Money Pak

[videos4btc]

So can Moneypak be chargebacked on  in other words if I accept a moneypak to send bitcoins and get the cash can the person get it back? trying to understand Moneypak's ....

[crazyates]

AFAIK, MoneyPaks cannot be reversed. I've used MoneyPaks to buy BTC a few times from people here on the forums. You buy the MoneyPak from WalMart or anywhere else, and you put X amount of $ on it (plus the $4.95 for the card itself). Then you give them the card number (or the number on the receipt) to the person you're buying from. Anyone can take the number and deposit the money into their account, so be careful with that number. Escrow is also a good idea, as you want to verify that the person you are buying coins from actually has the coins, and is not trying to scam you.

If you're selling coins for MoneyPak, once the money is in your account, you should be good.

[John (John K.)]

AFAIK, MoneyPaks cannot be reversed. I've used MoneyPaks to buy BTC a few times from people here on the forums. You buy the MoneyPak from WalMart or anywhere else, and you put X amount of $ on it (plus the $4.95 for the card itself). Then you give them the card number (or the number on the receipt) to the person you're buying from. Anyone can take the number and deposit the money into their account, so be careful with that number. Escrow is also a good idea, as you want to verify that the person you are buying coins from actually has the coins, and is not trying to scam you.

If you're selling coins for MoneyPak, once the money is in your account, you should be good.

Include the original receipt and proof that it's bought using cash to be sure. There's been numerous reports of Greendot revoking the moneypaks after the scammer presented the receipt to them and said the moneypak was stolen.

[crazyates]

AFAIK, MoneyPaks cannot be reversed. I've used MoneyPaks to buy BTC a few times from people here on the forums. You buy the MoneyPak from WalMart or anywhere else, and you put X amount of $ on it (plus the $4.95 for the card itself). Then you give them the card number (or the number on the receipt) to the person you're buying from. Anyone can take the number and deposit the money into their account, so be careful with that number. Escrow is also a good idea, as you want to verify that the person you are buying coins from actually has the coins, and is not trying to scam you.

If you're selling coins for MoneyPak, once the money is in your account, you should be good.

Include the original receipt and proof that it's bought using cash to be sure. There's been numerous reports of Greendot revoking the moneypaks after the scammer presented the receipt to them and said the moneypak was stolen.

So when I bought with a CC and just told them the number, I must have been doing it all wrong? Fuck me.

[videos4btc]

AFAIK, MoneyPaks cannot be reversed. I've used MoneyPaks to buy BTC a few times from people here on the forums. You buy the MoneyPak from WalMart or anywhere else, and you put X amount of $ on it (plus the $4.95 for the card itself). Then you give them the card number (or the number on the receipt) to the person you're buying from. Anyone can take the number and deposit the money into their account, so be careful with that number. Escrow is also a good idea, as you want to verify that the person you are buying coins from actually has the coins, and is not trying to scam you.

If you're selling coins for MoneyPak, once the money is in your account, you should be good.

Include the original receipt and proof that it's bought using cash to be sure. There's been numerous reports of Greendot revoking the moneypaks after the scammer presented the receipt to them and said the moneypak was stolen.

Yes, this part is what I don't understand ^^ . Also, when you do get the number from the person where do you deposit it? .

Because by the time they give you the # and you deposit it ...why would you need the receipt for proof?

Thanks everyone for all the help

[John (John K.)]

AFAIK, MoneyPaks cannot be reversed. I've used MoneyPaks to buy BTC a few times from people here on the forums. You buy the MoneyPak from WalMart or anywhere else, and you put X amount of $ on it (plus the $4.95 for the card itself). Then you give them the card number (or the number on the receipt) to the person you're buying from. Anyone can take the number and deposit the money into their account, so be careful with that number. Escrow is also a good idea, as you want to verify that the person you are buying coins from actually has the coins, and is not trying to scam you.

If you're selling coins for MoneyPak, once the money is in your account, you should be good.

Include the original receipt and proof that it's bought using cash to be sure. There's been numerous reports of Greendot revoking the moneypaks after the scammer presented the receipt to them and said the moneypak was stolen.

So when I bought with a CC and just told them the number, I must have been doing it all wrong? Fuck me.

They're taking the risk, not you. Anyway, if someone had bought using a stolen CC, you can be sure greendot is going to revoke the moneypak as soon as they find it.

[DeathAndTaxes]

The wrong way to look at reversibility is as black or white question (Bitcoin is irreversible, PayPal can be reversed).

It is more a sliding scale.   Every payment system in the world can be reversed.  Bitcoin can be reversed by a 51% attack for example.  Bank Wires can be reversed if funds were transferred in the commission of a crime.  No you can't put a gun to Warren Buffet head and have him wire $1B and then say "bank wires are irreversible".  Even cash can be reversed when the buyer pulls out a gun and "asks" for his cash back. 

So the right way to look at the risk of reversed transaction is not YES/NO but more how HARD is it to reverse.  Harder to reverse, less risk to you.
If a 6-confirm Bitcoin transaction is a 10 on the "hard to reverse scale" and PayPal is a 1 then everything else falls somewhere in between. 

Everything can be reversed just some are easier than others.   The good news is Moneypaks are pretty "tough" to reverse.   One can't simply claim "they didn't get the goods, or they didn't like the product" and request a chargeback like a credit card however if someone is willing to commit fraud they can be reversed by claiming the MP was stolen  or it was hacked (usually the conman will claim it just "didn't work".  

Theoretical call to GreenDot.  Who are they going to believe?

I bought this $1,000 MP from Walmart and when I tried to use it, it says it was already used.  I have the original card and receipt and everything.  Please please help me GreenDot, I bought this MoneyPak to pay my bills and now I can't.

One can limit the risk by
a) only accepting MP purchased with cash.
b) only accepting MP purchased that day or relatively recently (someone selling a MP "they" bought weeks or months ago is likely reselling a MP, it probably has gone through half a dozen hands and anyone of them could have snagged the funds).
c) only accepting MP with a scan/photo of receipt (have seller write your name on the receipt).

If you did all that could you still be scammed?  Maybe but the odds are pretty low.  I would say it is probably an "8" (on 1-10 scale) for difficulty to reverse.  Probably safer than just about anything other than Bitcoin, cash, or bankwires.

Just accepting MP from someone online with no rep selling them for 50% off (ask yourself why would they do that) however is just asking to get scammed.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Yes, this part is what I don't understand ^^ .

Because by the time they give you the # and you deposit it ...why would you need the receipt for proof?

Thanks everyone for all the help

Because if the are a scammer the next thing they are going to do is call GreenDot report the card either a) didn't work (implying you brute forced attacked the number) or b) the card was stolen.   Of course they have the original card, the receipt, and GreenDot does not condone the resale of MoneyPaks.  Anywhere you deposit a MP requires KYC information so they can and they will instantly freeze your account pending release from GreenDot.   Also note as one buyer found out he a couple months back if you deposit multiple cards and say only 1 out of 20 is reported stolen/hacked they are going to freeze the entire account with the combined balance. 

What will GreenDot ask for  .... drumroll.  Proof you bought it.  No proof?  Well guess that makes you the theif/hacker.  Case solved.  Luckily GreenDot was able to keep another customer's funds safe (not that is the buyer not you).

[videos4btc]

Yes, this part is what I don't understand ^^ .

Because by the time they give you the # and you deposit it ...why would you need the receipt for proof?

Thanks everyone for all the help

Because if the are a scammer the next thing they are going to do is call GreenDot report the card either a) didn't work (implying you brute forced attacked the number) or b) the card was stolen.   Of course they have the original card, the receipt, and GreenDot does not condone the resale of MoneyPaks.  Anywhere you deposit a MP requires KYC information so they can and they will instantly freeze your account pending release from GreenDot.   Also note as one buyer found out he a couple months back if you deposit multiple cards and say only 1 out of 20 is reported stolen/hacked they are going to freeze the entire account with the combined balance. 

What will GreenDot ask for  .... drumroll.  Proof you bought it.  No proof?  Well guess that makes you the theif/hacker.  Case solved.  Luckily GreenDot was able to keep another customer's funds safe (not that is the buyer not you).

Thanks D & T.

So I'm trying to understand the "seller of bitcoins" side.  If they give me their # to deposit their cash which by the way where is that deposited at , is it at my MP account?  Can't I just move out the funds at that from my MP account or will MP give me a negative balance?  I'll start with this. Thanks!

[DeathAndTaxes]

No there is no such thing as a MoneyPak account.   A MoneyPak is simply a "pack of money" (clever name huh) it needs to deposited into a THIRD PARTY ACCOUNT.   Examples would be PayPal, prepaid credit cards, some legal US gambling sites, some utilities, debt collectors, etc.

The most common use is to fund a prepaid credit card.   There is no account anywhere in the world you can fund which doesn't require KYC information (name, address, at least partial SSN, telephone, etc).   So if you remove funds and the account gets frozen and the MP reversed, the account (in your name and social security number) will now have a negative balance.  The legal fine print in the cardholder agreement has a clause saying something like any negative balances become a debt of the cardholder and can be collected on by the account issuer.  You now owe that money to PayPal or NetBank or xyz corp.   Expect to get a notice of demand, and eventually the debt sold to a collection agency jacked up with collection fees, and slapped on your credit report for the next 7-10 years.  Worst case scenario (probably only reserved for if you had a LOT of MPs reversed) is you would get sued and have a judgement held against you and any future income.  

Pretty much no different than charging up a bunch on a credit card without the intent to pay it.

[videos4btc]

No there is no such thing as a MoneyPak account.   A MoneyPak is simply a "pack of money" (clever name huh) it needs to deposited into a THIRD PARTY ACCOUNT.   Examples would be PayPal, prepaid credit cards, some legal US gambling sites, some utilities, debt collectors, etc.

The most common use is to fund a prepaid credit card.   There is no account anywhere in the world you can fund which doesn't require KYC information (name, address, at least partial SSN, telephone, etc).   So if you remove funds and the account gets frozen and the MP reversed, the account (in your name and social security number) will now have a negative balance.  The legal fine print in the cardholder agreement has a clause saying something like any negative balances become a debt of the cardholder and can be collected on by the account issuer.  You now owe that money to PayPal or NetBank or xyz corp.   Expect to get a notice of demand, and eventually the debt sold to a collection agency jacked up with collection fees, and slapped on your credit report for the next 7-10 years.  Worst case scenario (probably only reserved for if you had a LOT of MPs reversed) is you would get sued and have a judgement held against you and any future income.  

Pretty much no different than charging up a bunch on a credit card without the intent to pay it.

I see it here now: https://www.moneypak.com/WhoAccepts.aspx  .

Yes, your 2nd paragraph was what I was wondering interesting.  Just sounds aweful lol ....ok this clears it all up! ha