Can we just stop with the block size panic crap?

[JackH]

keepdoing - Account registered in August 2015

CIYAM - Probably one of the most knowledgeable people around here when it comes to the scripting language and op_codes of the Bitcoin protocol.

Funny how the people that understands Bitcoin initimately want to keep to the suggested roadmap, while new accounts, barely older than one year, only post about blocksizes and how important it is to increase the blocksize, in the name of freedom.

keepdoing -  since you are so familiar with the inner workings of Bitcoin, could you construct a raw tx for us showing how you would commit a transaction to the blockchain, and maybe give us an example of different transaction sizes?

Seeing how you think of yourself as being familiar with the protocol construction of Bitcoin, and having a well informed oppinion about the blocksize, it should be a walk in the park for you to explain transactions for us as well.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

keepdoing - Account registered in August 2015

CIYAM - Probably one of the most knowledgeable people around here when it comes to the scripting language and op_codes of the Bitcoin protocol.

Funny how the people that understands Bitcoin initimately want to keep to the suggested roadmap, while new accounts, barely older than one year, only post about blocksizes and how important it is to increase the blocksize, in the name of freedom.

keepdoing also has an odd obsession with Craig Wright. Very peculiar indeed.

Edit: More like keepgoing. Hehe. Isn't guys?



Ya!

[Palinanv]

You should only worry about something that is worthy of worry. For I do not know what that could be of, I still support meaningful and genuine worry. The blocksize as I know it isn't too much to mind but you must completely respect another's concern. That's just the way I see it.

[Meuh6879]

3. if the coffee shop makes you wait for it to confirm to avoid malleability issues

no shop, in the world of HELL, wait for the confirmation.

VISA/MASTERCARD need 4 days to confirm in the best way ... and 8 days in difficult conditions.

[franky1]

3. if the coffee shop makes you wait for it to confirm to avoid malleability issues

no shop, in the world of HELL, wait for the confirmation.

VISA/MASTERCARD need 4 days to confirm in the best way ... and 8 days in difficult conditions.

thats because visa has guarantee's.. if there are no funds its INSTANTLY declined.. so that means that even if it does take 4 days to settle(confirm). it dont matter as there is no malleability to worry about..

once bitcoin sorts out malleability then retailers will be happy to accept 0 confirms and wont care it it takes 10 minutes or 1 hour to settle as they are guaranteed to get paid.. just like visa

[ATguy]

Bitcoin is not suitable for "coffees" and why should it be (as practically no-one in the world is paid in Bitcoin)?

What Bitcoin is very suitable for is "remittance' (sending money overseas) yet so far it has virtually no market share in that sphere (which it should dominate).

Can we start focusing on remittance rather than coffees?

Do you even realize you want Bitcoin to be something different than it meant to be since the start ? The problem is bitcoin development is overtaken with devs with so different vision where Bitcoin should go versus original Satoshi plans.

Why is it not good for "coffees"?

1. malleability makes it easy to get a free coffee, so there is reluctance to accept zero confirms
2. if you want to get the coffee value confirmed in 10 minutes it will cost you 4 cents
3. if the coffee shop makes you wait for it to confirm to avoid malleability issues, then your waiting in a line at the coffee desk for 10 minutes, while 20 other people have paid via NFC debit cards or applepay and already left with their coffee. and you start to wonder.. is bitcoin really better right now..

Yes, instead of strenghtening zero confirmation transactions (which works relatively reliable today), new plan is RBF (replace by fee) which makes zero confirmation transactions not useable because double spending zero confirmation transactions will become trivial soon, thanks again to current Bitcoin devs steering the Bitcoin to their desired path of Bitcoin used as remitance or store of value only, both with higher fees - but who will use such Bitcoin in first place and why store value there when you will need convert to fiat or other real usage crypto and give fees to centralized exchanges for such conversion

once bitcoin sorts out malleability then retailers will be happy to accept 0 confirms and wont care it it takes 10 minutes or 1 hour to settle as they are guaranteed to get paid

Never going to happen with RBF (replace by fee)

[plorph]

Bitcoin is not suitable for "coffees" and why should it be (as practically no-one in the world is paid in Bitcoin)?

What Bitcoin is very suitable for is "remittance' (sending money overseas) yet so far it has virtually no market share in that sphere (which it should dominate).

Can we start focusing on remittance rather than coffees?

Do you even realize you want Bitcoin to be something different than it meant to be since the start ? The problem is bitcoin development is overtaken with devs with so different vision where Bitcoin should go versus original Satoshi plans.

Yeah, I'm saddened a bit to see people saying its not good for coffees, as that is what I thought was one of the major benefits of bitcoin, the low transaction fees enable more economic flow, which includes many small purchases. "Not suitable for coffees" seems like a different coin altogether.

[Cconvert2G36]

-snip-
once bitcoin sorts out malleability then retailers will be happy to accept 0 confirms and wont care it it takes 10 minutes or 1 hour to settle as they are guaranteed to get paid.. just like visa

As ATguy mentions, RBF will fully deprecate 0 conf, making double spending a transaction a one button affair available to all.

The dream of in-person retail BTC payments, after existing as a brief twinkle in our eye, will be fully sacrificed on the altar of centrally planned production quotas and artificial scarcity.

Bitcoin is wealth storage and transfer for the wealthy and as a settlement layer for banks cutting edge payment processors. Poors may use Doge.  

[JackH]

Bitcoin is not suitable for "coffees" and why should it be (as practically no-one in the world is paid in Bitcoin)?

What Bitcoin is very suitable for is "remittance' (sending money overseas) yet so far it has virtually no market share in that sphere (which it should dominate).

Can we start focusing on remittance rather than coffees?

Do you even realize you want Bitcoin to be something different than it meant to be since the start ? The problem is bitcoin development is overtaken with devs with so different vision where Bitcoin should go versus original Satoshi plans.

Yeah, I'm saddened a bit to see people saying its not good for coffees, as that is what I thought was one of the major benefits of bitcoin, the low transaction fees enable more economic flow, which includes many small purchases. "Not suitable for coffees" seems like a different coin altogether.

What Bitcoin wallet are you using at the moment?

[plorph]

What Bitcoin wallet are you using at the moment?

Core, why?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

-snip-
once bitcoin sorts out malleability then retailers will be happy to accept 0 confirms and wont care it it takes 10 minutes or 1 hour to settle as they are guaranteed to get paid.. just like visa

As ATguy mentions, RBF will fully deprecate 0 conf, making double spending a transaction a one button affair available to all.

The dream of in-person retail BTC payments, after existing as a brief twinkle in our eye, will be fully sacrificed on the altar of centrally planned production quotas and artificial scarcity.

Bitcoin is wealth storage and transfer for the wealthy and as a settlement layer for banks cutting edge payment processors. Poors may use Doge.  

I guess I can appreciate that.

[helloeverybody]

After reading so many things on the blocksize debate I'm not even sure if there is an answer to it.  Can't please everyone whatever 's done.

[JackH]

What Bitcoin wallet are you using at the moment?

Core, why?

Core as in Bitcoin-QT?

[plorph]

What Bitcoin wallet are you using at the moment?

Core, why?

Core as in Bitcoin-QT?

yes

[franky1]

-snip-
once bitcoin sorts out malleability then retailers will be happy to accept 0 confirms and wont care it it takes 10 minutes or 1 hour to settle as they are guaranteed to get paid.. just like visa

As ATguy mentions, RBF will fully deprecate 0 conf, making double spending a transaction a one button affair available to all.

The dream of in-person retail BTC payments, after existing as a brief twinkle in our eye, will be fully sacrificed on the altar of centrally planned production quotas and artificial scarcity.

Bitcoin is wealth storage and transfer for the wealthy and as a settlement layer for banks cutting edge payment processors. Poors may use Doge.  

not exactly.. infact by making it easier to undo transactions or replace them.. will increase the likelihood of a retailer seeing one transaction. and then once the customer has left the retailer before 10 minutes. the customer simply undoes or changes the transaction adding a higher fee to a second transaction that pays himself..

for a retailer to retain the first transaction the RBF requires the retailer the ability to change values to allow a higher fee to the first transaction to force miners to accept that transaction instead of the second transaction the customer pushes out after leaving the retailer (trying to double spend to make the retailer tx void)

the problem is that if we have a tx that is
1customerbitcoin address (1btc) -> 1Retailerbitcoin address (0.01btc)
                                                  -> 1customerbitcoin address (0.9899btc)     (remember its not 0.99 as the fee is done by not giving all change back)

if a retailer can change the values without needing to have that customers signature.. then the retailer can do this too
1customerbitcoin address (1btc) -> 1Retailerbitcoin address (0.9999btc).
                                                  -> 1customerbitcoin address (0btc)

if anyone can change values without signatures.. then bitcoin is screwed.. and so without screwing the system. only the customer can change values which means a customer can do
1customerbitcoin address (1btc) -> 1Retailerbitcoin address (0btc)
                                                  -> 1customerbitcoin address (0.9999btc)
to ensure he gets his money back, while sipping his free coffee

[cellard]

After reading so many things on the blocksize debate I'm not even sure if there is an answer to it.  Can't please everyone whatever 's done.

This is the point to be honest, no matter what they do, there will always be a part of people that's not happy with it, that's human, so I say keep nodes decentralized as first priority and keep working in the good direction for this to happen.

[jonald_fyookball]

It is becoming apparent that there are paid shills participating in every topic to do with the block size debate.

Apparently Mike Hearn simply cannot let a "dead horse" die.

I do not work for any company (other than my own) and am not sponsored to make any statement but I will make this statement.

Bitcoin is not suitable for "coffees" and why should it be (as practically no-one in the world is paid in Bitcoin)?

What Bitcoin is very suitable for is "remittance' (sending money overseas) yet so far it has virtually no market share in that sphere (which it should dominate).

Can we start focusing on remittance rather than coffees?

Paid shills...lol umm yeahhh. right.

anyway i disagree with you.  Bitcoin is perfectly suitable for coffees.

[CIYAM]

anyway i disagree with you.  Bitcoin is perfectly suitable for coffees.

Apparently it is just because you say it is - just like the world is really flat.

[jonald_fyookball]

anyway i disagree with you.  Bitcoin is perfectly suitable for coffees.

Apparently it is just because you say it is - just like the world is really flat.

It's fine for any size transaction as amounts large and small are supported
by the protocol and we have seen it in action in both.

The burden of proof is on you to if you want to assert its somehow "unsuitable for coffee".
Appears that its your own personal opinion based on your own biases of what you think
Bitcoin should be.

[CIYAM]

It's fine for any size transaction as amounts large and small are supported
by the protocol and we have seen it in action in both.

It is not fine for any size transaction and I'm surprised you would make such a silly statement.

Can you make a transaction with 0.00000001 BTC?

(and I mean literally yourself not a miner)

It has also been pointed out hundreds of times that you can't rely upon zero confirmations so your coffee is going to go cold before you will be allowed to drink it (and if changes are pushed that would allow for tx replacement with a fee then it would be child's play to cheat your coffee vendor).