We already live in an AnCap world

[davout]

My new book "Trollitics" is about to hit the shelves, let me treat you to the first chapter "We already live in an AnCap world".

It's already being run by corporations that have their own private laws, their own private armies, their own private property.
You just call them "governments".
U mad ancaps?

But seriously, u mad ancaps?

[myrkul]

My new book "Trollitics" is about to hit the shelves, let me treat you to the first chapter "We already live in an AnCap world".

It's already being run by corporations that have their own private laws, their own private armies, their own private property.
You just call them "governments".
U mad ancaps?

But seriously, u mad ancaps?

No, just sad and disappointed that this old turd is getting trotted out again.

[Dalkore]

Myrkul is under the impression that we can have totally voluntary societies that have voluntary governments which will be run effectively with all private 3rd party services.

I am under the impression that you do need some form of coercion to get a large body of people to do what is in their best interest but only so far that they are not infringing on the people around them and that certain services must be provide through some collective institution that is not private but public and is mandatory.   

I say mandatory because people have a habit of putting things off until you needed them yesterday (procrastination).  I also believe these services are few and that power should existing regionally with very limited push to a body that handles large areas like a nation.  Basic Human Rights, Rule of Law, Precedent, Free Speech, Dissent and innocence before guilt are also key.  Also I would only allow corporation for limited periods of time and not extend limited liability to board members or officers (shareholders yes).

[davout]

No, just sad and disappointed that this old turd is getting trotted out again.

Massive corporations evolve into governments.
AnCap has already happened, and it failed.
Most people don't want to be free.

[myrkul]

No, just sad and disappointed that this old turd is getting trotted out again.

Massive corporations evolve into require governments.

Fixed that for ya.

And Dalkore, I'm sure your great-great grandpa would be very saddened to hear that you're of the opinion that people need to be forced to do what's good for 'em.

[davout]

Fixed that for ya.

Corporations and governments are the same thing. The line you draw between them exists just in your mind.

[myrkul]

Fixed that for ya.

Corporations and governments are the same thing. The line you draw between them exists just in your mind.

Actually, only in your mind. Because this line you speak of? It is not in my mind.

You seem to assume AnCap would be run by corporations. You are wrong.

[Dalkore]

No, just sad and disappointed that this old turd is getting trotted out again.

Massive corporations evolve into require governments.

Fixed that for ya.

And Dalkore, I'm sure your great-great grandpa would be very saddened to hear that you're of the opinion that people need to be forced to do what's good for 'em.

My great grandpa was a sliver/gold prospector in California and Oregon.  He need that you needed to be forced to do what is right, that is why he carried a revolver, rifle and shotgun on his person.  He lived in an AnCap society, guess what, it sucked and life could be cheap and depending on where you were, much cheaper.

[davout]

You seem to assume AnCap would be run by corporations. You are wrong.

Humans are social animals. Deal with it.

[Dalkore]

You seem to assume AnCap would be run by corporations. You are wrong.

Humans are social animals. Deal with it.

We are social and some are animals and some hold themselves to a higher standard.

[myrkul]

You seem to assume AnCap would be run by corporations. You are wrong.

Humans are social animals. Deal with it.

But it does not follow that Humans are social animals, therefore, corporations.

My great grandpa was a sliver/gold prospector in California and Oregon.  He need that you needed to be forced to do what is right, that is why he carried a revolver, rifle and shotgun on his person.  He lived in an AnCap society, guess what, it sucked and life could be cheap and depending on where you were, much cheaper.

You dropped a great, Dalkore. You may have also selected the wrong side of your family tree. Go far enough back, and you'll find someone who would be very upset with the views you espouse.

[Dalkore]

You seem to assume AnCap would be run by corporations. You are wrong.

Humans are social animals. Deal with it.

But it does not follow that Humans are social animals, therefore, corporations.

My great grandpa was a sliver/gold prospector in California and Oregon.  He need that you needed to be forced to do what is right, that is why he carried a revolver, rifle and shotgun on his person.  He lived in an AnCap society, guess what, it sucked and life could be cheap and depending on where you were, much cheaper.

You dropped a great, Dalkore. You may have also selected the wrong side of your family tree. Go far enough back, and you'll find someone who would be very upset with the views you espouse.

No one is advocating people becoming corporations.   In our society, it would almost be mandatory as form of prudence because the risk of being sued and having your assets getting a lien or face being ex-communicated from your trading group / community is very real.


You should just leave my own or anyone elses family out of this discussion.  You're just stating pure speculation about people you know nothing about or even ever had any contact with to try and suit your political goals.  Even if it were true, that is their views and that has none or very little bearing on my own.

[myrkul]

You should just leave my own or anyone elses family out of this discussion.  You're just stating pure speculation about people you know nothing about or even ever had any contact with to try and suit your political goals.  Even if it were true, that is their views and that has none or very little bearing on my own.

That's funny, because the anti-abolitionists had much the same views of the slaves, as you do of humanity as a whole. (Or is it just some people, Dalkore? Which group of people would you enslave for their own good?) They viewed them as savages, who needed the guidance of a civilized white man to get through their lives.

[Dalkore]

You should just leave my own or anyone elses family out of this discussion.  You're just stating pure speculation about people you know nothing about or even ever had any contact with to try and suit your political goals.  Even if it were true, that is their views and that has none or very little bearing on my own.

That's funny, because the anti-abolitionists had much the same views of the slaves, as you do of humanity as a whole. (Or is it just some people, Dalkore? Which group of people would you enslave for their own good?) They viewed them as savages, who needed the guidance of a civilized white man to get through their lives.

Well if you equate having a government as slavery, then you are beyond any rational discussion.  Even slaves had a government before they were apprehended by slave-traders.   

[myrkul]

You should just leave my own or anyone elses family out of this discussion.  You're just stating pure speculation about people you know nothing about or even ever had any contact with to try and suit your political goals.  Even if it were true, that is their views and that has none or very little bearing on my own.

That's funny, because the anti-abolitionists had much the same views of the slaves, as you do of humanity as a whole. (Or is it just some people, Dalkore? Which group of people would you enslave for their own good?) They viewed them as savages, who needed the guidance of a civilized white man to get through their lives.

Well if you equate having a government as slavery, then you are beyond any rational discussion.  Even slaves had a government before they were apprehended by slave-traders.   

Slavery is the appropriation of 100% of a person's productivity, is it not?

At what percentage does it become not slavery? 99%? 50%? 20%? If the slaves are allowed to pick who gets to be Overseer, does that make it not slavery?

And perhaps you forget that the slaves were not captured, typically, but sold, either by their own "governments" or rival ones?

[Dalkore]

You should just leave my own or anyone elses family out of this discussion.  You're just stating pure speculation about people you know nothing about or even ever had any contact with to try and suit your political goals.  Even if it were true, that is their views and that has none or very little bearing on my own.

That's funny, because the anti-abolitionists had much the same views of the slaves, as you do of humanity as a whole. (Or is it just some people, Dalkore? Which group of people would you enslave for their own good?) They viewed them as savages, who needed the guidance of a civilized white man to get through their lives.

Well if you equate having a government as slavery, then you are beyond any rational discussion.  Even slaves had a government before they were apprehended by slave-traders.   

Slavery is the appropriation of 100% of a person's productivity, is it not?

At what percentage does it become not slavery? 99%? 50%? 20%? If the slaves are allowed to pick who gets to be Overseer, does that make it not slavery?

And perhaps you forget that the slaves were not captured, typically, but sold, either by their own "governments" or rival ones?

That percentage of what I would call "tax" is always being debated and changed.  I don't think or have an exact utopian figure but I would prefer something over 10% but under 20% to go towards infrastructure, education, basic health and a standing army.

I am quite aware that in the beginning of the African slave trade, it was those African nations own aristocracy that sold their own people into the slave-trade through blood-debts.  I am also aware that the demand for this cheap form of labor outstripped the supply until non-African slave traders started sending in raiding parties to get who ever they could find.

 

[myrkul]

That percentage of what I would call "tax" is always being debated and changed.  I don't think or have an exact utopian figure but I would prefer something over 10% but under 20% to go towards infrastructure, education, basic health and a standing army.

But is taking, by force, not more than 20% of a person's productivity not slavery? If it is not, why is it not? What quality sets it apart from 21%, or 100%?

[davout]

Slavery is the appropriation of 100% of a person's productivity, is it not?

lrn2freedom

[myrkul]

Slavery is the appropriation of 100% of a person's productivity, is it not?

lrn2freedom

Welcome2ignore.

[Dalkore]

That percentage of what I would call "tax" is always being debated and changed.  I don't think or have an exact utopian figure but I would prefer something over 10% but under 20% to go towards infrastructure, education, basic health and a standing army.

But is taking, by force, not more than 20% of a person's productivity not slavery? If it is not, why is it not? What quality sets it apart from 21%, or 100%?

I am not saying more than a 21% tax is slavery.  I just don't want to give a blank check to people I don't know personally and have any oversight on where my money goes.

I do not believe a "tax" forced on me is slavery because I believe their are public services that are better handled by a more centralized administration that a private for-profit company.