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Question: Should the standard display of value in the bitcoin client be shifted 6 decimal places to the right?  (one bitcoin now would become 1,000,000 bitcoin in the client after changeover)  (Voting closed: June 14, 2011, 08:14:12 PM)
Yes!  I wanna be a Bitcoin Millionare! - 109 (67.7%)
No!  I prefer counting zeros! - 39 (24.2%)
Wait, what? - 13 (8.1%)
Total Voters: 158

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Author Topic: Shift the decimal point over?  (Read 14944 times)
Alligator-Al
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January 11, 2014, 03:16:07 PM
 #121

I agree it gets confusing when you buy something for .0015 bitcoin.  But I like bitcoin being the standard denomination.  It's a unit of account and is a good barometer of its worth relative to other currencies and I think that is important to maintain.  For transactions it is not so good and smaller denominations make sense.  If bitcoin is only going to be used by technologically savvy people then millibits and centibits make sense.  If the goal is truly to make the average joe use bitcoin why not just make it as damn simple as possible and call a millibit a bitdollar or something.  Ya I know the anti fiat crowd will cringe, but if I told my dad that a bitdollar is worth about 70 cents he would get that.   Dollar is a common name for a currency above and beyond just US.  You can call them bitpounds or whatever.  Just make it simple.  I think millibits and microbits and satoshis are a stretch for average people who don't share the same passion for bitcoin but could instantly see its value as a replacement for transaction processors, if they could just have a decent frame of reference for what they have in their wallet.
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nobbynobbynoob
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January 11, 2014, 03:25:58 PM
 #122

We can shift the decimal whitherever we wish, but the subunits are still mBTC, µBTC, etc.

I still see so many amounts quoted in full BTC and try to shift the decimal three places to the right in my thinking: much easier. Smiley

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January 11, 2014, 03:48:33 PM
 #123

Why are people still trolling this old thread, the voting finished in June of 2011.
The fact that this thread is more than 2 years old, and no changes have been made to shift the decimal point, should illustrate how unlikely the developers are to change the decimal point of Bitcoin.  Not going to happen!  Give it up guys.
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January 11, 2014, 04:15:33 PM
 #124

Why are people still trolling this old thread, the voting finished in June of 2011.
The fact that this thread is more than 2 years old, and no changes have been made to shift the decimal point, should illustrate how unlikely the developers are to change the decimal point of Bitcoin.  Not going to happen!  Give it up guys.

The devs don't need to do anything. Bitcoin is a decentralised currency/protocol.

Most of the wallets of any repute (Android phone version of blockchain.info seeming to be a notable exception) allow the user to display balance in mBTC or even µBTC. I have taken advantage of this (mBTC) wherever possible and actually find it mildly annoying that certain software (including Coinbase and Bitpay paywalls) display amounts only in BTC and I have to shift the decimal myself. Smiley

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January 11, 2014, 04:32:26 PM
 #125

Most of the wallets of any repute (Android phone version of blockchain.info seeming to be a notable exception) allow the user to display balance in mBTC or even µBTC. I have taken advantage of this (mBTC) wherever possible and actually find it mildly annoying that certain software (including Coinbase and Bitpay paywalls) display amounts only in BTC and I have to shift the decimal myself. Smiley
Here is the title of the poll for this thread "Should the standard display of value in the bitcoin client be shifted 6 decimal places to the right?".
How various websites and 3rd party software choose to display Bitcoin is off topic.  This thread should be locked.
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January 11, 2014, 04:57:56 PM
 #126

The flaw. If you move the decimal place 3 places. The maximum amount of Bitcoins created would then increase to 21 billion coins instead of the 21 million.

So changing the client to mBTC and then later uBTC  makes more sense.
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January 11, 2014, 07:58:41 PM
 #127

No, very bad idea, will cause mass confusion. 21 million is part of the story. Do this you kill it.

Further using mB, uB and nB serves 3 purposes

1 causes people to realise how valuable a bit coin is and
2 how much is has evaluated, in easy comprehended numbers, 10, 000
3 leaves them free to use whatever scheme they want
4 the have to learn a little bit of SI
5 since micro soft most know "micro"
6 Milli is common eg mm
7 nano is fairly well know since nano tech

so defn do not do this its a sill idea

if you really want to you can use satoshis

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January 11, 2014, 08:26:38 PM
 #128

No, very bad idea, will cause mass confusion. 21 million is part of the story. Do this you kill it.

Further using mB, uB and nB serves 3 purposes

1 causes people to realise how valuable a bit coin is and
2 how much is has evaluated, in easy comprehended numbers, 10, 000
3 leaves them free to use whatever scheme they want
4 the have to learn a little bit of SI
5 since micro soft most know "micro"
6 Milli is common eg mm
7 nano is fairly well know since nano tech

so defn do not do this its a sill idea

if you really want to you can use satoshis

I agree. With 1 USD currently worth about 1 mBTC or 100,000 satoshis and 1 oz of gold currently worth 0.8 BTC using satoshis as the unit is actually starting to make sense. This thread is from 2011. Let us wait a couple of years and see what happens first.

Edit: Using nBTC would require a hard fork, increase currency divisibility, since 1 satoshi is 10 nBTC. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist#Currency_changes

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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January 11, 2014, 09:57:51 PM
 #129

MoonShadow it seems as if I finally found something I can agree with you on. This poll shows that the majority of new members seem to prefer alternate cryptocurrency to Bitcoin. The comments suggest that they no longer see value in mining directly because it takes too long to obtain one Bitcoin. If the decimal moved that may change the outlook and bring people back into the fold.

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January 11, 2014, 10:12:35 PM
 #130

Bitcoin is the premium cypto-currency with a premium price tag, why this constant messing around with it ? I hate mbtc and it seems to be cropping up everywhere. I like the fact it only takes less than 2btc to buy an oz of gold. If you want to have hundreds of thousands of something go pick up some devcoins.

justmyname
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January 12, 2014, 01:00:17 AM
 #131

When you call it mBTC or uBTC  you already are moving the decimal place! You are just marking it as such, so you won't forget that the decimal has been moved.

If someone doesn't understand how to use the basic metric system they need to go back to the 1st grade and learn it. Better they don't use BTC at all! They surely will get robbed blind. Cheesy
  
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January 12, 2014, 01:08:44 AM
 #132

yes it should be done turn 1 Bitcoin into 100,000,000 bitcoins otherwise it cannot compete with Doge etc

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January 12, 2014, 01:29:16 AM
 #133

If someone doesn't understand how to use the basic metric system they need to go back to the 1st grade and learn it. Better they don't use BTC at all! They surely will get robbed blind. Cheesy
  

Nobody is proposing a substitution to the metric system. What's being proposed is to simplify the usage of the metric system. Simplification is also tought at school, I think you missed the class.


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January 12, 2014, 02:55:53 AM
 #134

Good point QuaestionAuthority (BTW, love your nick  Wink )  The state of Bitcoin mining today is such that it has evolved into a completely antithetical activity than what was originally intended in Satoshi Nakamoto's white paper.

I think the mainstream Bitcoin community many of whom have been early adopters or at least been in the forum for a year more than the newcomers, has developed a bit of snobbish attitude -- a bit of ivory tower stance since Bitcoin has suddenly gone to the Moon.  But those of us who are still here on Earth recognise the importance of Bitcoin's mass adaptability among the ordinary folk, among the small businesses on the High street etc.  And those 0.000 are not helping.

Here's an interesting article about this problem http://bitcoinmagazine.com/8274/the-psychology-of-decimals/

I'm relatively new to Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. Came in in November. On the first day I even Tried mining (yeah right LOL). Then I read a LOT (I'm a researcher so that's just how I approach anything that's new), and soon I started developing my own reservations about Bitcoin's long term economic model and about this crypotocurency's flexibility, which I'm not going to list here.  Before I knew it I discovered the alt-coins, and - you know what? - Yes Bitcoin has the first mover advantage, but there are 1 or 2 coins out there that are WAAAAY better then Bitcoin. If Bitcoin's mainstream community and especially the developers, do not recognise the fact that Bitcoin is no longer the only one, and that there is a need to adapt and be agile in this world, and that not all altcoin are "scamcoins" or Pump-n-Dump coins, it might miss out eventually.  So IMHO the attitude needs rethinking, first of all.

Secondly, the way that Blockhain stores information is in terms of Satoshis, not Bitcoins.  Important to remember.  The fact that 1 Bitcoin is = 100,000,000 satoshis is just a convention.  And it is this convention that need to be rethought.

For the transitional period we can call the 100mln satosi Bitcoin  "the old Bitcoin", and the 100,000 satoshi Bitcoin just "Bitcoin". And once the community reaches consensus then it can be passed to Bitcoin Foundation (or whoever does the PR), and tell them to announce it to the world, so that the wallet apps and all other apps can shift their decimal points.

I think Bitcoin would make a lot more sense to an average Joe (in whichever country) if he could talk about Bitcoins in  integers, rather than "zero point zero zero zero two five six bitcoins".  Imagine you are in noisy pub buying beer and instead of the traditional "two fifty" the bartender shouts "zero point zero zero zero two five bitcoins".   THINK in terms of real world!

Also, if I work for the whole week, I want to see that my work has been rewarded with UNITS, not fractions of a unit!

I resurrected this 2011 thread for a good reason. To show that even back in 2011 people voted in favor of this change.  Back then Bitcoin unit was so cheap that there was no need to change anything.  But those voters probably were thinking about the future  and that's why they voted in favour of change even then.  Now in 2014 this kind of change is NECESSARY!   
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January 12, 2014, 03:11:29 AM
 #135

Good point QuaestionAuthority (BTW, love your nick  Wink

Here's an interesting article about this problem http://bitcoinmagazine.com/8274/the-psychology-of-decimals/

Excellent article. Let's hope that the lack of perception of how the average public thinks doesn't kill BTC.


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January 12, 2014, 03:21:46 AM
 #136

Good point QuaestionAuthority (BTW, love your nick  Wink )  The state of Bitcoin mining today is such that it has evolved into a completely antithetical activity than what was originally intended in Satoshi Nakamoto's white paper.

I think the mainstream Bitcoin community many of whom have been early adopters or at least been in the forum for a year more than the newcomers, has developed a bit of snobbish attitude -- a bit of ivory tower stance since Bitcoin has suddenly gone to the Moon.  But those of us who are still here on Earth recognise the importance of Bitcoin's mass adaptability among the ordinary folk, among the small businesses on the High street etc.  And those 0.000 are not helping.

Here's an interesting article about this problem http://bitcoinmagazine.com/8274/the-psychology-of-decimals/

I'm relatively new to Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. Came in in November. On the first day I even Tried mining (yeah right LOL). Then I read a LOT (I'm a researcher so that's just how I approach anything that's new), and soon I started developing my own reservations about Bitcoin's long term economic model and about this crypotocurency's flexibility, which I'm not going to list here.  Before I knew it I discovered the alt-coins, and - you know what? - Yes Bitcoin has the first mover advantage, but there are 1 or 2 coins out there that are WAAAAY better then Bitcoin. If Bitcoin's mainstream community and especially the developers, do not recognise the fact that Bitcoin is no longer the only one, and that there is a need to adapt and be agile in this world, and that not all altcoin are "scamcoins" or Pump-n-Dump coins, it might miss out eventually.  So IMHO the attitude needs rethinking, first of all.

Secondly, the way that Blockhain stores information is in terms of Satoshis, not Bitcoins.  Important to remember.  The fact that 1 Bitcoin is = 100,000,000 satoshis is just a convention.  And it is this convention that need to be rethought.

For the transitional period we can call the 100mln satosi Bitcoin  "the old Bitcoin", and the 100,000 satoshi Bitcoin just "Bitcoin". And once the community reaches consensus then it can be passed to Bitcoin Foundation (or whoever does the PR), and tell them to announce it to the world, so that the wallet apps and all other apps can shift their decimal points.

I think Bitcoin would make a lot more sense to an average Joe (in whichever country) if he could talk about Bitcoins in  integers, rather than "zero point zero zero zero two five six bitcoins".  Imagine you are in noisy pub buying beer and instead of the traditional "two fifty" the bartender shouts "zero point zero zero zero two five bitcoins".   THINK in terms of real world!

Also, if I work for the whole week, I want to see that my work has been rewarded with UNITS, not fractions of a unit!

I resurrected this 2011 thread for a good reason. To show that even back in 2011 people voted in favor of this change.  Back then Bitcoin unit was so cheap that there was no need to change anything.  But those voters probably were thinking about the future  and that's why they voted in favour of change even then.  Now in 2014 this kind of change is NECESSARY!   

Thanks! That's pretty much how I see it. People judge everything in life by their perception of it. That's neither bad nor good, it's simply the way it is. People should look at the exchange rate calculators and see that they are earning $5 a day regardless of the naming convention or decimal location but it doesn't seem to be working that way. People want to say, I have a hundred dollars or I have a hundred Bitcoins. If they perceive that they aren't getting what they want - they'll leave and something that satisfies them will take over.

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January 12, 2014, 06:42:17 AM
 #137

If someone doesn't understand how to use the basic metric system they need to go back to the 1st grade and learn it. Better they don't use BTC at all! They surely will get robbed blind. Cheesy
  

Nobody is proposing a substitution to the metric system. What's being proposed is to simplify the usage of the metric system. Simplification is also tought at school, I think you missed the class.




It would have been a great idea. Except for the fact that the 21 million limit would have to change by the same amount of decimal places. It isn't going to happen. You can't willy nilly Bitcoin like the US Dollar has been.

And for all the anxious to get rich crowd. If Bitcoin does what it did last year it will be worth $52,0000 thousand each by 2015.

If I were going to buy pizza or beer  I would probably use Bitcoin before ounces of gold.  I  would use Dollars first.  That's why fiat like the US Dollar are here to stay.  They are kept at a relatively stable price by the Federal Reserve.
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January 12, 2014, 07:02:39 AM
 #138

Good point QuaestionAuthority (BTW, love your nick  Wink )  The state of Bitcoin mining today is such that it has evolved into a completely antithetical activity than what was originally intended in Satoshi Nakamoto's white paper.

I think the mainstream Bitcoin community many of whom have been early adopters or at least been in the forum for a year more than the newcomers, has developed a bit of snobbish attitude -- a bit of ivory tower stance since Bitcoin has suddenly gone to the Moon.  But those of us who are still here on Earth recognise the importance of Bitcoin's mass adaptability among the ordinary folk, among the small businesses on the High street etc.  And those 0.000 are not helping.

Here's an interesting article about this problem http://bitcoinmagazine.com/8274/the-psychology-of-decimals/

I'm relatively new to Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. Came in in November. On the first day I even Tried mining (yeah right LOL). Then I read a LOT (I'm a researcher so that's just how I approach anything that's new), and soon I started developing my own reservations about Bitcoin's long term economic model and about this crypotocurency's flexibility, which I'm not going to list here.  Before I knew it I discovered the alt-coins, and - you know what? - Yes Bitcoin has the first mover advantage, but there are 1 or 2 coins out there that are WAAAAY better then Bitcoin. If Bitcoin's mainstream community and especially the developers, do not recognise the fact that Bitcoin is no longer the only one, and that there is a need to adapt and be agile in this world, and that not all altcoin are "scamcoins" or Pump-n-Dump coins, it might miss out eventually.  So IMHO the attitude needs rethinking, first of all.

Secondly, the way that Blockhain stores information is in terms of Satoshis, not Bitcoins.  Important to remember.  The fact that 1 Bitcoin is = 100,000,000 satoshis is just a convention.  And it is this convention that need to be rethought.

For the transitional period we can call the 100mln satosi Bitcoin  "the old Bitcoin", and the 100,000 satoshi Bitcoin just "Bitcoin". And once the community reaches consensus then it can be passed to Bitcoin Foundation (or whoever does the PR), and tell them to announce it to the world, so that the wallet apps and all other apps can shift their decimal points.

I think Bitcoin would make a lot more sense to an average Joe (in whichever country) if he could talk about Bitcoins in  integers, rather than "zero point zero zero zero two five six bitcoins".  Imagine you are in noisy pub buying beer and instead of the traditional "two fifty" the bartender shouts "zero point zero zero zero two five bitcoins".   THINK in terms of real world!

Also, if I work for the whole week, I want to see that my work has been rewarded with UNITS, not fractions of a unit!

I resurrected this 2011 thread for a good reason. To show that even back in 2011 people voted in favor of this change.  Back then Bitcoin unit was so cheap that there was no need to change anything.  But those voters probably were thinking about the future  and that's why they voted in favour of change even then.  Now in 2014 this kind of change is NECESSARY!   

Bravo, couldn't of said it better myself. Call it 25 satoshies, 25mBTC, or whatever, it's still a fractional amount of a whole value and ridiculous to deal with if you're intention is to make everyday purchases with. Which I thought was the whole idea behind bitcoin in the first place.
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January 12, 2014, 07:08:33 AM
 #139

If someone doesn't understand how to use the basic metric system they need to go back to the 1st grade and learn it. Better they don't use BTC at all! They surely will get robbed blind. Cheesy
  

Nobody is proposing a substitution to the metric system. What's being proposed is to simplify the usage of the metric system. Simplification is also tought at school, I think you missed the class.




It would have been a great idea. Except for the fact that the 21 million limit would have to change by the same amount of decimal places. It isn't going to happen. You can't willy nilly Bitcoin like the US dollar has been.

And for all the anxious to get rich crowd. If Bitcoin does what it did last year it will be worth $52,0000 thousand each by 2015.  

Bitcoin can still be split into 1000,000,000,000,000 units i totally see where OP is coming from, about removing all the decimal places.




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January 12, 2014, 08:26:52 AM
 #140

If someone doesn't understand how to use the basic metric system they need to go back to the 1st grade and learn it. Better they don't use BTC at all! They surely will get robbed blind. Cheesy
  

Nobody is proposing a substitution to the metric system. What's being proposed is to simplify the usage of the metric system. Simplification is also tought at school, I think you missed the class.




It would have been a great idea. Except for the fact that the 21 million limit would have to change by the same amount of decimal places. It isn't going to happen. You can't willy nilly Bitcoin like the US dollar has been.

And for all the anxious to get rich crowd. If Bitcoin does what it did last year it will be worth $52,0000 thousand each by 2015.  

Bitcoin can still be split into 1000,000,000,000,000 units i totally see where OP is coming from, about removing all the decimal places.





Unless you fully Re-denominate. You have to identify how many decimal places have been removed. Either the metric system or the powers of 10 system. You can't reinvent the wheel with some system that doesn't actually exist.
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