GOATS!

[franky1]

heifer is classed as charity sponsers/advertisers/campaign managers.. not charity ground troops doing the hard work for the needy.

Do you have proof of this?

read my last message
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131801.msg1413874#msg1413874

its their partners that are the actual ones doing the hard work.

you honestly think heifer pays oxfam to get goats, and then takes the goats away from oxfam to then work with the families that need them..

lol they pay oxfam $50 and oxfam do the work.. end of story

[1715431835]

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[1715431835]

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[1715431835]

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[thoughtfan]

People who have never had a goat may not know how to properly care for one to ensure its health and longevity.  Even though their neighbors may have a goat and have taken care of it, that doesn't mean it's the best method either.  Maybe their neighbor's goats could be living twice as long, and produce better milk in greater quantities if they had the knowledge that this organization could provide.  The thing is, you just don't know - you're only making assumptions.

Poor populations in developing countries learn skills related to their needs more than you and me will even learn in our whole life time. Living there is more than just wait for the waiter to serve the lamb meal you choose in a fancy menu.

[img.../img]

On the percentage going to whom and who does the teaching I can not comment.

However I do know enough through talking to people directly involved in such schemes that for many communities over large swathes of Africa prior to the goats thing they have only kept cattle.  The skills passed down therefore has been related to cattle.  The introduction of goats can make a massive difference due to all the advantages listed in the brochures and can be long-term too but only if the husbandry is done right.  As SgtSpike intimates knowing how to make the most out of the goats, including breeding them, is what makes these programmes self-sustaining.

I don't know who does it at what cost but from what I understand the education part is absolutely essential to the success of these schemes.

[Raoul Duke]

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=3809

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4288

Interesting read... 

[Mjbmonetarymetals]

[BkkCoins]

Poor populations in developing countries learn skills related to their needs more than you and me will even learn in our whole life time. Living there is more than just wait for the waiter to serve the lamb meal you choose in a fancy menu.

Unfortunately this is not true. I've lived in a small third-world village for several years and my experience is that people will often do what gives them the most immediate benefit. So with goats they're likely to butcher it and eat it right away rather than what may be best for the long term. If the program has strings attached like passing on the first born female goat then this won't happen unless monitoring, enforcement or incentives are present.

People in developed countries really do not know how uneducated people in less developed countries actually are, and even more so they don't understand how hard it is to change things. Even when you teach people stuff they will tend to not believe or trust it, and even if they do they tend to keep it private for their own advantage rather than share or pass it on for social advantage. These are difficult traits to successfully teach.

[franky1]

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=3809

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4288

Interesting read...  

i totally agree .. most charities are out to fill their pockets more than spending the cash on the end results they advertise.
i personally do not donate cash to charity for this reason. i do however donate food to food banks, and animal feed/bedding to RSPCA's.

you probably find out if digging deep enough into the facts that a goat only costs $20 and oxfam takes a $30 cut..(not a fact just an stab in the dark so dont quote me)

that beign said some money is better then no money to some of the causes that are not in your town and oxfam is a darn sight better then someone paying $120 for the exact same goat by using heifer as the middle man. atleast with coinlabs $120 donations 2 goats will reach the needy people via oxfam as oppose to heifers one goat. so i hope coinlab change who they donate to.

[augustocroppo]

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.reviews&orgid=3809

I thought that was a reasonable expectation: Where was my donation used? I asked Heifer International roughly where my donation was used so that I could start marking my map, and continue to donate. What Heifer Internation stated was they couldn't tell me where my funds were used. Furthermore, they didn't even provide me any message (card/email/letter) to provide me of proof that I even had made the donation. They told me to print my own statement from the website.

In 1980 I worked as a student in international development in Panama. I met a development worker there who excoriated Heifer International. He said HI's gift of an animal trapped impoverished farmers in a cycle of debt because they could not afford the necessary feed so Heifer gave them a loan for it which they could only pay back by selling the food they produced rather than eating it.

[augustocroppo]

So with goats they're likely to butcher it and eat it right away rather than what may be best for the long term. If the program has strings attached like passing on the first born female goat then this won't happen unless monitoring, enforcement or incentives are present.

Charity organizations are not supposed to enforce agreements on the poor, they are supposed to offer assistance for the poor. Heifer is a non-profit organization, not an enforcement agency.

People in developed countries really do not know how uneducated people in less developed countries actually are, and even more so they don't understand how hard it is to change things.

I am not 'uneducated' because I come from a 'less developed' country. I got an excellent academic, scientific and moral education from Brazilian schools, from my family and from society. Your assumption is based on a false premise, which presumes that only developed nations have 'educated' people'. No... I am sorry for you, but we the Brazilians are very busy with our developing civilization. We are not barbarians, may I say... You are an idiot, sir.

[BkkCoins]

So with goats they're likely to butcher it and eat it right away rather than what may be best for the long term. If the program has strings attached like passing on the first born female goat then this won't happen unless monitoring, enforcement or incentives are present.

Charity organizations are not supposed to enforce agreements on the poor, they are supposed to offer assistance for the poor. Heifer is a non-profit organization, not an enforcement agency.

People in developed countries really do not know how uneducated people in less developed countries actually are, and even more so they don't understand how hard it is to change things.

I am not 'uneducated' because I come from a 'less developed' country. I got an excellent academic, scientific and moral education from Brazilian schools, from my family and from society. Your assumption is based on a false premise, which presumes that only developed nations have 'educated' people'. No... I am sorry for you, but we the Brazilians are very busy with our developing civilization. We are not barbarians, may I say... You are an idiot, sir.

I never said that all people are uneducated in developing countries. Read carefully what I did say. There's plenty of educated people in developing countries but the ones who are uneducated are the ones I'm talking about. And I'm not making stuff up. I've lived the past 10 years in a developing country and have plenty of first hand knowledge. So before calling me an idiot perhaps you should check your own reading comprehension.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heifer_International

In 2010, Heifer International President Jo Luck was named a co-laureate of the prestigious World Food Prize.

Heifer International received the 2006 Social Capitalist award from Fast Company magazine.

Heifer International also received the 2004 Conrad N. Hilton Humanitarian Prize for its efforts to eliminate hunger and help communities become self-sustaining. It was the first US-based organization to win the $1 million award since 1997.[3]

In 2003, Heifer International was named one of Forbes magazine's top 10 charities.[4]

In 2007, the Heifer International Headquarters building was named one of the American Institute of Architects Committee on the Environment Top Ten Green Projects.[5]

In 2008, the Heifer International Headquarters building was named a National AIA (American Institute of Architects) Institute Honor Award Winner.[6]

Seriously, I'm sure we could run EVERY single charitable organization into the ground, including Bitcoin 100.

I believe the key point in starting this thread was to show how one entity has teamed up with another bringing awareness to Bitcoin, but some dickhead--ME--had to present some interesting facts.

When I first starting reading about the 'Give a Goat' programs, I was excited (and still am to some degree) and starting thinking in the 'what if' mode as to how such a program can be intertwined with Bitcoin in a more efficient manner upon seeing the various price points for the same goat.

The bottom line is that CoinLab has their first prospect, an important step in gaining their next, just like when Bitcoin 100 got its first. Surely not ideal, but by no means a failure.

All and all, you have to admit that it's pretty funny that we're arguing over goats which, BTW, I'm wondering what the fuck he's been up to lately.

~Bruno K~

[augustocroppo]

I never said that all people are uneducated in developing countries. Read carefully what I did say. There's plenty of educated people in developing countries but the ones who are uneducated are the ones I'm talking about. And I'm not making stuff up. I've lived the past 10 years in a developing country and have plenty of first hand knowledge. So before calling me an idiot perhaps you should check your own reading comprehension.

You are right. I misinterpreted your post. I recognize that my reading  comprehension failed. I became very emotional with the subject and I unnecessarily called you an idiot. I am sure you had the best intentions when you offered your arguments. I therefore offer my apologies.