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Author Topic: Contribute, or die.  (Read 1973 times)
sillug
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December 31, 2015, 05:20:05 AM
 #21

A lot of people however doesnt have the opportunity to work... I think you're being cruel to those people here  Undecided
How do they not have the opportunity to work? Tell me please. Anyone can go out and get a job. Even if it's a minimum wage job, it's a job and you will be respected for contributing to society in a way that we need you to.

What if you're paralyzed?
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ace45954
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December 31, 2015, 05:22:30 AM
 #22

Roll Eyes And how exactly would we determine who is "contributing"?
By finding out who has a JOB.
Snooki and Kim Kardashian are both employed.
Doing WHAT?
Being TV celebrities. "Acting" and what not. That's why I asked how do you determine who is "contributing". You and I might agree that people like Kim and Snooki contribute nothing of value to society, but what right do you have to place lives and livelihoods on the line based on how you feel?

Part of living in a developed country is not having homeless people starving to death outside Walmart. Do you really not believe in society supporting the homeless?
I believe in the homeless supporting themselves. They need to get off the ground, suck it up and get a job to take care of themselves. People that don't even know the homeless personally shouldn't be working harder than the homeless are to fix their own problems. And if it's a sitiation where people just don't wanna hire somebody even though they comply with the minimum requirements, you can sue. I'm sure Trump will agree. Blessed be his name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis
I get the impression you are young.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/29/traumatic-brain-injury-homelessness_n_5227637.html
Many homeless people have traumatic brain injuries. In addition many have preexisting mental illnesses. They can't suck it up and just get jobs. They can't have their daddy give them a "A Small Loan of a Million Dollars?.

You foolishly believe that everyone is in the situation they are in because they deserve it. It's an enticing position to hold. It's fun to be able to yell about how everyone just needs to work harder and suck up everything that comes their way. But it is a viewpoint that conflicts with reality.

http://www.veteransinc.org/about-us/statistics/
"Approx. 33% of homeless males in the U.S. are veterans."

You tell me. Are these veterans just lazy bums? Do you want them to die off because they no longer contribute?

Well, they use to be needed. Now they are not. We have no ue for them anymore so they should be allowed to go to a hospital, and be gently and painlessly put to sleep. I see nothing wrong with that. To be honest, most homeless people probably wish they were dead because roaming the streets with no where to really go, digging in the trash cans for food and sleeping under benches is a whole lot more degrading than accepting the fact that you simply cannot meet the minimum requirements for any job anymore and should voluntarily check into a hospital to be euthanized.

Now if only hospitals would allow that.
"We have no use for them anymore so kill them"
Literally Hitler. We clearly hold different moral standards so this discussion is pointless.
Guess the elderly should all be put down too then. Sorry Grandma.
Also, no one except the terminally ill and small number of suicidal are going to voluntarily check in to be killed. Go ask a homeless person if they want to be murdered and I'm guessing the vast majority will give an emphatic no.


...Except the difference between Hitler and I is I grew up in a loving family, and don't want people to suffer.



So now it's about morality? I thought it was about not having to support all the "deadbeats". If that's the case why aren't you supporting greater funding for mental health and research into traumatic head injuries? These people aren't broken, they are ill, but they can be helped.

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December 31, 2015, 05:28:02 AM
 #23

A lot of people however doesnt have the opportunity to work... I think you're being cruel to those people here  Undecided
How do they not have the opportunity to work? Tell me please. Anyone can go out and get a job. Even if it's a minimum wage job, it's a job and you will be respected for contributing to society in a way that we need you to.

What if you're paralyzed?
Permanently or temporarily? If temporarily, for how long?
TheGr33k
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December 31, 2015, 05:38:51 AM
 #24


So now it's about morality? I thought it was about not having to support all the "deadbeats". If that's the case why aren't you supporting greater funding for mental health and research into traumatic head injuries? These people aren't broken, they are ill, but they can be helped.
It's about many things. Money, the ill, the paralyzed, the wounded, and the obsolete. I can try explaining myself in a different way.


People who are dealing with cancer are always on edge. Some of them are consistently in physical pain where they actually feel their body slowly shutting down. For some, it's more painful then having your legs sawed off slowly. I can't look at those people and say " It's gonna be okay". It won't be okay and in the meantime, things are gonna be painful. I will never know their pain and I refuse to look them in the eye and tell them they should fight to live if I know they're in pain and I know there's no hope for them to work the same way again. They won't be happy working. Cancer victims would eventually die. A miracle would have to happen for them to live and only a handful of miracles have happened when it comes to cancer survivors. For the ones that live, they will not work the same way again. We can't gamble when it comes to a person's physical and mental pain. I'd rather they die now than later and endure more months or years or however long they have until their scheduled death from cancer.
ace45954
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December 31, 2015, 05:45:29 AM
 #25


So now it's about morality? I thought it was about not having to support all the "deadbeats". If that's the case why aren't you supporting greater funding for mental health and research into traumatic head injuries? These people aren't broken, they are ill, but they can be helped.
It's about many things. Money, the ill, the paralyzed, the wounded, and the obsolete. I can try explaining myself in a different way.


People who are dealing with cancer are always on edge. Some of them are consistently in physical pain where they actually feel their body slowly shutting down. For some, it's more painful then having your legs sawed off slowly. I can't look at those people and say " It's gonna be okay". It won't be okay and in the meantime, things are gonna be painful. I will never know their pain and I refuse to look them in the eye and tell them they should fight to live if I know they're in pain and I know there's no hope for them to work the same way again. They won't be happy working. Cancer victims would eventually die. A miracle would have to happen for them to live and only a handful of miracles have happened when it comes to cancer survivors. For the ones that live, they will not work the same way again. We can't gamble when it comes to a person's physical and mental pain. I'd rather they die now than later and endure more months or years or however long they have until their scheduled death from cancer.
I never said I was against voluntary euthanasia, I support it in fact. I do not however support viewing people as cogs who need to contribute with the alternative being death. I believe wholeheartedly that the paralyzed, sick, and weak ought to be taken care of if they wish to live.

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TheGr33k
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December 31, 2015, 05:59:28 AM
 #26


So now it's about morality? I thought it was about not having to support all the "deadbeats". If that's the case why aren't you supporting greater funding for mental health and research into traumatic head injuries? These people aren't broken, they are ill, but they can be helped.
It's about many things. Money, the ill, the paralyzed, the wounded, and the obsolete. I can try explaining myself in a different way.


People who are dealing with cancer are always on edge. Some of them are consistently in physical pain where they actually feel their body slowly shutting down. For some, it's more painful then having your legs sawed off slowly. I can't look at those people and say " It's gonna be okay". It won't be okay and in the meantime, things are gonna be painful. I will never know their pain and I refuse to look them in the eye and tell them they should fight to live if I know they're in pain and I know there's no hope for them to work the same way again. They won't be happy working. Cancer victims would eventually die. A miracle would have to happen for them to live and only a handful of miracles have happened when it comes to cancer survivors. For the ones that live, they will not work the same way again. We can't gamble when it comes to a person's physical and mental pain. I'd rather they die now than later and endure more months or years or however long they have until their scheduled death from cancer.
I never said I was against voluntary euthanasia, I support it in fact. I do not however support viewing people as cogs who need to contribute with the alternative being death. I believe wholeheartedly that the paralyzed, sick, and weak ought to be taken care of if they wish to live.
I do too but only if they can be cured to get back on their feet to work to contribute positively to the rest of society.
ace45954
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December 31, 2015, 06:04:21 AM
 #27


So now it's about morality? I thought it was about not having to support all the "deadbeats". If that's the case why aren't you supporting greater funding for mental health and research into traumatic head injuries? These people aren't broken, they are ill, but they can be helped.
It's about many things. Money, the ill, the paralyzed, the wounded, and the obsolete. I can try explaining myself in a different way.


People who are dealing with cancer are always on edge. Some of them are consistently in physical pain where they actually feel their body slowly shutting down. For some, it's more painful then having your legs sawed off slowly. I can't look at those people and say " It's gonna be okay". It won't be okay and in the meantime, things are gonna be painful. I will never know their pain and I refuse to look them in the eye and tell them they should fight to live if I know they're in pain and I know there's no hope for them to work the same way again. They won't be happy working. Cancer victims would eventually die. A miracle would have to happen for them to live and only a handful of miracles have happened when it comes to cancer survivors. For the ones that live, they will not work the same way again. We can't gamble when it comes to a person's physical and mental pain. I'd rather they die now than later and endure more months or years or however long they have until their scheduled death from cancer.
I never said I was against voluntary euthanasia, I support it in fact. I do not however support viewing people as cogs who need to contribute with the alternative being death. I believe wholeheartedly that the paralyzed, sick, and weak ought to be taken care of if they wish to live.
I do too but only if they can be cured to get back on their feet to work to contribute positively to the rest of society.
Well that's where our opinions differ I suppose.

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December 31, 2015, 09:30:31 AM
 #28

I agree. The capitalistic bosses are lazy, they dont work. We must send them to Siberia for euthanasia.
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December 31, 2015, 10:39:00 AM
 #29

I agree. The capitalistic bosses are lazy, they dont work. We must send them to Siberia for euthanasia.

Gonna be a cold winter before it is over this new year.

Smiley
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December 31, 2015, 12:14:51 PM
 #30

I don't want to murder all those lazy guys, who don't want to work. If they don't want to engage themselves in any productive activity, then it is fine. Just their headache. But in my opinion, the governments should not encourage this sort of behavior, by handing out benefits and freebies. If someone doesn't want to work, then let him starve to death.

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December 31, 2015, 12:25:21 PM
 #31

Working is different than it used to be. It used to be, go out and get a job, or start a business. Taxes of all kinds make it impractical or impossible to do either.

Working has now become trying to beat the taxes and regulations. Because of this, more people are learning law. When it gets bad enough, the people will use law to change the government. It is happening now.

Smiley
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December 31, 2015, 12:33:01 PM
 #32

Firstly, I should say that I believe that anyone who is capable of work, should work. Current levels of benefits in the UK make it uneconomic for claimants to work, and this is why so many immigrants are working in the UK.

Now about benefits claimants. They do have a useful function in society, they are consumers. Without their purchases the economy would shrink. They provide a more useful role than bankers pushing up house prices and other investments as a result of quamtitive easing.

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December 31, 2015, 12:53:51 PM
 #33

Now about benefits claimants. They do have a useful function in society, they are consumers. Without their purchases the economy would shrink. They provide a more useful role than bankers pushing up house prices and other investments as a result of quamtitive easing.

This is an idiotic argument. If you just want consumers, then why can't you import a few million people from Nigeria or Somalia? People who just consume without providing any use to the society only do more harm than good. If these sort of people are removed from the welfare system, then it might be possible to lower the tax rates.

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December 31, 2015, 03:50:46 PM
 #34

We dont need to work. We can steal, like the bankers.  Grin
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December 31, 2015, 05:54:00 PM
 #35

We dont need to work. We can steal, like the bankers.  Grin
They call it "working" too.

All those who inherited wealth after some great grandma are also "working" by smoking cigars and talking about their estates. Are they more hard working people than some guy who gathers scrap metal to feed his family? On paper that gatherer is unemployed and does not pay taxes, but he's working 12 hours a day.

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December 31, 2015, 06:10:53 PM
 #36

We weren't meant to make money. We were meant to live, plant some fruit and eat the fruit of our labor.

Humans.... the only ones on earth who have to "pay" to live here. Well it won't be like that forever.

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December 31, 2015, 07:01:40 PM
 #37

All the stupid capitalists must read this book: Paul Lafargue - The Right To Be Lazy (1883)

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lafargue/1883/lazy/
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December 31, 2015, 07:05:42 PM
 #38

What is the point of forcing people who don't work to live?
We live in a death row (for a crime we didn't commit), trying to entertain our selves while we wait for our turn. There is no point of life, regardless of whether you work or not.

Same goes for people that simply do not want to work but want to ride government issued services. We hard working taxpayers are forced to pay our money to the homeless  government that sit around wanting people to take care of them. Half of them use these services for drugs  personal use. They are dead weight and do not need to be alive.
FTFY.  It doesn't matter what reasons there are, you always need to hand over your money to the authorities.  

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December 31, 2015, 07:38:52 PM
 #39

all the people i know who get welfare have jobs. rent on a 2 bedroom apartment where i live in london is double the minimum wage. yes you did read that correctly, someone doing an ordinary job would have to work 80 hours a week and not eat, use gas or electricity, just to be able to pay their rent. a lot of the folks who qualify for food stamps in america have jobs. the problem is not laziness it is mass immigration driving down wages and forcing housing costs up so that people can't afford to survive.

ban non citizens from owning property, block unskilled third world immigration, expel non productive minorities and the situation will improve.

Be radical, have principles, be absolute, be that which the bourgeoisie calls an extremist: give yourself without counting or calculating, don't accept what they call ‘the reality of life' and act in such a way that you won't be accepted by that kind of ‘life', never abandon the principle of struggle.
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December 31, 2015, 10:11:00 PM
 #40

Also, those two ladies do not contribute anything necessary. They're dead weight. If they died, nobody important would care. Trump certainly wouldn't. The only people that'd care would be the Instagram girls that copy the kardashians' every single move.

So kill artists too? If their work isn't immediately useful like graphic designers they should die? Many musicians are bad and almost no one knows them. They should die too? Their work isn't necessary either. And it's all subjective anyway. So why bother with it. What about people who do repetitive work that can be automated already? Like most services for example. Where most people work. Their work isn't needed anymore so if they don't find anything else they should all die? What about old people like ace45954 said? May have contributed all their lives to society. But if they stop at some point they must die? Or is it only when their money runs out and they need help from others? Can't be. Otherwise the rich never need to be useful to society like you want. You're making feudalism look good by comparison. Living in ant colonies isn't for humans.

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