ATC777 (OP)
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December 21, 2012, 04:55:57 AM |
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Gotcha! ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) No, I'm not proposing we have "regulations" over the Bitcoin economy in the manner that the US economy is "regulated" by the government and pseudo-government agencies. The beautiful thing about Bitcoin is that it is a free market. A free market it must remain. But all regulation is not inherently evil. The type of self-regulation that takes place in a free market system is actually a good thing. Imagine if Burger King started putting radioactive waste into hamburger patties... if McDonalds were to find out about that they would bring it to the attention of the public and the government, for both ethical and financial reasons. That is a contrived/silly example, but you get the point... As the Bitcoin economy continues to grow and flourish I believe it is important for all market participants to work together to self-regulate our market, in true free market fashion. This means a few things. Here are some of the things I think are the important, and I welcome you to propose your own or criticize my ideas: 1) Love thy neighbor's wallet as thine own!For starters, we should all have the "neighborhood watch mentality". Watch out for your fellow Bitcoin users, and they will watch out for you. If you notice a security vulnerability, notify the people it concerns (those at risk -- usually not good to announce it publicly lol). If you see someone walking into a trap with a shady character, warn them. If you are the victim of a fraud, report it and give the community all the details. There are no "Bitcoin police" -- there is only us! You are your own best defense against fraud, theft and hacking -- look out for your neighbors, whether you like them personally or not, and they will look out for you. If we work together as a community we can make Bitcoin commerce a LOT safer as a team. 2) BBBB (Better Bitcoin Business Bureau)The Bitcoin community needs people to start private agencies which allow consumers to give feedback on businesses (and even individuals) they deal with. But unlike the BBB, we need a much more honest approach. Companies should NOT be allowed to pay to have their enterprise listed with positive feedback/ratings -- this defeats the whole purpose of the system. Instead, it needs to be a legitimate system based purely on user feedback where revenues are raised through advertising and other means. A good feedback agency with comprehensive coverage of the Bit-conomy could make a fortune in advertising revenues alone. 3) Watchdog GroupsThe Bit-conomy also needs so-called "watchdog groups". These would be private groups with the sole mission to monitor the conduct of businesses and individuals in Bitcoin commerce. Their job would be to sniff out frauds, scams and con artists and look out for unethical, immoral and/or harmful business practices. When any such malicious behavior is spotted, watchdogs would report their findings (along with the hard evidence they've gathered) to the community and media. Such organizations can raise money through donations, advertising and other honest venues. 4) Business Regulatory CodesIn addition to the aforementioned consumer safe-guards, members of the Bitcoin community should work together to create sets of regulatory code for Bitcoin businesses. Since it is a free market we cannot force people to follow these so-called "regulations" and "codes". But what we CAN do is reward the companies who DO. The carrot > the stick... If we provide incentive for ethical business practices and good conduct we make the Bit-conomy safer and more stable. One very basic way of doing this is by providing community-based "seals of approval" or "licenses" for businesses and individuals who stick to "the code" and do things right. Consumers will take notice and opt for businesses who are doing the right thing, and those businesses will be rewarded with more profit. 5) The Spirit of Free EnterpriseThe final (and perhaps most important) thing to take away from this is that all of us are members of a brand-new, digital, free market economy; and we should retain our spirit of free enterprise and entrepreneurship! We are part of something great and awe-inspiring which people 1000 years from now will read about in the history books. Bitcoin will change the world forever. We have the unprecedented opportunity to build the economy and monetary system of the future without molestation from government, and we must keep that in mind at all times. Bitcoin is still small, and even those of us who are just showing up are "early adopters"; and we should all be grateful for this opportunity. The decisions we make and actions we take will determine the future of Bitcoin. If you screw people over and do bad business it will discourage people from joining the Bit-conomy. But if we do good business and treat each other fairly the Bitcoin market can boom and we will all have the opportunity to become rich! No, we won't all become rich... but everyone has the opportunity -- so let's not blow it! ![Cool](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cool.gif) Regards, --ATC--
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paraipan
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December 21, 2012, 05:06:26 AM |
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Interesting, writing down the "unwritten rules" of free market.
I submit and approve this message.
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Adrian-x
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December 21, 2012, 05:14:01 PM Last edit: December 21, 2012, 09:48:07 PM by Adrian-x |
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I think you have at least 4 ideas there that fulfill a need. Your job is to find a way to satisfy the need (or at least one of them) and design a business that can sustain you in the manner you think you deserve, that would be the free market solution and taking advantage of the opoopoopportunity you see.
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Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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ATC777 (OP)
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December 21, 2012, 08:51:47 PM |
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I think you have at least 4 ideas there that fulfill a need. Your job is to find a way to satisfy the need (or at least one of them) and design a business that can sustain you in the manner you think you deserve, that would be the free market solution and taking advantage of the opoopo you see.
My company is going to work very hard to expand the Bitcoin economy, because we want to take this technology to the mainstream. But we can't do it all! ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
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Adrian-x
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December 21, 2012, 10:05:55 PM |
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...But we can't do it all! ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Who is "we"? And if anything really needs some doing, some one will find a way to do it and make it mutually beneficial. If it isn't you who figures it out, who will? (Just making the post gives you a head start) No one is going to pay for a service they don't need and no one is going to voluntarily pay a tax for a service they think they may need. I don't mean to discourage but rather encourage you to find a solution you are close but you need to think about the stake holders a little more. Think P2P SSL Certificates or wallet ID's or something (no need to rate my ideas they not proposals) Appealing to investors is one option, but you need a solution first.
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Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
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Akka
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December 21, 2012, 10:26:58 PM |
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3) Watchdog Groups
The Bit-conomy also needs so-called "watchdog groups". These would be private groups with the sole mission to monitor the conduct of businesses and individuals in Bitcoin commerce. Their job would be to sniff out frauds, scams and con artists and look out for unethical, immoral and/or harmful business practices. When any such malicious behavior is spotted, watchdogs would report their findings (along with the hard evidence they've gathered) to the community and media. Such organizations can raise money through donations, advertising and other honest venues.
I think I know just the right people to do this and they will even do it for free.
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marcus_of_augustus
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Eadem mutata resurgo
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December 21, 2012, 10:38:29 PM |
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Ratings services and agencies. Lots of them, the more competitive, brash, intrusive and scathing the better. Holding the bastards feet to the fires. Ruthless routing out of incompetence and corruption is one of the free market's strengths.
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ATC777 (OP)
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December 21, 2012, 11:09:38 PM |
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Ratings services and agencies. Lots of them, the more competitive, brash, intrusive and scathing the better. Holding the bastards feet to the fires. Ruthless routing out of incompetence and corruption is one of the free market's strengths.
+1 for you, sir! You must have a lot of free enterprise in your local tap water! ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) Who is "we"?
My company... we're a small conglomerate (type-S corporation) based in Baton Rouge, LA (USA)... ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) Regards, --ATC--
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CountSparkle
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December 23, 2012, 07:33:50 AM |
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Ratings services and agencies. Lots of them, the more competitive, brash, intrusive and scathing the better. Holding the bastards feet to the fires. Ruthless routing out of incompetence and corruption is one of the free market's strengths.
What is it you are looking for with regards to the rating services?
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inbox
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December 23, 2012, 01:50:17 PM Last edit: June 20, 2013, 01:48:55 PM by inbox |
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marcus_of_augustus
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December 23, 2012, 09:10:10 PM |
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Ratings services and agencies. Lots of them, the more competitive, brash, intrusive and scathing the better. Holding the bastards feet to the fires. Ruthless routing out of incompetence and corruption is one of the free market's strengths.
What is it you are looking for with regards to the rating services? Someone who could give pirate@40 bonds a junk (or ponzi) rating would be a good start ... and have the analysis available to back the ratings up if need be.
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claire
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December 24, 2012, 04:48:40 AM |
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and here we begin the BBG - the bitcoin bilderburg group, or however you spell it.
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I Love Bitcoin ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) 1A5jmQcmZamhTeHaEZvtMEpoqrH2SECcxk Phone Domination 888-221-0319
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Chief Satangkai
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December 24, 2012, 10:48:48 AM |
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Hmm... "look out for unethical, immoral and/or harmful business practices..." Who decides what is unethical and immoral ? What if someone wants to buy heroin, kiddieporn, pay a contract killer or buy a prostitute using bitcoin? We can´t let the "moral majority" or any regulatory policy group set the rules when it comes to the use of bitcoin. It´s a dangerous path... ![Cool](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
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Foxpup
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December 24, 2012, 12:41:05 PM |
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Hmm... "look out for unethical, immoral and/or harmful business practices..." Who decides what is unethical and immoral ? What if someone wants to buy heroin, kiddieporn, pay a contract killer or buy a prostitute using bitcoin? We can´t let the "moral majority" or any regulatory policy group set the rules when it comes to the use of bitcoin. It´s a dangerous path... ![Cool](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cool.gif) He's talking about business practices, not the nature of the business itself. For example, if I pay a contract killer to kill my wife, and he just takes my money without killing her, that would be a breach of contract (which is unethical), and I have a right to complain about his business practices. Frauds such as these are far too common in Bitcoinland, and we must put a stop to it!
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Will pretend to do unspeakable things (while actually eating a taco) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4I am not on the scammers' paradise known as Telegram! Do not believe anyone claiming to be me off-forum without a signed message from the above address! Accept no excuses and make no exceptions!
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Chief Satangkai
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December 24, 2012, 01:18:06 PM |
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He's talking about business practices
Yes i get that but skip the "immoral" bit since there are no "immoral" business in reality. I am OK with the harmful or even "unethical" bit. It all depends on where you stand philosophcally... ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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CountSparkle
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December 24, 2012, 04:52:37 PM |
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Ratings services and agencies. Lots of them, the more competitive, brash, intrusive and scathing the better. Holding the bastards feet to the fires. Ruthless routing out of incompetence and corruption is one of the free market's strengths.
What is it you are looking for with regards to the rating services? Someone who could give pirate@40 bonds a junk (or ponzi) rating would be a good start ... and have the analysis available to back the ratings up if need be. So, a trusted third party that can rate someone without actually having direct dealings with them... Thanks. I'll make sure to include that.
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ATC777 (OP)
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December 24, 2012, 09:36:25 PM |
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Hmm... "look out for unethical, immoral and/or harmful business practices..." Who decides what is unethical and immoral ? What if someone wants to buy heroin, kiddieporn, pay a contract killer or buy a prostitute using bitcoin? We can´t let the "moral majority" or any regulatory policy group set the rules when it comes to the use of bitcoin. It´s a dangerous path... ![Cool](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cool.gif) By "unethical" or "immoral" I mean fraud, scams, et cetera. Selling people junk investments and failing to disclose what they're actually buying. Accepting payment and not shipping the goods. I'm sure all of us can agree those things are unethical and immoral business practices. If someone wants to do heroin it's no concern of mine. I don't decide if that person can handle the drug, and using it only hurts them... If that person steals my Mercedes to buy a bunch of heroin (and survives to tell the tale) then that is a crime, called theft. And I believe that it's not even the government's job to worry about the first thing (drug use, prostitution, et cetera) -- they need to be worried about the second thing (real crimes).
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Chief Satangkai
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December 24, 2012, 11:23:25 PM |
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By "unethical" or "immoral" I mean fraud, scams, et cetera. Selling people junk investments and failing to disclose what they're actually buying. Accepting payment and not shipping the goods. I'm sure all of us can agree those things are unethical and immoral business practices.
I see your point but many users of this great currency agrees that regulation, monitoring, or enforcement of rules in any form is a bad thing. The bitcoin business should not be bound by any ethics! One must remember that bitcoin was originally designed from the outset to route around centralized and authoritarian interference. I like most of the stuff you propose but it's the idea of having a "group" that monitors what's ethical and morally just that scares me... ![Undecided](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/undecided.gif)
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edd
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December 24, 2012, 11:50:18 PM |
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4) Business Regulatory Codes
In addition to the aforementioned consumer safe-guards, members of the Bitcoin community should work together to create sets of regulatory code for Bitcoin businesses. Since it is a free market we cannot force people to follow these so-called "regulations" and "codes". But what we CAN do is reward the companies who DO. The carrot > the stick... If we provide incentive for ethical business practices and good conduct we make the Bit-conomy safer and more stable. One very basic way of doing this is by providing community-based "seals of approval" or "licenses" for businesses and individuals who stick to "the code" and do things right. Consumers will take notice and opt for businesses who are doing the right thing, and those businesses will be rewarded with more profit.
It might be more desirable to simply publish a "Bitcoin Business Code of Ethics" consisting of a generalized checklist of what to look for in an honest business. Companies can post the checklist on their sites and indicate and demonstrate what portions they comply with.
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Still around.
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ATC777 (OP)
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December 24, 2012, 11:55:58 PM |
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By "unethical" or "immoral" I mean fraud, scams, et cetera. Selling people junk investments and failing to disclose what they're actually buying. Accepting payment and not shipping the goods. I'm sure all of us can agree those things are unethical and immoral business practices.
I see your point but many users of this great currency agrees that regulation, monitoring, or enforcement of rules in any form is a bad thing. The bitcoin business should not be bound by any ethics! One must remember that bitcoin was originally designed from the outset to route around centralized and authoritarian interference. I like most of the stuff you propose but it's the idea of having a "group" that monitors what's ethical and morally just that scares me... ![Undecided](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/undecided.gif) Well, that's not really what I'm proposing... I'm proposing multiple, open groups that disseminate information about the perpetrators of bad business practices (e.g., fraud) and can verify track-records of doing good business to help consumers know more about who they're dealing with. Such groups would not have any enforcement power over anyone, no more than freecreditreport.com can arrest you and put you in prison... It might be more desirable to simply publish a "Bitcoin Business Code of Ethics" consisting of a generalized checklist of what to look for in an honest business. Companies can post the checklist on their sites and indicate and demonstrate what portions they comply with.
That's more or less what I'm talking about! "We meet the XYZ Standard because ..." ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
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