a few UK based contacts), I myself am looking for land in Scotland (For a different reason) but have found some old buildings and land going pretty cheap.

Where about in Scotland?

his plan.. a building with 100m² sounds suspiciously like a house with a back garden. i think he is hoping we invest to pay the deposit on his mortgage and then he hashes away for £100 a month to go towards the monthly mortgage payments

I suspect he means 100m squared, i.e. 100 metres x 100 metres or 10,000 sq.m even in the UK no one would describe a 10m x 10m outside space as "substantial" when talking about putting solar and wind generation units onto it.

I am slightly confused by his statement about "using his contacts to sell excess power back to the grid" - as you don't need contacts to do that; it is standard practice.

[martinkeat]

My bad. Ive not slept properly this week. Its 110,980 sq ft so 10,000 sqm but this is only one site. There are many more in the area with a lot more sqft for the buck.

Interesting idea, what would be your source of renewable energy? I work with a few projects in renewable energy (Mainly wind based) but have a few UK based contacts), I myself am looking for land in Scotland (For a different reason) but have found some old buildings and land going pretty cheap.

Where about in Scotland?

his plan.. a building with 100m² sounds suspiciously like a house with a back garden. i think he is hoping we invest to pay the deposit on his mortgage and then he hashes away for £100 a month to go towards the monthly mortgage payments

I suspect he means 100m squared, i.e. 100 metres x 100 metres or 10,000 sq.m even in the UK no one would describe a 10m x 10m outside space as "substantial" when talking about putting solar and wind generation units onto it.

I am slightly confused by his statement about "using his contacts to sell excess power back to the grid" - as you don't need contacts to do that; it is standard practice.

[martinkeat]

As I said, this is a first stage enquiry to see what the script would be. I am new to the BC scene.

I was unaware the potential revenues from mining were as pants as that.

For the record franky. My mother has secondary progressive M.S and full blown dementia, so that comment of yours - seriously uncool mate.

i did make a waffly message. here is the shorter version
based on an antminer s7 (4.5thash realistically,1200watt) running for 3 months.
would earn at most £450

would require 17x 240w solar panels to run(based on average 7 hours of good scottish sunlight per day, for the power usage/store needed to run 24/7)
requiring 529m² space (23m x 23m) to give each panel enough room and excess to not cause shadows on nearby panels
(you need a garden 5x bigger just for 1 antminer to run)

currently ONgrid electric = £540 for 3 months of the 28.8kwh(a day) production
and solar works out as £85 cost for 3 months(from the division over 10 years)

so ongrid, miners get minus £90 (we all agree that is not good)
solar, miners get £365 at most over 3 months

=£121.60 a month.
now that wont cover the mortgage, nor the maintenance, nor your own admin/wage to manage it. let alone the £1300 cost of the antminer that is obsolete in 3 months(£435 a month)

maybe you should speak to your mother about costing it out..

[franky1]

I am slightly confused by his statement about "using his contacts to sell excess power back to the grid" - as you don't need contacts to do that; it is standard practice.

thats called reputation building.. by saying he knows experts and bigwigs.. (even if we dont know them, name dropping anyone makes things sound more legit)




as for the land. sorry i done some bad maths too quickly (ill edit it)
17 panels (it needs 5 solar panels if there was 24/7 sunlight. or 17 if only 7hours of good scottish sunlight.)
based on 10m x 10m
[1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5] 9m
[1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5]
[1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5]
[1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5]
[1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5]
[1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5][1.5]
9m
(logically you cant fit a 1.5 length panel into a 1m remaining gap)
= 36 panels, enough power for 2 mining rigs running 24/7 using 7hours sunlight

but if it is a substantial 100m x 100m =256 rigs=£31,000/month (before mortgage and unit cost)

unit cost £1300 x 256=£332,800
£332,800/3month lifetime=~£111,000. mining rig purchase cost per month

or income from mining = minus £80,000 once you subtract the rig cost..

that said. if he lived in a sunnier climate that had an average of 12 hours sunlight needing only 10 panels per rig (435 rigs in a 100m x 100m)
the cost of a unit on bitmains website is still £1300 each
so even if he is now mining £52,896 a month
the rigs will cost £565,500 (/3life cycle=£188500 a month).

leaving him minus ~£130,000 out of pocket per month

the only people that can gain are those chinese folk who actually make the rigs for under £300 (while charging the rest of us retail prices of £1300)
in short for every 1 unit outsiders buys the chinese get 3 free, meaning no cost of equipment. and ongrid electric 4x cheaper than the uk, means they are very profitable

[odolvlobo]

I don't know much about solar power in Scotland, but it seems like one of the worst locations due to latitude and weather. How much power do you expect to generate and how much will it cost to build that capacity?

[franky1]

For the record franky. My mother has secondary progressive M.S and full blown dementia, so that comment of yours - seriously uncool mate.

my bad, i should have read the -in-law part

My mother-in-law is also an accountant.

i edited my post to reflect that, sorry