Bitcoin Forum
May 03, 2024, 11:05:02 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: bitcoin "unlimited" seeks review  (Read 16056 times)
Cconvert2G36
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 250


View Profile
January 11, 2016, 06:56:35 AM
 #201

When the time comes that a block >1MB is mined, and built upon... it's a safe bet that you've had plenty of warning.
1714734302
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714734302

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714734302
Reply with quote  #2

1714734302
Report to moderator
1714734302
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714734302

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714734302
Reply with quote  #2

1714734302
Report to moderator
1714734302
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714734302

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714734302
Reply with quote  #2

1714734302
Report to moderator
Activity + Trust + Earned Merit == The Most Recognized Users on Bitcointalk
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1714734302
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714734302

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714734302
Reply with quote  #2

1714734302
Report to moderator
iCEBREAKER
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072


Crypto is the separation of Power and State.


View Profile WWW
January 11, 2016, 07:24:49 AM
 #202

When the time comes that a block >1MB is mined, and built upon... it's a safe bet that you've had plenty of warning.

Last year, the XTurds said that was going to happen sometime this month (Jan 2016).

That didn't happen.  LOL.   Grin

Come at us bro.  But don't complain when you get rekt like Stannis on the Blackwater.



██████████
█████████████████
██████████████████████
█████████████████████████
████████████████████████████
████
████████████████████████
█████
███████████████████████████
█████
███████████████████████████
██████
████████████████████████████
██████
████████████████████████████
██████
████████████████████████████
██████
███████████████████████████
██████
██████████████████████████
█████
███████████████████████████
█████████████
██████████████
████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
██████████████████████
█████████████████
██████████

Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
Is Dash a scam?
Cconvert2G36
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 250


View Profile
January 11, 2016, 07:36:15 AM
 #203


Come at us bro.  But don't complain when you get rekt like Stannis on the Blackwater.


Thanks Joffrey, but you may find that it's not only Stannis that challenges your rule.
iCEBREAKER
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072


Crypto is the separation of Power and State.


View Profile WWW
January 11, 2016, 07:49:26 AM
 #204


Come at us bro.  But don't complain when you get rekt like Stannis on the Blackwater.


Thanks Joffrey Tyrion, but you may find that it's not only Stannis that challenges your rule.

FTFY  Cool


██████████
█████████████████
██████████████████████
█████████████████████████
████████████████████████████
████
████████████████████████
█████
███████████████████████████
█████
███████████████████████████
██████
████████████████████████████
██████
████████████████████████████
██████
████████████████████████████
██████
███████████████████████████
██████
██████████████████████████
█████
███████████████████████████
█████████████
██████████████
████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
██████████████████████
█████████████████
██████████

Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
Is Dash a scam?
YarkoL
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 996
Merit: 1012


View Profile
January 11, 2016, 07:50:01 AM
 #205

Exactly my point proof of work can not be Sybil attacked, and under Bitcoin Unlimited the blocksize limit is determined by the economic majority through proof of work. Not the nodes like you claim, therefore BU is not vulnerable to such an attack vector.

BU nodes do not accept the longest chain if it disagrees with their idea of validity (e.g. block size), until that longest chain is a sufficient number of blocks ahead. This creates forks that will persist for up to an hour or even longer, and can be used for attacks. Many merchant systems currently use 1-3 confirms on Bitcoin and will either have to change that to a higher number or be easily attacked.


This would be problematic if a merchant kept her excessive block size limit
constantly below the actual block size that is being accepted by the majority on
the network.

However in real life we can expect the consensual block size limit to update
itself infrequently, thus allowing ample time for the users to adjust.

I think many (well-intentioned) BU critics have hard time of letting go
from concentrating exclusively on how a particular implementation
works, to include the social-economical activity of the players involved:
users, merchants, full node operators, miners, devs.



“God does not play dice"
smooth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198



View Profile
January 11, 2016, 08:03:48 AM
 #206

Exactly my point proof of work can not be Sybil attacked, and under Bitcoin Unlimited the blocksize limit is determined by the economic majority through proof of work. Not the nodes like you claim, therefore BU is not vulnerable to such an attack vector.

BU nodes do not accept the longest chain if it disagrees with their idea of validity (e.g. block size), until that longest chain is a sufficient number of blocks ahead. This creates forks that will persist for up to an hour or even longer, and can be used for attacks. Many merchant systems currently use 1-3 confirms on Bitcoin and will either have to change that to a higher number or be easily attacked.


This would be problematic if a merchant kept her excessive block size limit
constantly below the actual block size that is being accepted by the majority on
the network.

However in real life we can expect the consensual block size limit to update
itself infrequently, thus allowing ample time for the users to adjust.

I think many (well-intentioned) BU critics have hard time of letting go
from concentrating exclusively on how a particular implementation
works, to include the social-economical activity of the players involved:
users, merchants, full node operators, miners, devs.

That's exactly my point. You can't rely on the non-Sybil properties of a proof-of-work longest chain. You have to make other complex arguments about socio-econmical activity and once you do that it is easy for Sybil attacks and various other forms of social engineering attacks to sneak back in.

BU may be a perfectly good approach for cryptocurrency, taken broadly, but it doesn't work the same way as Bitcoin and can't legitimately claim to, nor rely on Bitcoin's established security model or properties.
YarkoL
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 996
Merit: 1012


View Profile
January 11, 2016, 08:53:24 AM
 #207


BU may be a perfectly good approach for cryptocurrency, taken broadly, but it doesn't work the same way as Bitcoin and can't legitimately claim to, nor rely on Bitcoin's established security model or properties.


I agree insofar that the original model attempts to
fix security and consensus issues entirely on code level.

But things have changed, and "one cpu, one vote" does
not apply anymore. Neither the Core approach or BU approach
to dealing with the blocksize issue can be said to exist
inherently as a property of Bitcoin. Although I personally
feel that the latter approach is more in line with the
"philosophy" or "vision".

But I'm all for bridging the gap between the technology
and socio-economics with programmatic solutions that
can assist users in deciding the block size settings and
distinguish between honest players and sybil attackers.
For instance, statistical analysis of advertised block settings
on the network, and an option of registering settings on the blockchain.

“God does not play dice"
smooth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198



View Profile
January 11, 2016, 09:10:32 AM
Last edit: January 11, 2016, 09:34:16 AM by smooth
 #208


BU may be a perfectly good approach for cryptocurrency, taken broadly, but it doesn't work the same way as Bitcoin and can't legitimately claim to, nor rely on Bitcoin's established security model or properties.


I agree insofar that the original model attempts to
fix security and consensus issues entirely on code level.

But things have changed, and "one cpu, one vote" does
not apply anymore. Neither the Core approach or BU approach
to dealing with the blocksize issue can be said to exist
inherently as a property of Bitcoin. Although I personally
feel that the latter approach is more in line with the
"philosophy" or "vision".

Bitcoin's longest chain rule is still Sybil-proof unconditionally and by fairly simple reasoning, regardless of the wider context of Core's approach to development. BU's is not.

That doesn't mean that Bitcoin is the best approach. It also doesn't mean that BU is unsound. It just means you can't correctly claim that BU obviously has the same longest chain proof-of-work security properties as Bitcoin. Because it does not.

You have to reason about its properties independently, and justify their soundness. And mostly not to me but to the rest of the world. I think you will fail, but my opinion means little.
iCEBREAKER
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072


Crypto is the separation of Power and State.


View Profile WWW
January 25, 2017, 03:30:47 AM
 #209

When the time comes that a block >1MB is mined, and built upon... it's a safe bet that you've had plenty of warning.

* Le One Year Later *

Despite all the huffing and puffing, no block >1MB has been mined by Bitcoin_Unlimited.

And having been rekt like Stannis on the Blackwater exactly as predicted, Cconvert2G36 no longer posts here.

Poor thing.  I did warn him Maester Satoshi's wildfire burns something fierce.  But he was too fucking arrogant to listen to his superiors.


Artist's impression of contentious hard fork


██████████
█████████████████
██████████████████████
█████████████████████████
████████████████████████████
████
████████████████████████
█████
███████████████████████████
█████
███████████████████████████
██████
████████████████████████████
██████
████████████████████████████
██████
████████████████████████████
██████
███████████████████████████
██████
██████████████████████████
█████
███████████████████████████
█████████████
██████████████
████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
██████████████████████
█████████████████
██████████

Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
Is Dash a scam?
iCEBREAKER
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072


Crypto is the separation of Power and State.


View Profile WWW
January 25, 2017, 06:38:54 AM
 #210

If you want info about Bitcoin Unlimited you should check out their forum (https://bitco.in/forum/forums/bitcoin-unlimited.15/). Most of their discussions is there, including technical and not.
best idea :d

Frap.doc, by far the most prolific poster there, rage-quit BU's rump forum months ago and will never return.

Quote from:  Roy Badami, Jan 4, 2017

LMAO

At this point, Bitcoin_Unlimited has more lapsed than active members.

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


██████████
█████████████████
██████████████████████
█████████████████████████
████████████████████████████
████
████████████████████████
█████
███████████████████████████
█████
███████████████████████████
██████
████████████████████████████
██████
████████████████████████████
██████
████████████████████████████
██████
███████████████████████████
██████
██████████████████████████
█████
███████████████████████████
█████████████
██████████████
████████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
██████████████████████
█████████████████
██████████

Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
Is Dash a scam?
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!