Bitcoin savings fund for children or grandchildren?

[Herodes]

When I was born, my grandparents made me a small fund, it was stocks in a Norwegian Bank. The same thing they did to all my other sisters and brothers. The idea was that when I was old enough, I could use this money for education, or any other suitable purpose. As history would have it, the stocks decreased in value, and my grandparents never sold out. Eventually it was all lost, as the stocks were written down to zero.

I was thinking, and I mentioned this to my better half at one point, but she seemed indifferent (she's indifferent to everything that has to do with bitcoin) that perhaps we should start a 'fund', ie. just invest in bitcoins and not touch it until we have children that's old enough to have any possible advantage of it, i.e. perhaps 20 years into the future at this point.

Obviously we would not invest more than we could stand to lose.

I figure it can't fare any worse than the bank stock investments of my grandparents...

I'm seriously thinking this may be an interesting idea. What do you all think of it, and how would you make sure that the wallet survived all these years ? Would this be something you would do for your children or grandchildren ? Possibly, bitcoin may fail, and it might become worthless, on the other hand, if bitcoin becomes a mad success and lives on in a couple more decades, who knows what kind of prices we'd be looking at.

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[cypherdoc]

i think its a great idea but we/they have to stop bringing up the asinine idea about raiding/pillaging old unused addresses.   no one knows if those would represent what you're recommending vs. real lost private keys.

[Herodes]

i think its a great idea but we/they have to stop bringing up the asinine idea about raiding/pillaging old unused addresses.   no one knows if those would represent what you're recommending vs. real lost private keys.

Having old coins be released is an utterly stupid idea. If I or anyone else wants to sit on some coins for the remainer of our lifetime, we should be free to do so. If they were forcefully removed after 1,5,10 or even 20 years, who on earth would be around thinking that 'oh - we need to move the coins before they expire!'. And we would have lot's of cases were people go to retrieve their btc, and it's expired. Very silly idea to implement anything like that.

[notme]

Expiration won't happen and is off topic.  Bitcoins for your children is a great idea.  I recommend a paper wallet or casascius physical bitcoins.  That way your coins are safe from hackers and hard drive failures.

[Herodes]

Expiration won't happen and is off topic.  Bitcoins for your children is a great idea.  I recommend a paper wallet or casascius physical bitcoins.  That way your coins are safe from hackers and hard drive failures.

A paper wallet was an excellent idea. Print on paper lasts very long, not that sure about digital media like usb-drives and CD-ROMs, harddrives etc.

[notme]

Expiration won't happen and is off topic.  Bitcoins for your children is a great idea.  I recommend a paper wallet or casascius physical bitcoins.  That way your coins are safe from hackers and hard drive failures.

A paper wallet was an excellent idea. Print on paper lasts very long, not that sure about digital media like usb-drives and CD-ROMs, harddrives etc.

Cdroms or an old tape recorder is all I would trust with long term storage and I'd still recommend a paper backup.

[DannyHamilton]

Expiration won't happen and is off topic.  Bitcoins for your children is a great idea.  I recommend a paper wallet or casascius physical bitcoins.  That way your coins are safe from hackers and hard drive failures.

A paper wallet was an excellent idea. Print on paper lasts very long, not that sure about digital media like usb-drives and CD-ROMs, harddrives etc.

Cdroms or an old tape recorder is all I would trust with long term storage and I'd still recommend a paper backup.

I wouldn't trust CD-ROMS for more that a few years:

http://www.archives.gov/records-mgmt/initiatives/temp-opmedia-faq.html

CD/DVD experiential life expectancy is 2 to 5 years even though published life expectancies are often cited as 10 years, 25 years, or longer. However, a variety of factors discussed in the sources cited in FAQ 15, below, may result in a much shorter life span for CDs/DVDs. Life expectancies are statistically based; any specific medium may experience a critical failure before its life expectancy is reached. Additionally, the quality of your storage environment may increase or decrease the life expectancy of the media. We recommend testing your media at least every two years to assure your records are still readable.

[waspoza]

Expiration won't happen and is off topic.  Bitcoins for your children is a great idea.  I recommend a paper wallet or casascius physical bitcoins.  That way your coins are safe from hackers and hard drive failures.

Maybe it lasts, but its prone to physical damage like fire, water or can be stolen. I recommend brainwallet.

[Herodes]

Expiration won't happen and is off topic.  Bitcoins for your children is a great idea.  I recommend a paper wallet or casascius physical bitcoins.  That way your coins are safe from hackers and hard drive failures.

A paper wallet was an excellent idea. Print on paper lasts very long, not that sure about digital media like usb-drives and CD-ROMs, harddrives etc.

Cdroms or an old tape recorder is all I would trust with long term storage and I'd still recommend a paper backup.

Here's an interesting article about it:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-is-the-life-expectan

It says that ultraviolet light could damage a CD-ROM.

Some also think burned CD-ROM's will only retain their data for 2-5 years, while other thinks 50-200 years is more accurate:
http://forums.cnet.com/7723-10149_102-152618/1-27-06-how-long-do-burned-cd-rs-and-cd-rws-last/

Another issue is that CD-ROM players may be hard to find 20 years into the future, it may as well be obsolete tech.

[mccorvic]

Maybe it lasts, but its prone to physical damage like fire, water or can be stolen. I recommend brainwallet.

Implying that the brain isn't prone to physical damage? 

[Yuhfhrh]

Expiration won't happen and is off topic.  Bitcoins for your children is a great idea.  I recommend a paper wallet or casascius physical bitcoins.  That way your coins are safe from hackers and hard drive failures.

Maybe it lasts, but its prone to physical damage like fire, water or can be stolen. I recommend brainwallet.

Brainwallet all the way! I have half of a whole private key memorized, and I should have the entire thing memorized by January, just because I'm too good for a phrase.  

[cypherdoc]

i've decided the best way is to put copies on all of the media; diversification.

so is the "expiration" idea really dead?  theymos was resurrecting it just yesterday.

[franky1]

i already use paper wallets. just dont use inkjet as they fade after a few years. use laser printers and then seal the design using a fixative, which is a kind of varnish.

my design is like a bitcoin bearer bond. you could also get the private key etched into a piece of jewellery or a piece of metal. to ensure lastability beyond the risks of paper. store it safe!! go lo-tech (not on a computer or digital format.)

just dont rely on digital data storage. or online services that decode brain wallets. as they may not be available to download in 20 years and the offline storage of the decoder you kept in such an event may have become corrupted.


and remember to put details of the inheritance/childs trust fund in your Will if you want to keep it as a surprise. or they may never find out about it.

[Yuhfhrh]

i've decided the best way is to put copies on all of the media; diversification.

so is the "expiration" idea really dead?  theymos was resurrecting it just yesterday.

I'm pretty sure its dead. I can't imagine getting everyone to agree on how to do it. It could be a feature of another altcoin someday though.

[cypherdoc]

i've decided the best way is to put copies on all of the media; diversification.

so is the "expiration" idea really dead?  theymos was resurrecting it just yesterday.

I'm pretty sure its dead. I can't imagine getting everyone to agree on how to do it. It could be a feature of another altcoin someday though.

well thank gaud then.

[cypherdoc]

i already use paper wallets. just dont use inkjet as they fade after a few years. use laser printers and then seal the design using a fixative, which is a kind of varnish.

my design is like a bitcoin bearer bond. you could also get the private key etched into a piece of jewellery or a piece of metal. to ensure lastability beyond the risks of paper. store it safe!! go lo-tech (not on a computer or digital format.)

just dont rely on digital data storage. or online services that decode brain wallets. as they may not be available to download in 20 years and the offline storage of the decoder you kept in such an event may have become corrupted.


and remember to put details of the inheritance/childs trust fund in your Will if you want to keep it as a surprise. or they may never find out about it.

proudhon gave me a great idea which i adapted;  print the paper wallet using Armory, cut it into a smaller piece, folded it once, wrap it in a piece of construction paper so it can't be seen and then laminate both sides.  i'm sure it protects somewhat from oxidative damage to the print and it can be stuffed in a safe deposit box if desired.

[Spekulatius]

Expiration won't happen and is off topic.  Bitcoins for your children is a great idea.  I recommend a paper wallet or casascius physical bitcoins.  That way your coins are safe from hackers and hard drive failures.

I estimate chances for any "expiration algorithm" to become part of the bitcoin protocol are very low. However, cracking of old and seemingly unused wallets that have not been updated with better encryption algorithms will become a reality once computational power becomes cheap and plentiful enough. 20 years from now, Y not? (thats at least what I read)

SO investing in Bitcoin holds alot of potential, but is still pretty risky and putting your childrens education on the line in this gamble seems not worth it. YOu may wanna consider opting for other investments, like bonds, fonds with a broad and low risk portfolio or real estate.

In no case should you leave those coins unattended!

Best of luck,
Spekulatius

[John (John K.)]

i already use paper wallets. just dont use inkjet as they fade after a few years. use laser printers and then seal the design using a fixative, which is a kind of varnish.

my design is like a bitcoin bearer bond. you could also get the private key etched into a piece of jewellery or a piece of metal. to ensure lastability beyond the risks of paper. store it safe!! go lo-tech (not on a computer or digital format.)

just dont rely on digital data storage. or online services that decode brain wallets. as they may not be available to download in 20 years and the offline storage of the decoder you kept in such an event may have become corrupted.


and remember to put details of the inheritance/childs trust fund in your Will if you want to keep it as a surprise. or they may never find out about it.

proudhon gave me a great idea which i adapted;  print the paper wallet using Armory, cut it into a smaller piece, folded it once, wrap it in a piece of construction paper so it can't be seen and then laminate both sides.  i'm sure it protects somewhat from oxidative damage to the print and it can be stuffed in a safe deposit box if desired.

I would grab a piece of stainless steel/silver/gold and engrave the keys on that. It'll be still there 500 years later! (even more if gold is used)

[cypherdoc]

20 years from now, Y not? (thats at least what I read)

1.  your descendants will probably not be frequenting this forum like you to get the notice of a protocol change.
2.  they probably won't have your technical skills to do the tx.
3.  gold is being brought up from the depths of the ocean at the fastest pace ever yet its not tanking the gold price.
4.  most if not all of the big addresses are not lost coins. 
5.  the whole concept is just a "theory" that by my estimation is totally unfounded.

[cypherdoc]

i already use paper wallets. just dont use inkjet as they fade after a few years. use laser printers and then seal the design using a fixative, which is a kind of varnish.

my design is like a bitcoin bearer bond. you could also get the private key etched into a piece of jewellery or a piece of metal. to ensure lastability beyond the risks of paper. store it safe!! go lo-tech (not on a computer or digital format.)

just dont rely on digital data storage. or online services that decode brain wallets. as they may not be available to download in 20 years and the offline storage of the decoder you kept in such an event may have become corrupted.


and remember to put details of the inheritance/childs trust fund in your Will if you want to keep it as a surprise. or they may never find out about it.

proudhon gave me a great idea which i adapted;  print the paper wallet using Armory, cut it into a smaller piece, folded it once, wrap it in a piece of construction paper so it can't be seen and then laminate both sides.  i'm sure it protects somewhat from oxidative damage to the print and it can be stuffed in a safe deposit box if desired.

I would grab a piece of stainless steel/silver/gold and engrave the keys on that. It'll be still there 500 years later! (even more if gold is used)

this is interesting.  a while ago i tried handwriting the Armory root key and chain codes onto a piece of paper b/c i was paranoid about using my printer.  and his seeds only consists of letters, no numbers, and no caps.  turns out, my printing was so bad i couldn't reliably tell the difference btwn a "d" and an "a" or an "h" and an "n" and sometimes an "i" or an "l" or a "w" and a "u".  i was shocked at hard that simple task was.  bottom line; it you handwrite out the key, test it at least 3x to make sure you can access the pub key.