A week out West: Oregon militia standoff hits day 7

[BADecker]

But you can use this tool^^ as well, right? Use it to terrorize the government terrorists, before they terrorize you to death.

No, the government has a monopoly on the use of violence. If you attack the government you´re a terrorist because you are using violence without having state authority. Who gave the government this monopoly? You did. And who gave this to you? If you can give something away you must have acquired it somehow to begin with. It´s a difficult question. I seem to be stuck here. Thoughts?

There are more ways than one to terrorize. Consider all the people who go to horror flicks for the terror.

Government people often become terrorized when they start losing their authority. The authority goes away when citizens withdraw the authorization they gave them.

Again, the non-violent terror that Karl Lentz inflicts on government: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twn96nj0jfw&list=PLHrkQxgz0mg6kUBciD-HIvTXByqjcIZ-D&index=10.

[BADecker]

BUSTED! FBI POSING AS MILITIA TRIGGERS FIRE CHIEF DEFECTION TO BUNDY MILITIA

Chris Briels, the Harney County Fire Marshall, resigned his office after he exposed FBI agents pretending to be Militia.

In a statement to Nevada Assemblywoman Michele Fiore, Briels revealed that the Sheriff's office, and Judge Steve Grasty, engaged in a whisper campaign, spreading lies and falsehoods to the community that the militia has been following and harassing people. It turns out it was allegedly the FBI who was doing the harassing.

Local KATU news was on the scene.

Chris Briels, was the Burns Fire Chief from 1984 to 2006. When he retired in 2006 Harney county asked him to stay on as the county Fire Marshall.

The resignation was triggered when Briels saw what he thought was Militia poking around the county Armory. He followed the suspects and pulled them over. It was then, According to Briels, he discovered the men, who were posing as Militia, were actually the FBI.

These are extremely damning allegations coming from a top official from within the inner circle of the Harney County authorities, and shows the lengths the FBI and local officials will go to deceive the public to protect their own interests.

What will happen next is anyone's guess, as for right now, the Bundy Militia just scored huge against the Federal Government, and Harney County Officials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXOHz3kpKbQ

[BADecker]

While this is not Oregon...

Tension between ranchers and federal officials is dangerously high in Nevada

As a local, he figured he was uniquely suited to work with the ranchers who have long resented the federal government's role in land management here.

It didn't quite work out that way.

Now retired from a job as district manager for the BLM, Smith knows all about the tensions that have long defined relations between ranchers in the rural West and the federal government, which manages much of the region's land. Those tensions have boiled over in recent days at a wildlife refuge in Oregon and are at a perpetual simmer here.

Now it is Smith's successor as district manager, Doug Furtado, who has become the enemy for many people in the region.

Although there have been no violence or threats here, the risk is real. Federal employees in Nevada have been attacked in the past over land-use disputes — shot at, their offices and cars bombed.

Read more at http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-nevada-ranchers-blm-20160114-story.html.

[galdur]

[galdur]

Today´s Birthday

Benjamin Franklin

Franklin was one of the Founding Fathers of the United States. A renowned polymath, Franklin was a leading author, printer, political theorist, politician, freemason, postmaster, scientist, inventor, civic activist, statesman, and diplomat. wiki

[zenitzz]

Oregon militia standoff: One dead after Ammon Bundy and others arrested

An associate of the armed Oregon militia occupying a wildlife refuge was shot dead on Tuesday after a shootout with federal agents that resulted in the arrest of the group’s leader Ammon Bundy and a group of protesters.

The shootout appears to have taken place on a highway in rural Oregon – away from the federal refuge the armed militia have been occupying.

FBI officials said they arrested Bundy, his brother Ryan Bundy, Bryan Cavalier, Shawna Cox and Ryan Payne on Tuesday afternoon after they stopped them along the highway.

The agency described the shootout and arrests as resulting from “an enforcement action to bring into custody a number of individuals associated with the armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge” that occurred at 4.25pm PST.

It is was not clear how many rounds were exchanged during the incident.

Police have not identified the individual who died, but said they were “a subject of a federal probable cause arrest”. One individual suffered non-life threatening injuries and was transported to a local hospital for treatment, the FBI said in its statement. He was arrested and is currently in custody.

Reached by phone Tuesday night, Cliven Bundy, Ammon’s father, who led a standoff with the federal government in 2014, said he was devastated by the reports. “My sons are good people and they were there to help … It’s a rotten shame that people there are not trying to harm anybody and now they are shooting them dead.”

He added, “We’re not going to put up with this … This is a pretty big deal for America. This is the way they treat people who try to help? We are tired of the abuse.”

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/26/oregon-militia-standoff-ammon-bundy-arrested-and-one-confirmed-dead-after-shootout

[galdur]

This guy was shot dead, their spokesman. Too bad, hope the others are Okay. And the horses.

#Oregonstandoff spokesman killed and its leaders detained after FBI confrontation http://bit.ly/20sbEls 

[pungopete468]

I thought the term "shootout" described a situation where shots are fired in both directions...

I believe the term "shooting" is appropriate when shots are fired by only one group or actor...

Who knows? But nobody should be surprised... It's as it always has been! Terrible atrocities occur throughout human history entirely because they've been allowed, enabled, and encouraged.

History shows anybody who wishes to know the truth that human suffering flows effortlessly through the channels of opportunity created by the monopolization of either the use of force, or the protection of law.

While this single act of murder may not represent a great human atrocity in itself, I fear our history will reflect back on this era as a time of terrible atrocity, where this event will contribute to a great chain of pain and suffering...

[galdur]

He´s gone, father of 11. He said earlier this month

"I'm just not going to prison," LaVoy Finicum said. "Look at the stars. There's no way I'm going to sit in a concrete cell where I can't see the stars and roll out my bedroll on the ground. That's just not going to happen. I want to be able to get up in the morning and throw my saddle on my horse and go check on my cows. It's OK. I've lived a good life. God's been gracious to me."

[2dogs]

There some activists at an occupied federal wildlife refuge preached rowdyism and brimstone, Robert “LaVoy” Finicum was wistful, almost sad.

Bedecked in his trademark earmuffs and cowboy hat, the Arizona rancher would wonder aloud with a shake of his head why reporters couldn’t simply see the rightness of his position: that the federal government was illegally possessing land it had no right to take.

He insisted he and the other occupiers were helping the people of Harney County, Ore. He often carried a handgun at his side and sometimes set up watch with a long gun across his lap.

He maintained a blog — “One Cowboy’s stand for Freedom” — in which he posted videos of himself denouncing the federal government and demanding that federal land be turned over to local authorities and private ranchers. He also wrote a novel, a post-apocalyptic Western thriller called "Only By Blood and Suffering."

<snip>

Finicum was, for most of his life, a rancher who paid his grazing fees to the federal government. He declared bankruptcy in 2002 with his wife, Dorthea, on a New Mexico business called Southwest Horse and Trails.

Nine years later, in 2011, Finicum had relocated to Arizona and obtained loans from the Farm Services Agency from both Arizona and Utah — his ranch near Colorado City, Ariz., is near the Utah border in a heavily Mormon part of the state. He put up as collateral all of his crops, equipment and inventory.
Robert 'LaVoy' Finicum, militia member in Oregon

Robert "LaVoy" Finicum died during a clash between law enforcement and his group during a traffic stop. Finicum told the Associated Press in early January that the occupation of a wildlife refuge was "intended to be peaceful." He also said, indicating a rifle in his lap, "I'm not going to jail."

Finicum said that his outlook began to change regarding his own grazing fees and the vast swaths of land owned by the federal government when Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy refused to pay $1 million in fees and faced off with federal agents who had rounded up cattle he let graze on federal land.


http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-oregon-refuge-lavoy-finicum-20160127-story.html

EDIT:  I don't usually quote the LA times, but I found this article an easy read.  Is it relatively accurate?
If not, I will replace with another one.

[TECSHARE]

Finicum was unarmed when he was shot according to many reports on the ground and multiple eyewitnesses.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md_ctgLEJIY

[xht]

3 More Arrests in Oregon as Protest Leader Says ‘Go Home’

PRINCETON, Ore. — The armed occupation of a wildlife refuge in eastern Oregon, which flashed into violent confrontation with law enforcement on Tuesday when eight members of the group were arrested and one was killed, appeared to be unraveling on Wednesday night when the jailed leader of the siege advised his followers to go home.

Several hours later, the police announced that they had arrested three more protesters. Over two days, 11 members of the group that has occupied the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge have been arrested.

For weeks, the occupation barely felt like a siege at all: The antigovernment militants came and went as they pleased, driving down snow-packed highways to attend community meetings and even going out for dinner. With little sign that law enforcement was about to move beyond surveillance, the occupation of the refuge became more theater than threat.

That changed Tuesday night when the ringleaders, the Bundy brothers, Ammon and Ryan, were among eight arrested, and a leading protester, LaVoy Finicum, 54, was shot dead by the authorities during a traffic stop on a rural road.

But late Wednesday, after an appearance in Federal District Court in Portland, Ammon Bundy issued a statement through his lawyer, Mike Arnold.

“To those remaining at the refuge, I love you. Let us take this fight from here. Please stand down. Go home and hug your families. This fight is ours for now in the courts. Please go home,” Mr. Bundy said.

Speaking on the telephone from inside the refuge on Wednesday night, an occupier, David Fry, 27, said that seven people remained and that they had been drinking. “We’re camping out tonight here, by this campfire,” he said, adding that they would stay “until someone starts listening or until they slaughter us.”

Group members, passing around a phone, said that they believed Mr. Finicum was murdered and that holding Ammon Bundy in jail was an outrage to them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/28/us/oregon-standoff.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

[vero]

Sorry, they don't get to go home?? Even though they were simply mindless followers, they are still legally adults. They must be held accountable for their crimes.

[TECSHARE]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1JzuQf4DMU

[coinzat]

Oregon militia leader's plea to refuge holdouts: 'I love you ... go home'

Militia leader Ammon Bundy presented a loud-and-clear message to the protesters who continue to stand their ground at the occupied refuge in rural Oregon: It’s time to go home.

After a Wednesday afternoon hearing in federal court in Portland, Mike Arnold, Bundy’s lawyer, read a statement from Bundy, who was arrested on a remote highway on Tuesday afternoon in a confrontation and shootout with police that resulted in the death of protest spokesman LaVoy Finicum.

“To those who remain at the refuge, I love you. Let us take this fight from here,” Arnold said, standing on the steps of the downtown courthouse, reading a written statement from Ammon. “Please stand down. Go home and hug your families. This fight is ours for now, in the courts.”

He added: “LaVoy is one of the greatest men and greatest patriots I have ever seen,” and further called on law enforcement officials to let protesters leave the occupation without facing repercussions. “I am asking the federal government to allow the people at the refuge to go home without being prosecuted.”

The call for an end to the standoff came after the first court appearance of Bundy and six other protesters who were also arrested on Tuesday and are facing federal felony charges of conspiracy to impede officers through the use of force, intimidation or threats.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/27/oregon-militia-standoff-ammon-bundy-arrested-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge-occupation-leave

[galdur]

[BADecker]

Why is the SPLC So Terrified of "Sovereign Citizens?" (Part One)

I'm not sure anyone has broached this topic, and thus no one to my knowledge has put their finger on the exactly the catalyst which creates the desire to dehumanize people who identify themselves as "sovereign citizens," and instead makes them another terrorist group that the world needs to destroy.

To begin with, I am not claiming to be a "sovereign citizen," because that would be an ignorant claim. It would be based on something I heard from someone else, who heard it from a TV somewhere. What I am is simply: "one of the people." When I say this in a court, I'm legally stating that I am a sovereign being. There are multiple US Supreme Court, as well as state supreme court rulings which support this legal conclusion. I would be more than overjoyed if ANYONE out there would like to debate me on any open forum if they disagree. Instead of course… I'm just another "domestic terrorist" you need to FEAR and DESTROY because God forbid, I might keep talking, posting stuff on my blog and making videos.

The only solution to ME is VIOLENCE (if you're the bad guys). This is the purpose for the tragedy you just saw in Oregon. You can't beat me in a court. You can't legally go through the motions and prove your case! If you let me stay free, eventually you're going to have to find a different, more productive occupation, because fewer and fewer people will be knocking on your places of business! If I survive, your very professions become OBSOLETE! The time for fear is over for us. I saw a nation wake up at the cost of one man's life.

...

There are two different types of people in this society from all of my knowledge: parasites and producers. The parasites are folks who produce nothing, or not enough on their own and need to somehow get that from a producer in order to survive. The entire legal profession and everyone employed in it is comprised of parasites. Every politician is a parasite. Can you eat a “law?” Want to grab some salad dressing and munch down the Patriot Act written by some attorney? If politicians and attorneys did not exist would you be able to survive? You'd probably be not just okay, but a heck of a lot happier to boot!

...

Essentially what the Bundys, Lavoy and others were doing in Oregon was to inform people that they were not required to abide by commercial codes (which includes BLM “laws”), they had in fact been TRICKED into private contracts, because they thought they needed these agreements in order to exercise their guaranteed rights! In these agreements they waived those rights in return for certain “benefits” as well as a few duties and obligations, such as following commercial codes. Keep in mind while researching this issue: nowhere in the “violations” against the Bundys and others will you find the word “law.”

Lavoy and the Bundys were encouraging people to revoke these contracts based on a clearly held maxim of law: One must have full knowledge of a contract in order to be legally bound by it. It does not matter what's in the fine print, or that you didn't comprehend the legal-ease. There must be a “meeting of the minds” to have a valid contract. If the INTENT of all parties is not CLEAR, it is a voidable contract. Until you void it however, you are presumed to have a full understanding. How else can someone know you didn't know if you don't tell them?

...

Read more at http://livewithhonor.info/blog.php?id=10.

[TECSHARE]

What you are talking about is the difference between common law and maritime contract law. Common law is the constitution which includes all of your human rights and restrictions of government powers. Maritime, or commercial contract law basically consists of anything anyone can legally consent to in a commercial contract. The problem is the current government is operating under maritime law, but under the color of common law. They rely on tricking people into confusing the two types of law in order to get them to consent to giving up all of their rights under a private contract. This is why they consider "sovereign citizens" so dangerous, because they understand the legal fraud that is being perpetrated under color of law. If they start telling people, and people start understanding, the current legal system as it is known today will have no teeth and all rights will be able to be restored and legally protected.

A small example that you can see for yourself. Next time you are in a court room check out the flag. You will notice it is different than flags you would find at schools or other public buildings. The flag in court will have a gold fringe trim around the outside of it, and this signifies the court is under the jurisdiction of maritime law, not common law, as a standard USA flag would represent. This is an example of one of the subtle ways they inform you of their jurisdiction without straight out telling you. If you aren't paying attention you don't have an option but to be at the mercy of the court, because you have long ago given them consent to take all of your rights just by appearing there and identifying yourself and therefore giving them jurisdiction over you in a court of Maritme law. Imagine it as if Microsoft were taking you to criminal court over violating its Terms Of Service agreement, and then imposing criminal penalties for violating it. What the government is doing is no different, and is just as complicated if not more so.

[BADecker]

What you are talking about is the difference between common law and maritime contract law. Common law is the constitution which includes all of your human rights and restrictions of government powers. Maritime, or commercial contract law basically consists of anything anyone can legally consent to in a commercial contract. The problem is the current government is operating under maritime law, but under the color of common law. They rely on tricking people into confusing the two types of law in order to get them to consent to giving up all of their rights under a private contract. This is why they consider "sovereign citizens" so dangerous, because they understand the legal fraud that is being perpetrated under color of law. If they start telling people, and people start understanding, the current legal system as it is known today will have no teeth and all rights will be able to be restored and legally protected.

A small example that you can see for yourself. Next time you are in a court room check out the flag. You will notice it is different than flags you would find at schools or other public buildings. The flag in court will have a gold fringe trim around the outside of it, and this signifies the court is under the jurisdiction of maritime law, not common law, as a standard USA flag would represent. This is an example of one of the subtle ways they inform you of their jurisdiction without straight out telling you. If you aren't paying attention you don't have an option but to be at the mercy of the court, because you have long ago given them consent to take all of your rights just by appearing there and identifying yourself and therefore giving them jurisdiction over you in a court of Maritme law. Imagine it as if Microsoft were taking you to criminal court over violating its Terms Of Service agreement, and then imposing criminal penalties for violating it. What the government is doing is no different, and is just as complicated if not more so.

Actually, the Constitution is NOT common law. The Constitution only alludes to common law.

Common law is the law that everyday people do when they do their everyday living among themselves. At times it is very similar to some of the law that flows out of the Constitution.

In order to mix the people up, legal people called court cases common law. This common law is legalized common law. At times it can be similar to the common law of the people. But it is extremely different as well.

Next time you are charged with something, and there is a case pending against you, write to the one who is bringing the case against you. Attempt to settle out of court, especially if you are innocent of the thing that you are being accused of.

Since all government is static (it can't do anything of itself), and the only time government can appear to do something is when a man or woman does it, write to the man or woman, not to their governmental office; write to them man/woman to man/woman. In a separate batch of letters, you might want to contact their governmental office, as well, especially if you are seeking damages for something that they have already done to you regarding their court case.

If they won't return your property to you or compensate you for the wrong that they have done to you, file a suit right on top of their case, and file it with the court clerk... in and on top of their case against you. Your case inside theirs has to be heard first. Write your own rules of court as an attachment/exhibit in your case.

Whatever you do, do it against the man/woman who has harmed you, either in addition to or in place of, against their governmental office. If the judge usurps his position of simple arbitrator in your case, it is fraud against the court. Charge him with contempt of court, and if he won't accept, bring another case against the man. He is wronging you, and may be harming you.

This is common law of the people. Learn the details of what it is about at these two websites - http://voidjudgments.com/ and http://1215.org/. These people have the information. They don't use it correctly to make it the common law of the people. But they have it.

Karl Lentz is one of the few who has it and uses it properly (the common law of the people). It is extremely simple. The common law of the people goes like this:
1. You wronged me.
2. Compensate me for the wrong done to me, and extra for my time, etc.

Karl - http://www.broadmind.org/.

First your letters, and finally court, all exist to make a record of what is going on so that the jury (or the judge if you opt for him making the judgment) can judge based on the facts.

[TECSHARE]

I should have been more specific and specified that The Constitution is an example of common law, not the basis of it.