Re: [LTC-GLOBAL] - ART - building a open art studio [week 32]

[EskimoBob]

I had a very promising meeting today with few local artists. We are going to meet again in about 2 weeks and if everything works out, I am going to order the required hardware and sign up our first first client.

Cheers!

PS! Sorry for the trolls, we got here.

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[EskimoBob]

https://www.litecoinglobal.com/security/ART

Code:

2012-12-22 18:48 	Ł 104.083434 	45234 	COMPLETE

Thank you for supporting the project. Enjoy your holidays and be nice to a random person.

[EskimoBob]

Good news: 50K shares are sold.

[EskimoBob]

Div is going out today, at 18:55 GMT

[EskimoBob]

Hi
Little update for ya'll.
The extended holiday is over and I had 2 meetings today.
#1 One of the key persons was missing so no decision was made. We are going to continue next week and hopefully we can close the deal for good.
#2 I was in contact with another small shop today and we are going to meet next week (week 02). This is my backup plan

Cheers!

[EskimoBob]

We are moving forward.
Customer is currently rebuilding his workshop and hopefully I know soon (days), what model I have to order (it's up to ventilation and wiring spec).
After that, I'll have the numbers ready  - rented what and for how much.
Equipment will arrive in about 4 weeks from the day of ordering. I'll try to speed this up unless it will cost us extra.

[EskimoBob]

Hi, posted some numbers to http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,980.msg5730.html#msg5730

Now, to more exiting news.
I received the offers for the equipment and we are going to make a decision tomorrow 15.01.2013.

First order is for a mid size high-fire electric kiln.
This 5kW puppy runs on 400V and 10A and has a top temperature 1320°C (2408 of of those °F thingies). BTW, liquid lava is only 700-1200°C. We will be working mostly at 1285-1295°C and sometimes above (top temp. for the firing session)
This is a German built kiln with a fancy controller - this is exactly what is needed
I have several offers. When we have selected the final model/seller, I'll post some kiln pr0n for your pleasure.

See you at https://www.litecoinglobal.com/security/ART

[gabbynot]

Where exactly is this, anyway?

[EskimoBob]

First, let me post some of that kiln pr0n I promised.
The first one is a is a mid size (60 L or 2.118 cubic foot) kiln, that gets us moving forward and start offering custom ceramics firing service to local hobby artists. Good news is, I have some potential clients lined up already so all we need now is this kiln to arrive.   
Sorry, this is just a catalog image.


and if you open a lid...


When it arrives and is all set up and ready to go, I'll post some "real" images.

(From http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,980.msg5879.html#msg5879)

EskimoBob, I am very excited by your news of progress! I am a shareholder and was curious as to whether you
intended to continue the small dividends until the equipment was received

Thank you for your support.
The whole idea of dividends has somehow got warped in BTC/LTC community. 
Dividend is not something that gets paid directly from revenue (In business, revenue or turnover is income that a company receives from its normal business activities, usually from the sale of goods and services to customers. )
Yes, there are trust issues in btc/ltc community and this is probably the main cause, why revenue gets distributed to share holders ASAP. I can see how this works in mining Co's  where "produced product" (LTC or BTC) is distributed on weekly bases and some is kept as reserve.
There are Co's that raised coin for project X and before this project has earned a single penny, they start paying divs from coin raised in IPO. I am talking about equity (shares) and not about debt (bond, loan).
Sure, I love to receive something back ASAP but will this actually increase the value of the Co and it's shares I hold? The short answer is: "No, no at all"

Let me me attempt to clarify what is happening with a simple example. NB! We are talking about equity (stock) and not about debt (bond etc)!
Lets say that You and I have decided to start a project and we need 100 coins to buy equipment and hire some experts to do something. As a result of this, we have a product we sell and finally we make some profit (total income minus total expenses). 
Now, when the coin is raised, we have 100 coins and we can say, that this is the equity we have to work with to achieve our goal.  For simplicity, lets forget all the other mumbo-jumbo, that can be used to increase the value of this Co on paper.

Right. What happens, if you and I pay ourselves a 2 coin dividend BEFORE we have invested the coin to equipment  and into all the other stuff, we need to produce a final product, sell it and hopefully make profit? 
We had 100 to work with, now we have 100-2=98 
As you can see, we have decreased our Co value before we have even really started. Our starting capital is lower of what we needed in the first place. 

What has happened in BTC/LTC community, is that people have mixed up how debt and equity investments work and this keeps causing confusion.
If ART was a bond (basically a loan with a huge payment at the end), then monthly payment to bond holders, no matter what really happened, is expected and fixed for the duration of that loan.
This is why a typical bonds are categorized as a "fixed income" investments -  you are guaranteed a fixed size payment in regular intervals.

Every time we take money from ART, and send it back to us (we, the share holders), ART has lost a tiny part of it's value buy giving up a portion of it's start up capital that was raised for acquiring equipment to build a business.

... realize that there may be insufficient funds to both purchase the kiln and provide divvies, but I wanted to ask
since it had been several weeks since the last distribution. Thanks and I look forward to your continued success!
Regards, Rustyh17

Sorry, my answer got a bit longer than I expected but I hope this answers your question.

[EskimoBob]

Someone asked for financial report for the past months.
All numbers are and will be published here http://tinyurl.com/art-stats . If I find a better way to do it, you will be informed.
January numbers will be ready around week 06. I need to figure out, can I use kMyMoney to generate meaningful reports and if not, I'll have to try my luck with gnucash in virtualized environment (to keep all that Gnome blahh off my system)

[EskimoBob]

Another update.
I received a confirmation that our order is processed and the kiln will arrive on week 08 (18-22. Feb. 2013)

I have no idea how this can take so damn long but I guess donkeys, horses and boats must be involved.

[usagi]

Someone asked for financial report for the past months.
All numbers are and will be published here http://tinyurl.com/art-stats . If I find a better way to do it, you will be informed.
January numbers will be ready around week 06. I need to figure out, can I use kMyMoney to generate meaningful reports and if not, I'll have to try my luck with gnucash in virtualized environment (to keep all that Gnome blahh off my system)

It was me, and I changed my vote to yes because you published the financial statement. I am also a shareholder.

But there are a few things I don't understand. You've ordered a Kiln and to my knowledge you've sold several mugs (and maybe other things). I don't see any of those listed on your financial statement. My main problem with this is you have stated clearly you will "...be publishing our monthly statements in forum and follow typical bookkeeping rules." Well, thank you for publishing a financial statement, but I don't understand why you haven't followed typical bookkeeping rules. You haven't listed any of the company's assets in your financial report. In fact it appears as if the only assets of the company are litecoins, and the only operation of your company is to trade it's own security.

I'm not saying you didn't order a kiln or that you didn't sell any mugs. I'm just asking when you will prepare a proper financial report as you've said you will, which includes all the company's assets including sales and the kiln. I need this in order to calculate a value for your company. Also, I admit it, I have a certain morbid fascination with how you plan to value your company now that you have purchased hardware which is already worth less than what you paid for it (a kiln). It would be humorous to see it listed at purchase price, even though that is what I'd expect anyone to do in any normal situation.

Also, I'm just curious, you said "Equipment will be insured against theft or destruction by fire or similar incident." Have you insured the studio against fire and/or theft yet? Again, I am asking because I don't see the insurance cost in the financial statements.

[EskimoBob]

Someone asked for financial report for the past months.
All numbers are and will be published here http://tinyurl.com/art-stats . If I find a better way to do it, you will be informed.
January numbers will be ready around week 06. I need to figure out, can I use kMyMoney to generate meaningful reports and if not, I'll have to try my luck with gnucash in virtualized environment (to keep all that Gnome blahh off my system)

It was me, and I changed my vote to yes because you published the financial statement. I am also a shareholder.

But there are a few things I don't understand. You've ordered a Kiln and to my knowledge you've sold several mugs (and maybe other things). I don't see any of those listed on your financial statement. My main problem with this is you have stated clearly you will "...be publishing our monthly statements in forum and follow typical bookkeeping rules." Well, thank you for publishing a financial statement, but I don't understand why you haven't followed typical bookkeeping rules. You haven't listed any of the company's assets in your financial report. In fact it appears as if the only assets of the company are litecoins, and the only operation of your company is to trade it's own security.

As you recall, the idea of how to finance the project has evolved and gone trough two (2) major stages, with several intermediate steps.  
1) First, I was going for a crowd funding it and if this works out, we list the stuff acquire and participants in CF will receive a number of virtual shares or tokens. This did not work out as expected because I did not want to wait for unknown amount of time when the CF site was up and running.
Who bought the mug, got it delivered + promised shares issued in version 2. Thank you, and let me say this again, your trust was important to me!

2) Second stage started, when I realized that OT and CF are out for the now, because those ideas/technologies are way too experimental for now.
Litecoinglobal opened and I decided to go for virtual shares in LTC land. I like LTC for multiple reasons and I have supported it from day one.
Now, the BTC paid for the mug was converted to LTC and shares sent to participants in stage one.

I'm not saying you didn't order a kiln or that you didn't sell any mugs. I'm just asking when you will prepare a proper financial report as you've said you will, which includes all the company's assets including sales and the kiln. I need this in order to calculate a value for your company.

Publishing the end of 2012 and weeks 01-03 of 2013 statements, there was no tangible assets. All we had was a "pile" of LTC (see line "LTC received") and that's it.

Also, I admit it, I have a certain morbid fascination with how you plan to value your company now that you have purchased hardware which is already worth less than what you paid for it (a kiln). It would be humorous to see it listed at purchase price, even though that is what I'd expect anyone to do in any normal situation.

If you have done any book keeping or owned a business in the real world, you must know that all the equipment is added to the books at purchase price. There is nothing humorous about it. BTW, actually EVERYTHING a company buys, will be added to the books at purchase price and not some arbitrary "value" that looks good. Depreciation usually kicks in when equipment arrives and is used.
Depreciation will be calculated annually. For equipment like this, 5 years or 20% a year sounds about right.
I am going to use straight line method without residual value. So, by the end of the 2013, this kiln has "lost" 1/12 less than 1/5 of it's purchase price and is valued in the books at lower price.
If we take good care of it, we can use it for way more than 5 years and I am not surprised, if it's resale value is 35-45% of it's purchase price.

Also, I'm just curious, you said "Equipment will be insured against theft or destruction by fire or similar incident." Have you insured the studio against fire and/or theft yet? Again, I am asking because I don't see the insurance cost in the financial statements.

Yes, equipment will be insured separately unless it's covered by the studio insurance. I'll find that out in following weeks. I need to get some quotes for this anyways.

[EskimoBob]

There is a need for additional equipment so I like to propose a secondary offering.
Lets make it short and sweet and only available for current shareholders.

Here is an idea, how to make it happen:

this is a preliminary draft

I like to invite you to submit bids for the second stage in our project.
As you know, first kiln is on it's way and will be here on 8th week. There is a strong demand for additional equipment and we will like to release additional shares, up to 50K, to the market so the equipment can be purchased ASAP.
This is a secondary offering and no new shares will be created.

Minimum accepted bid will be X.XX?, maximum bid for the current shareholders will be Y.YY <-- or we can do it without max bid
All bids below X.XX will be discarded

 1) All bids, over 200? shares @ Y.YY LTC per share, will be filled first.

If this secondary offering is oversubscribed (total bids received are over 50K shares):
 - Highest priced bids are filled first at bidders proposed price
 - Larger order, at the same price, will be filled first
 - Orders below Y.YY will be reduced (proportionally) until orders at higher price will be filled
 - Orders @ Y.YY will be reduced (proportionally) until all orders are filled <--- not really sure about that one
 
Reducing orders will require rounding off the number of shares to the closest whole number.


Send me your bid in following format:
your e-mail; number of shares; price per share

NB! You have to be on shareholders list to make a valid bid and remain as shareholder until the end of bidding (02.02.2013 12.10 UTC).
If you cancel your bid, you have to pay 15% fee from the bids value. (I think this is fair)
 

Comments are welcome. I like to get started with this ASAP because heavy equipment deliveries take forever. 

[Deprived]

There is a need for additional equipment so I like to propose a secondary offering.
Lets make it short and sweet and only available for current shareholders.

Here is an idea, how to make it happen:

this is a preliminary draft

I like to invite you to submit bids for the second stage in our project.
As you know, first kiln is on it's way and will be here on 8th week. There is a strong demand for additional equipment and we will like to release additional shares, up to 50K, to the market so the equipment can be purchased ASAP.
This is a secondary offering and no new shares will be created.

Minimum accepted bid will be X.XX?, maximum bid for the current shareholders will be Y.YY <-- or we can do it without max bid
All bids below X.XX will be discarded

 1) All bids, over 200? shares @ Y.YY LTC per share, will be filled first.

If this secondary offering is oversubscribed (total bids received are over 50K shares):
 - Highest priced bids are filled first at bidders proposed price
 - Larger order, at the same price, will be filled first
 - Orders below Y.YY will be reduced (proportionally) until orders at higher price will be filled
 - Orders @ Y.YY will be reduced (proportionally) until all orders are filled <--- not really sure about that one
 
Reducing orders will require rounding off the number of shares to the closest whole number.


Send me your bid in following format:
your e-mail; number of shares; price per share

NB! You have to be on shareholders list to make a valid bid and remain as shareholder until the end of bidding (02.02.2013 12.10 UTC).
If you cancel your bid, you have to pay 15% fee from the bids value. (I think this is fair)
 

Comments are welcome. I like to get started with this ASAP because heavy equipment deliveries take forever. 

Limiting it to current share-holders is pointless - as anyone can spend 1 LTC and become a share-holder.  If you want to give first shot to current investors then you need to restrict what they can bid on based on their current holdings - otherwise it's entirely pointless.

So first you'd fill orders up to the number of shares they currently hold, then up to 2* shares they currently hold etc.

[EskimoBob]

...
Limiting it to current share-holders is pointless - as anyone can spend 1 LTC and become a share-holder.  If you want to give first shot to current investors then you need to restrict what they can bid on based on their current holdings - otherwise it's entirely pointless.

So first you'd fill orders up to the number of shares they currently hold, then up to 2* shares they currently hold etc.

Thank you for your input but I must say, I have hard time agreeing with you on this Maybe it's too early in the morning ...or is it still too late at night?

I really do not see, how limiting bidding to a number of shares you currently hold (or multiplies of) will help ART in placing the secondary offer - bring additional coin to the project. Sure, we can use that to decide who gets what if this offer gets oversubscribed.
If this limitation causes sudden price increase, it only helps short term speculators and ART gains almost nothing from that.
When shares change hands, investors "right" to bid chances too and coin that can be invested directly to ART, goes actually back to current short term shareholders. Liquidity is good but in this particular case, it will not help ART. 
Sure, we can hope that short term investors take the coin and place new bids in secondary placement... but they have just decreased the "right" or more like "chance" for biding by selling their existing shares.
Looking at this placement from ART's point of view, coin from IPO is already invested to hardware - turned to a tangible asset. So, in context of secondary offer, it's not that important what you bought form fist offer. Size of your bid and price, for the secondary offer, matters and it helps directly ART and you, as a long term shareholder.

Cheers.

[MPOE-PR]

So how much is the book value of this thing under par by now?

[gabbynot]

So how much is the book value of this thing under par by now?

It should be up even if he did nothing except convert initial funds to fiat; LTC was around 7.5 cents/coin when the IPO was going on, now it's only around 6.4 cents/coin.

[EskimoBob]

So how much is the book value of this thing under par by now?

You have all the data, please dazzle us with all your brilliance

[Deprived]

...
Limiting it to current share-holders is pointless - as anyone can spend 1 LTC and become a share-holder.  If you want to give first shot to current investors then you need to restrict what they can bid on based on their current holdings - otherwise it's entirely pointless.

So first you'd fill orders up to the number of shares they currently hold, then up to 2* shares they currently hold etc.

Thank you for your input but I must say, I have hard time agreeing with you on this Maybe it's too early in the morning ...or is it still too late at night?

I really do not see, how limiting bidding to a number of shares you currently hold (or multiplies of) will help ART in placing the secondary offer - bring additional coin to the project. Sure, we can use that to decide who gets what if this offer gets oversubscribed.
If this limitation causes sudden price increase, it only helps short term speculators and ART gains almost nothing from that.
When shares change hands, investors "right" to bid chances too and coin that can be invested directly to ART, goes actually back to current short term shareholders. Liquidity is good but in this particular case, it will not help ART. 
Sure, we can hope that short term investors take the coin and place new bids in secondary placement... but they have just decreased the "right" or more like "chance" for biding by selling their existing shares.
Looking at this placement from ART's point of view, coin from IPO is already invested to hardware - turned to a tangible asset. So, in context of secondary offer, it's not that important what you bought form fist offer. Size of your bid and price, for the secondary offer, matters and it helps directly ART and you, as a long term shareholder.

Cheers.

If you apply that line of reasoning then there's also no point in restricting the new offering to existing shareholders - if more people can bid then you'll get more (and higher) offers.  Either make it a public offering or make it rights-restricted (where its a per-share offer).  Allowing anyone who pays 1 LTC for a share to bid offers neither the best price (public offering) or rewards early investors.