Is there a market for "fresh" coins?

[gentlemand]

I'm sure all of my coins are dripping in filth, blood and drugs. I really couldn't give a shit though and I've never bothered to check their history and never will. They get the job done.

All these people screaming 'blacklist' are really just seeing private companies exercising their rights to cover their arses from the heavies breathing down their necks. It's all laid out in their terms and conditions and easily avoided.

[Farma]

if you play in bittrex trading, I think most good coin today is MEC or megacoin, you can start by checking whether the coin is really good or not 

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

I'm sure all of my coins are dripping in filth, blood and drugs. I really couldn't give a shit though and I've never bothered to check their history and never will. They get the job done.

All these people screaming 'blacklist' are really just seeing private companies exercising their rights to cover their arses from the heavies breathing down their necks. It's all laid out in their terms and conditions and easily avoided.

Same here, I can't be bothered to check whatever origin my coins got, since that's a waste of time, but ultimately even if you don't care, the person you are paying to may care, and sure he can't reject whatever Bitcoins you are paying with, but I wouldn't like to be paying with some money that was used previously for illegal stuff because what if the receiver notices and reports it or something? This is why we need increased privacy, and integrated CoinJoin like feature in all wallets, like coins get mixed by default and in a decentralized fashion, only then we can start talking about e cash.

[maku]

Aren't you guys concerned that in the future there won't be really 'fresh' coins anymore and every coin will be tainted more or less?
Situation with bitcoin will the be same as with US banknotes eventually - where more than 90% of total banknotes had contact with a cocaine.

[gentlemand]

Aren't you guys concerned that in the future there won't be really 'fresh' coins anymore and every coin will be tainted more or less?
Situation with bitcoin will the be same as with US banknotes eventually - where more than 90% of total banknotes had contact with a cocaine.

Isn't that a good thing overall? People would have to get on with using those disgusting coins or send the entire economy up in smoke. I think sense would be seen pretty rapidly.

[btcusury]

So what's happening is that people are betting that Bitcoin will not be able to maintain its fungibility -- that blacklists will eventually be implemented somehow -- thus hoarding/hodling "untainted" freshly mined coins? Wow.

[Mikestang]

Freshly mined coins have no history, and provide greater privacy and anonymity.

See, I would think just the opposite.  With no history it is much simpler to trace the coin to it's origin address and see who mined it.

[xyzzy099]

Freshly mined coins have no history, and provide greater privacy and anonymity.

See, I would think just the opposite.  With no history it is much simpler to trace the coin to it's origin address and see who mined it.

Exactly how would you do that?

16cv7wyeG6RRqhvJpY21CnsjxuKj2gAoK2 is an address that has received newly-generated bitcoins.  Can you tell me who mined them?

[owm123]

Freshly mined coins have no history, and provide greater privacy and anonymity.

See, I would think just the opposite.  With no history it is much simpler to trace the coin to it's origin address and see who mined it.

Exactly how would you do that?

16cv7wyeG6RRqhvJpY21CnsjxuKj2gAoK2 is an address that has received newly-generated bitcoins.  Can you tell me who mined them?

I think its not much about me or you knowing this, or random person on the street knowing this. This is more about about blockchain analytic companies doint this, such as elliptic, about a merchant who knows your identity behind an address by virtue of transacting with them, or exchanges or surveillance organizations v knowing  this information. And all this information can be used, at worst case, for blacklisting your bitcoins, if they deem bitcoins to dirty. And for fresh bitcoins have no history, so no risk of the being tainted.

Andreas Antonopoulos explains that to avoid this:

"we really need to address the issue of fungibility.  Blacklists are inherently evil, as they seed control to the  author of the blacklist and that control is absolute.".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak1iojpiHpM&feature=youtu.be&t=33m6s

And blacklisting is already happening, e.g.,
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

[xyzzy099]

Freshly mined coins have no history, and provide greater privacy and anonymity.

See, I would think just the opposite.  With no history it is much simpler to trace the coin to it's origin address and see who mined it.

Exactly how would you do that?

16cv7wyeG6RRqhvJpY21CnsjxuKj2gAoK2 is an address that has received newly-generated bitcoins.  Can you tell me who mined them?

You missing the point I think. The same you can ask for any other address. Its not about me or you, or random person on the street knowing this. This is about about blockchain analytic companies doint this, such as elliptic, about a merchant who knows your identity behind an address by virtue of transacting with them, or exchanges or surveillance organizations v knowing  this information. And all this information can be used, at worst case, for blacklisting your bitcoins, if they deem bitcoins to dirty.

Andreas Antonopoulos explains that to avoid this:

"we really need to address the issue of fungibility.  Blacklists are inherently evil, as they seed control to the  author of the blacklist and that control is absolute.".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak1iojpiHpM&feature=youtu.be&t=33m6s

And blacklisting is already happening, e.g.,
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

No, I didn't miss anything.  The whole point of using coins from a generation transaction for privacy is exactly because you cannot use data-mining techniques to trace them, like you can with 'used' coins.  And that is what this thread is about, right?

Coins from a generation transaction are never blacklisted, because they cannot, by definition, be tainted coins.

[owm123]

Freshly mined coins have no history, and provide greater privacy and anonymity.

See, I would think just the opposite.  With no history it is much simpler to trace the coin to it's origin address and see who mined it.

Exactly how would you do that?

16cv7wyeG6RRqhvJpY21CnsjxuKj2gAoK2 is an address that has received newly-generated bitcoins.  Can you tell me who mined them?

You missing the point I think. The same you can ask for any other address. Its not about me or you, or random person on the street knowing this. This is about about blockchain analytic companies doint this, such as elliptic, about a merchant who knows your identity behind an address by virtue of transacting with them, or exchanges or surveillance organizations v knowing  this information. And all this information can be used, at worst case, for blacklisting your bitcoins, if they deem bitcoins to dirty.

Andreas Antonopoulos explains that to avoid this:

"we really need to address the issue of fungibility.  Blacklists are inherently evil, as they seed control to the  author of the blacklist and that control is absolute.".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak1iojpiHpM&feature=youtu.be&t=33m6s

And blacklisting is already happening, e.g.,
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting

No, I didn't miss anything.  The whole point of using coins from a generation transaction for privacy is exactly because you cannot use data-mining techniques to trace them, like you can with 'used' coins.  And that is what this thread is about, right?

You right. I was edit my post when you replied. I misunderstood it at first.

[Mikestang]

16cv7wyeG6RRqhvJpY21CnsjxuKj2gAoK2 is an address that has received newly-generated bitcoins.  Can you tell me who mined them?

I didn't mean to imply that I could tell you anything about any coin history, I'm just a hobby miner, but people who know how to trace stuff can figure things out.

To try and answer your question, I would assume that they mined the coins as that seems to me to be the only way to receive them with no prior inputs, and that was the point of my post above.

[xyzzy099]

16cv7wyeG6RRqhvJpY21CnsjxuKj2gAoK2 is an address that has received newly-generated bitcoins.  Can you tell me who mined them?

I didn't mean to imply that I could tell you anything about any coin history, I'm just a hobby miner, but people who know how to trace stuff can figure things out.

To try and answer your question, I would assume that they mined the coins as that seems to me to be the only way to receive them with no prior inputs, and that was the point of my post above.

It doesn't have to be you personally - there is no way anyone can map just an arbitrary bitcoin address to any individual or organization.  Who is the 'they' you refer to above?

With 'old' coins, it is potentially possible to link addresses to individual entities, through data-mining techniques - but not with original generation-transaction coins.

[Mikestang]

The "they" I refered to is the address you posted.  I assume they, the address controller, mined those coins.

there is no way anyone can map just an arbitrary bitcoin address to any individual or organization.

No, but the converse can happen.  If someone know who controls and address and that address generates fresh coins it's just a matter of 1 + 1.

[Mr. Forum]

I am so sure there s always a market for the coins even though it may not be well established. The process and cost of mining the coins is always very high and therefore nobody will leave anything to chance. I am sure that there must even be a better deal where they get to sell these coins. I tried to ask my friend who is active in the mining department and refused to share the experience and where they take them. It means there might be a better deal than we think.

[xyzzy099]

The "they" I refered to is the address you posted.  I assume they, the address controller, mined those coins.

there is no way anyone can map just an arbitrary bitcoin address to any individual or organization.

No, but the converse can happen.  If someone know who controls and address and that address generates fresh coins it's just a matter of 1 + 1.

The point is that knowing the address, in the case of generated coins, generally tells you nothing about who owns that address.  In the case of 'used' coins, that is not necessarily true.

Newly-mined coins typically either go to a new address auto-generated by the bitcoind, or to an address the miner has specified.  If the miner specifies an address that has he has exposed publicly, then it's true that the ultimate origin of those coins would not necessarily be anonymous, but it is still guaranteed that they are not 'tainted' in any way, by definition, as they have never been spent.

[Funny]

So... People buy fresh coins for the sole purpose of anonymity?

I understand that there would be a market for these coins, so how much more are they worth than a normal coin that's been traded hundreds of times?

[owm123]

So... People buy fresh coins for the sole purpose of anonymity?

I understand that there would be a market for these coins, so how much more are they worth than a normal coin that's been traded hundreds of times?

10% more, at least according to this article:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114806/mint-exchange-service-for-newly-mined-coins-rebuffs-bitcoins-fungibility

[Amph]

So... People buy fresh coins for the sole purpose of anonymity?

I understand that there would be a market for these coins, so how much more are they worth than a normal coin that's been traded hundreds of times?

10% more, at least according to this article:

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114806/mint-exchange-service-for-newly-mined-coins-rebuffs-bitcoins-fungibility

i was expecting more for now, however 10% now may seems underwhelming, but when the value will skyrocket it can be soemthing significant

[the_poet]

Old and dirty coins are worthless, do yourself a favor and get rid of them. I'll be glad to help you by providing an address where you can send that garbage