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Question: Should the standard display of value in the bitcoin client be shifted 6 decimal places to the right?  (one bitcoin now would become 1,000,000 bitcoin in the client after changeover)  (Voting closed: June 14, 2011, 08:14:12 PM)
Yes!  I wanna be a Bitcoin Millionare! - 109 (67.7%)
No!  I prefer counting zeros! - 39 (24.2%)
Wait, what? - 13 (8.1%)
Total Voters: 158

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Author Topic: Shift the decimal point over?  (Read 14947 times)
MoonShadow
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June 07, 2011, 08:14:12 PM
 #1

Informal poll.  Do you think it's time for the Bitcoin community to change the view of the bitcoin balance in the standard client?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 07, 2011, 08:17:54 PM
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Absolutely. But you should make it clear that those are microbitcoins (UBT). This is a essential step in order to normalize small tradings in the midterm.

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June 07, 2011, 08:18:11 PM
 #3

No. That time will never come.  It makes no sense whatsoever and will never happen.

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June 07, 2011, 08:19:33 PM
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No. That time will never come.  It makes no sense whatsoever and will never happen.

OK, that's actually a reasonable point.  Changes the actual value of the currency would make no sense, but just changing the denominations that we handle would work.

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MoonShadow
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June 07, 2011, 08:20:41 PM
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No. That time will never come.  It makes no sense whatsoever and will never happen.

OK, that's actually a reasonable point. 

Do you agree with yourself often?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 07, 2011, 08:21:43 PM
 #6

6 no, but 3 would be nice IMHO
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June 07, 2011, 08:27:29 PM
 #7

Copying my post from this thread: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=8282.140.

I think that instead of coming up with names for 0.001 and 0.000001 bitcoins we should seriously consider changing the value of 1 bitcoin. I propose that what now is 0.000001 bitcoins becomes the new bitcoin. If we want bitcoin to be widely used we have start thinking about how to make things simple for Average Joe. So, a couple of reasons why this would be better:

  • Bitcoin sounds like a small amount.
  • While milli- and micro- is very simple to understand for a scientific community, "a thousand" and "a million" is understood more intuitively by Average Joe. So instead of having "a microbitcoin", "a millibitcoin" and "a bitcoin" in everyday use it would be better to have "a bitcoin", "a thousand bitcoins" and "a million bitcoins".
  • No currency that I have used have smaller amounts than 0.01 main units. Using the new definition of a bitcoin the smallest possible amount would be just that, 0.01 bitcoins.

I don't think that it's too late to make a change like this.

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June 07, 2011, 08:31:49 PM
 #8

6 no, but 3 would be nice IMHO

The reason for doing 6 right away is that we don't want to have to do it again later.

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June 07, 2011, 08:34:43 PM
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If you do it now, people may think Mugabe overtook the network
MoonShadow
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June 07, 2011, 08:37:24 PM
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If you do it now, people may think Mugabe overtook the network

We need to explain this, and set a date for the shift.  Otherwise this is going to have to happen later, when the average bitcoin user is much less informed than the average user of this forum.  The results, I believe, could be mass confusion.  It could cause mass confusion anyway.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 07, 2011, 08:39:06 PM
 #11

6 no, but 3 would be nice IMHO

I suggested 3 back in November, nobody listened.  Now we have a condition wherein we are already pricing things in fractions of a coin.  If we only move 3 over, we will have to do it again in another 6 months.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 07, 2011, 08:41:05 PM
 #12

If you do it now, people may think Mugabe overtook the network

We need to explain this, and set a date for the shift.  Otherwise this is going to have to happen later, when the average bitcoin user is much less informed than the average user of this forum.  The results, I believe, could be mass confusion.  It could cause mass confusion anyway.

Yes, I agree. I think if we ever do it, it should probably coincide with halving the reward so people have time to prepare and adjust their thinking. Just like with summer/winter times
Alternatively, we could just leave it as it is and use mBTC uBTC
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June 07, 2011, 08:42:54 PM
 #13

I think it's time we had an option in the client about what denomination of bitcoin to display. The default as is, and then a clear and well-explained drop-list or something for lower denominations.


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June 07, 2011, 08:43:09 PM
 #14

maybe an option? I like the classic numbering scheme better.

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June 07, 2011, 08:43:41 PM
 #15

Personally, I think a solution might be to allow the app's user to zoom in or zoom out (showing bitcoins, millicoins, etc.).

This way each person may decide what is appropriate for their uses.

(It also saves us from having this conversation when the bitcoin values double or the bubble bursts -- whatever comes first!)

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June 07, 2011, 08:45:29 PM
 #16

yes, most of us find reading numbers like

1000 easier than .0001

I predict that this is one thing that must happen before bitcoins gain wider adoption, but being as the price of BTC is still so volatile (for all we know it could settle at $1=1BTC it is hard to know how many decimal places.

One thing that might help is including a currency converter within the client so even if people see that their btc balance has changed, its value has not. In the long term, people might need to get out of the habit of converting in and out of their home currency, but that is far far into the future of btc evolution

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June 07, 2011, 08:48:31 PM
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I think a change like this is inevitable. That said, it's also better done quickly because no matter how much information and warning goes out before it, there will be confusion.

Do it now, and it will affect fewer users. Not sure what this change would do the rate of new people adopting bitcoins.

My biggest concern is if all current sites and services that handle bitcoins are prepared for a change like that yet.. What happens if a site operator hasn't been paying much attention, and misses the change. Would people's coins be in any danger?
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June 07, 2011, 08:48:32 PM
 #18

i don't have an issue with a client that presents the balance however the user wants, but I'm talking about changing the default state, and thereby changing the standard way we discuss value.  Otherwise, there will be the need to explain our personal frames of references with every transaction, or risk a misunderstanding undermining our businesses.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 07, 2011, 08:52:11 PM
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I think a change like this is inevitable. That said, it's also better done quickly because no matter how much information and warning goes out before it, there will be confusion.

Do it now, and it will affect fewer users. Not sure what this change would do the rate of new people adopting bitcoins.

My biggest concern is if all current sites and services that handle bitcoins are prepared for a change like that yet.. What happens if a site operator hasn't been paying much attention, and misses the change. Would people's coins be in any danger?

No, no danger there.  The value of the bitcoins won't change, just the display of them.  If the users of said site transfer their coins out from that site, their new client would display the new number.  In truth, bitcoins are just a 64 bit integer anyway, and the decimial point was put into the middle of that 16 decimal place (in base ten) integer as an arbitrary decision by Satoshi.  We have all known that it would have to move eventually, we just didn't really expect that day would come so quickly.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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June 07, 2011, 08:53:46 PM
 #20

Otherwise, there will be the need to explain our personal frames of references with every transaction, or risk a misunderstanding undermining our businesses.

We do this every day. Five bucks, 2 K's, a million etc.

(Ok, so I don't do transactions of a million dollars every day, but .. )

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