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MemoryDealers
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December 19, 2012, 10:14:12 AM
 #1

I'm sad to report that Bitcoinstore.com has encountered our first scammer:



**************************************************
**************************************************
******Contact details removed until things cool down*****
**************************************************
**************************************************
**************************************************


He ordered a video card earlier this week,  but insisted that we declare it as $0 dollars for customs.
Legally we are not allowed to do this,  so we offered to declare the full amount,  or refund his money.

******* asked for a refund which was promptly sent.

Unfortunately an extra 4.5119 was also sent to him that he is refusing to return. (I understand that this is partially Bitcoinstore's fault)

The Bitcoin address and payments in question are:  http://blockchain.info/address/1H4UR5M72Ybpo4zrqWe8JKKYSeN1gxqBcU

He has refused to refund the money when asked via email,  and when I called on the telephone,  he hung up on me as soon as I told him my name.

Other than the reputational enforcement from this posting,  I don't know what else can be done.  

Any ideas?

BitcoinStore customer information is normally considered private, and will only be divulged in cases of blatant attempted scamming.
Because this order was placed with Bitcoin,  we have no idea if the above is his real name,  
but we can assume that the address is valid,  and I know that the telephone number is valid as well
because when I called him,  he knew exactly who I was, and why I was calling.

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1397664038
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December 19, 2012, 10:37:53 AM
 #2

Don't let cunts like this guy get to you, what we need is some sort of reliable payment system, I don't think the standard is going to cut it with Bitcoin because of all the scammers.
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December 19, 2012, 11:41:57 AM
 #3

Don't let cunts like this guy get to you, what we need is some sort of reliable payment system, I don't think the standard is going to cut it with Bitcoin because of all the scammers.

Maybe a functionality to revert payments.  Smiley

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December 19, 2012, 11:43:26 AM
 #4

Don't let cunts like this guy get to you, what we need is some sort of reliable payment system, I don't think the standard is going to cut it with Bitcoin because of all the scammers.

Maybe a functionality to revert payments.  Smiley
Yeah, we need to inven...Wait, it's PayPal!

Away (and somewhat back long enough to release funds still held) after an emergency.
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December 19, 2012, 11:48:44 AM
 #5

Don't let cunts like this guy get to you, what we need is some sort of reliable payment system, I don't think the standard is going to cut it with Bitcoin because of all the scammers.

Maybe a functionality to revert payments.  Smiley
Yeah, we need to inven...Wait, it's PayPal!


And then add a functionality to pay directly from my banking account so I don't need to convert my money into obscure internet tokens first.

I think we've got a great thing/k going here.

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MemoryDealers
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December 19, 2012, 11:50:52 AM
 #6

Some kind of blockchain recording everyone's trustworthyness would be an interesting tool to try to develop.
Everyone would have a copy,  so they could instantly check to see if someone they want to do business with is trustworthy or not.

For now, I just want the world to know what a jerk and scammer this guy is.

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December 19, 2012, 11:54:12 AM
 #7

Maybe a functionality to revert payments.  Smiley

That would bring even more scams

I'm sad to report that Bitcoinstore.com has encountered our first scammer:

*
 refund which was promptly sent.

Unfortunately an extra 4.5119 was also sent to him that he is refusing to return. (I understand that this is partially Bitcoinstore's fault)

The Bitcoin address and payments in question are:  http://blockchain.info/address/1H4UR5M72Ybpo4zrqWe8JKKYSeN1gxqBcU

He has refused to refund the money when asked via email,  and when I called on the telephone,  he hung up on me as soon as I told him my name.

Other than the reputational enforcement from this posting,  I don't know what else can be done.  

Any ideas?

BitcoinStore customer information is normally considered private, and will only be divulged in cases of blatant attempted scamming.
Because this order was placed with Bitcoin,  we have no idea if the above is his real name,  
but we can assume that the address is valid,  and I know that the telephone number is valid as well
because when I called him,  he knew exactly who I was, and why I was calling.


Thanks for the info, I have been scammed myself and i know it sucks. My thread is in here if you can help me.
I wouldn't (personaly) add contact info online such as phones or address, but i would try to find the scammer's accounts to post
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December 19, 2012, 12:10:51 PM
 #8

I hope that action above was covered in your terms of use and privacy policy.
There was a discussion between some of my friends recently about releasing personal information by e-shop owner and most of them disagree with this kind of "revenge".
It may bring negative attention.
Raoul Duke
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December 19, 2012, 12:14:13 PM
 #9

I hope that action above was covered in your terms of use and privacy policy.
There was a discussion between some of my friends recently about releasing personal information by e-shop owner and most of them disagree with this kind of "revenge".
It may bring negative attention.

He could try doing it the easy way and equal for everyone.
Publish a public list of persons who for some reason owe the company money and are late with payments.
No need to call them scammers, just a debtors list Wink
Don't know about the US, but I know some brick and mortar shops already did this(publish debtor lists) in Portugal and there was no problem at all, quite the opposite, they even made it to the press/TV.

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December 19, 2012, 12:16:58 PM
 #10

If your policy is to publicly shame with full name, address, email, and phone of those that you consider to have scammed you, please update your privacy policy to detail exactly the circumstances in which you're going to do this.  Your current privacy policy explicitly says "We will not disclose or sell your personal contact information to any third parties without your permission".

But I really wish that you would reconsider this policy:
  • The name and address provided could have been someone else's and now you're publicly posting it
  • It could have been some underage kid who stupidly did this and now you're posting all of their info
  • As encountered on sites like Reddit, people can go on internet witch hunts with people's private info - possibly against the wrong person just because they happened to find someone with the same name on Facebook
  • Do you really want the privacy-conscious Bitcoin community to have to stop and consider the possibility that ALL of their info could be released on the forums before making a purchase?

I sympathize with the fact that this guy isn't returning the excess Bitcoin, but posting _all_ of their info publicly is a bit extreme to me - and completely against your current privacy policy.

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MemoryDealers
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December 19, 2012, 12:32:01 PM
 #11

I sympathize with the fact that this guy isn't returning the excess Bitcoin, but posting _all_ of their info publicly is a bit extreme to me - and completely against your current privacy policy.

The current privacy policy states:


But we will disclose these information ...... to protect against misuse or unauthorized use of our website.

I think this falls pretty clearly within that.

He has also since threatened my family with the following statement that is obviously directed towards me:  "FuckingTheDeadBodyOfRogersMom"
(My name is Roger)

Does anyone have an opinion on if it would be worthwhile to try contacting the Greek police in regards to the above threat?

http://www.bitcoinstore.com More than 500,000 products available for Bitcoin only!

http://www.memorydealers.com Please buy your Optical Transceivers or other Cisco gear from me!          Follow me on twitter!  https://twitter.com/rogerkver
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December 19, 2012, 12:36:21 PM
 #12

I understand the customer got his money back, but got more BTC than he was supposed to get. At the current going, this amounts to about 50 USD. While I understand you're angry, I am not sure if making his info public is the way to go. What is a customer in the future has a dispute with you, and then you put his info public, because you think he's wrong and you're not, when in fact a 3rd party may be the cause of the problem.

This case is clear cut, he should return the BTC he got that was over the amount he was supposed to receive, however when he denies to do so, just forget the case, and make sure there are no such erroneous paybacks in the future from your company.

50 dollars just isn't worth the stress mate.

On the other hand, prospective customers may be put off by knowing that in the event of a dispute, their personal information is not necessarily safe..
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December 19, 2012, 12:47:45 PM
 #13

Does anyone have an opinion on if it would be worthwhile to try contacting the Greek police in regards to the above threat?

You'll hardily achieve anything meaningful.

You'd have perhaps more chances by attempting to talk with exchanges, since you probably know the owners of many of them, asking for an eventual block of this individual if he ever tries to cash out the money he owns you. But I'm not sure exchanges would accept to do this, as it could backfire on them.

I don't know what you can do. Fortunately it's not a huge amount, it won't hurt you that much.

50 dollars just isn't worth the stress mate.

On the other hand, prospective customers may be put off by knowing that in the event of a dispute, their personal information is not necessarily safe..

This is true.

18rZYyWcafwD86xvLrfuxWG5xEMMWUtVkL
MemoryDealers
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December 19, 2012, 12:53:08 PM
 #14

50 dollars just isn't worth the stress mate.

In no way is it about the money for me, I've already spent hundreds of dollars worth of time on this,  but I'm incredibly driven by the moral principle behind it.

http://www.bitcoinstore.com More than 500,000 products available for Bitcoin only!

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December 19, 2012, 01:00:19 PM
 #15

I got mailed by Zlatko Bijelic (Support) at 6.46pm

Quote
Nikolaos,

I hope that you are doing well.

You may have noticed that you received about 4.50932664 BTC coins today (2012-12-19 01:35:38) - this was due to a mistake on our end by giving the customer an incorrect Bitcoin Address for payment. I would like to ask if you can send us those Bitcoins?

Thank you in advance, I hope that you have a great day!

My reply:

Quote
WOW thats kinda sad, for both of us because it was an anonymous receiving address from my online wallet. Should I give my permanent address to forward payments to??? It would be great!!

I didnt receive anything, someone else got lucky today, but let me remind you thats its your fault in the first place that you didnt want to sent me what i bought. Im not lying here, that is my real name here and im from my real ip address.


After a while got that back from "Roger" (AND THIS EXPLAINS WHAT HE CLAIMS TO BE A THREAT FOR HIS FAMILY....)

Quote
Nikolaos,

I looked up your address with Blockchain, and %100 for sure the funds were sent to a Bitcoin address that you control.

Here is the proof of the link to your account corresponding with Bitcoin address: 1H4UR5M72Ybpo4zrqWe8JKKYSeN1gxqBcU

-redacted by request-

You need to send back my 4.5119 BTC to:
18yDbzddGVEr1Vyp4NXrP6mqAmUTesAg9a

right away.

I'm sorry Zlatko made the mistake in refunding you too much money to begin with.
Thank you for doing the right thing and returning the money,

Roger Ver

This right here is my personal SECRET information on blockchain.info.
(There i changed MY SECRET KEY to "...RogersMom" for blockchain, for him to see........and its totaly not a threat, (about contacting Greek police, for a threat LIKE THAT (?!) that i could maybe "kill"(?!?) someone from your family from Greece to US, they would just laugh)

After informing that what he did IS illegal (at least moraly, because we talk for bitcoins, where there is no law) he told me that:

Quote
Nethead, I own 25% of blockchain.info
I also own 15% of Bitinstant.com
%100 of Bitcoinstore.com
%100 or Memorydealers.com
I also own a % of coinlab.com, ripple.com ogrr.com and I am the largest single donor to bitcoinfoundation.org

I'm Roger Ver, the post prolific Bitcoin investor the world has ever seen:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/04/24/coinlab-attracts-500000-in-venture-capital-for-bitcoin-projects/


Stop trying to steal from me, I caught you %100.


This is your final chance to do the right thing and send my money back.

18yDbzddGVEr1Vyp4NXrP6mqAmUTesAg9a (4.5119 BTC)

Do it now, and both our lives will be easier, and you will be a better person for it.

With the very best intentions,

Roger Ver



In no way i got his money, and even if i did WHAT THE FUCK?? This incident i trully want to stay online, and on request i will pastebin all the conversation regarding this subject, im in a sok and i dont know what else to write. Ask me if i forgot anything.


I believe you just lost your reputation as Roger with what you did, YOU must repair mine.

.
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December 19, 2012, 01:03:04 PM
 #16

Yes, and I understand this. However, I think the time and effort can be used better. I also fought a fight a few months back, reclaiming a petty sum, using a lot more time and effort to win it back. In the end, I won. I was right on principle, and I got the money back, but was it worth it ? I could probably have used my time better and been productive with other things. Principles are all good, but sometimes it's just a fight not worth fighting.

50 dollars just isn't worth the stress mate.

In no way is it about the money for me, I've already spent hundreds of dollars worth of time on this,  but I'm incredibly driven by the moral principle behind it.

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December 19, 2012, 01:09:35 PM
 #17

i spammed the newbie section a little so i can post here. leave me some time to make my post explaining PLEASE.
My point of view has to be heard. I am totaly not a scammer.

As i write it i kindly request all my info gets removed now. You decide later if you have to post it or if its legal to do so.

If you agree to refund my money if that is what the community thinks you should do, I will gladly remove all your information now.

I'm also happy to talk about it on the phone if you don't hang up on me again.

http://www.bitcoinstore.com More than 500,000 products available for Bitcoin only!

http://www.memorydealers.com Please buy your Optical Transceivers or other Cisco gear from me!          Follow me on twitter!  https://twitter.com/rogerkver
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December 19, 2012, 01:14:55 PM
 #18

He has also since threatened my family with the following statement that is obviously directed towards me:  "FuckingTheDeadBodyOfRogersMom"
(My name is Roger)

Does anyone have an opinion on if it would be worthwhile to try contacting the Greek police in regards to the above threat?

Hahaha. Yes, yes please call the greek police. Make sure to report back here and let us all know how you get on. And record the call.

Also fuck dealing with you, ever. What type of company outs their customers personal information on a forum over a customer service dispute?

This guy didn't scam you. Scamming is where people deceive you into giving them money. You FUCKED UP. Obviously this guy should give you the money back, but this situation wouldn't have happened without your mistake. It doesn't give him the right to keep your money, but if I was you I'd just be like "Well, I screwed up here." and move on.

It's like if you ran a store, and you gave someone too much change in a transaction, and they just left without letting you know. Would you put up a picture of the person from the security camera on a noticeboard calling them a thief? Of course not. No shop keeper would. They'd admit their mistake, take the hit from it, and move on.

This guy should give you the money back, but you posting this makes you look like a joke. Your comment about getting in touch with the greek police makes you look like a manchild who is out of touch with reality, and all this post serves to do is draw attention to your own lack of competence.

Act like a professional, stupid.
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December 19, 2012, 01:15:36 PM
 #19

I sympathize with the fact that this guy isn't returning the excess Bitcoin, but posting _all_ of their info publicly is a bit extreme to me - and completely against your current privacy policy.

The current privacy policy states:

But we will disclose these information ...... to protect against misuse or unauthorized use of our website.

I'm not quite sure how that clause applies to the current situation: extra funds were sent to someone and you want them back - how is that misuse of the website?  If this is your policy then please be explicit about it and detail the exact circumstances.  For example, if a refund is necessary and you send too much, but can't get a hold of the person to get your money back will you publicly release all their info?  What if they happened to have just been on holiday for a week or two and that was why you couldn't reach them?  What if you call but the person hangs up because the person that picked up the phone didn't speak English?  There are all kinds of possible misunderstandings that could happen and it'd be nice to know which ones might trigger the completely public release of information.

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December 19, 2012, 01:20:20 PM
 #20

Your comment about getting in touch with the greek police makes you look like a manchild who is out of touch with reality,

Maybe you missed the part where he implied killing my mother.

http://www.bitcoinstore.com More than 500,000 products available for Bitcoin only!

http://www.memorydealers.com Please buy your Optical Transceivers or other Cisco gear from me!          Follow me on twitter!  https://twitter.com/rogerkver
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