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Author Topic: Why saving seed in mail (secret words) isn't safe ?  (Read 995 times)
Curious8 (OP)
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January 14, 2016, 09:25:40 PM
 #1

Every possible wallet warn about that but in fact this is even safer than storing it at home on a paper,
Think about it, you can write a poem with the secret words involved,  or put them involved with 1000 unrelated words or in unreleated Ebook and even miss word or two and remember them
sahliano
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January 14, 2016, 09:46:22 PM
 #2

Every possible wallet warn about that but in fact this is even safer than storing it at home on a paper,
Think about it, you can write a poem with the secret words involved,  or put them involved with 1000 unrelated words or in unreleated Ebook and even miss word or two and remember them

it's like trying to barry a secret treasure and you need to crack the code to get the location of the treasure
i think people just over complicte things that makes them lose their password and then blames themself for  it
Indianacoin
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January 14, 2016, 09:53:55 PM
 #3

Every possible wallet warn about that but in fact this is even safer than storing it at home on a paper,
Think about it, you can write a poem with the secret words involved,  or put them involved with 1000 unrelated words or in unreleated Ebook and even miss word or two and remember them

Don't worry I have all seeds saved in email in form of a story and some highlights are done on those keywords. Wink
Actually they do not advice you to do so because if someone compromises your email account or the email provider then he will get all the details in no time. But I think writing on a paper is more vulnerable to theft, losing, and getting torn/damaged!

I do not worry about it because I have 4 counts of security measures.

1. I am using Gmail and nobody will ever be able to compromise Google. Wink

2. I have wrote them in form of a short story which will be hard to figure out except me.

3. I have encrypted the whole story with my PGP key and saved there.

4. I have 2FA enabled with my mobile which I do not use outside my house.
NorrisK
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January 14, 2016, 10:15:04 PM
 #4

Every possible wallet warn about that but in fact this is even safer than storing it at home on a paper,
Think about it, you can write a poem with the secret words involved,  or put them involved with 1000 unrelated words or in unreleated Ebook and even miss word or two and remember them

Don't worry I have all seeds saved in email in form of a story and some highlights are done on those keywords. Wink
Actually they do not advice you to do so because if someone compromises your email account or the email provider then he will get all the details in no time. But I think writing on a paper is more vulnerable to theft, losing, and getting torn/damaged!

I do not worry about it because I have 4 counts of security measures.

1. I am using Gmail and nobody will ever be able to compromise Google. Wink

2. I have wrote them in form of a short story which will be hard to figure out except me.

3. I have encrypted the whole story with my PGP key and saved there.

4. I have 2FA enabled with my mobile which I do not use outside my house.

Really good plan... Did you hear about how easy dropbox employees had access to peoples files that were stored there? The same is probably true for your e-mail.

Also, just saying this may put a target on your account. Hacks can always happen, social engineering may even be your biggest enemy here.

You do what you got to do, but I wouldn't advise this. You probably don't need to log into your gmail at your home pc or laptop right? If someone steals that, they have acces to your key. And you probably didn't "hide" it sufficiently once this happens.
Curious8 (OP)
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January 14, 2016, 10:21:21 PM
 #5

let 1000 geeks try to decode this and they won't succeed
and why should his email gethacked when he keep him safe and probably equipped with the newest antivurus
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January 14, 2016, 10:22:14 PM
 #6

1. I am using Gmail and nobody will ever be able to compromise Google. Wink

apart from google itself which is well documented as happening..
i really wonder why people love storing private keys on third party services.

its funny that you would trust google who is known to read emails far more then relatives in your own house.
its funny that you would put the seed into a encoded narrative, but feel that your family have a higher technical understanding to decode it, compared to google

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
Indianacoin
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January 14, 2016, 10:26:36 PM
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Really good plan... Did you hear about how easy dropbox employees had access to peoples files that were stored there? The same is probably true for your e-mail.

I don't think so. Google employees are not that creepy IMHO. Never seen anyone suing google for their compromised email accounts or Google-Drive files and photos. All you can see in news are occurring by other private parties like Apple (ICloud), Dropbox, Skydrive/Onedrive etc.

Also, just saying this may put a target on your account. Hacks can always happen, social engineering may even be your biggest enemy here.

Do you know my real personal email? Wink Heck even I never shared that email to my peers also. Tongue
Also I have been trained on how to tackle social engineering injections. Wink

You do what you got to do, but I wouldn't advise this. You probably don't need to log into your gmail at your home pc or laptop right? If someone steals that, they have acces to your key. And you probably didn't "hide" it sufficiently once this happens.

Never going to happen. All he has to do is to get access to both my PC/Laptop and my phone at the same time because you need that Google Auth code for an access every time. And everyday I always delete every history, passwords, caches etc. before I go to bed. Apparently he has to kill me before getting that access because I don't let anyone to play games even on my PC/Laptop.



apart from google itself which is well documented as happening..
i really wonder why people love storing private keys on third party services.

its funny that you would trust google who is known to read emails far more then relatives in your own house.
its funny that you would put the seed into a encoded narrative, but feel that your family have a higher technical understanding to decode it, compared to google

franky, you missed my 3rd point out there. Cheesy Can Google compromise my PGP key? I have not saved it there.
Indianacoin
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January 14, 2016, 10:41:12 PM
 #8

probably equipped with the newest antivurus

Yes I have a premium version of Norton Internet Security + Bitdefender compiled together.

Hopefully they are not flawed like Cena...





I have tried using many paper wallets but they all got damaged in no time.
So I chose this option at last. If anyone having any other suggestions please share with us.
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January 14, 2016, 11:01:10 PM
 #9

They advice you not to storing on mail, because normal users don't have a good protection on their mail. Ask to your friends how many have a 2FA protection on their mail activated. And be sure that some users will store it with a subject "Bitcoin Private Key".
vapourminer
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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?


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January 15, 2016, 01:55:02 AM
 #10

I have tried using many paper wallets but they all got damaged in no time.

use high rag content bond paper. print on a laser printer. seal in multiple layers of baggies or seal in plastic laminate.
Indianacoin
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January 15, 2016, 06:40:13 AM
 #11

They advice you not to storing on mail, because normal users don't have a good protection on their mail. Ask to your friends how many have a 2FA protection on their mail activated. And be sure that some users will store it with a subject "Bitcoin Private Key".

My subject is similar to this one "kjzsdrhb" Tongue
Although its a tedious job to make access via 2FA every time but I literally enjoy doing that many times.


use high rag content bond paper. print on a laser printer. seal in multiple layers of baggies or seal in plastic laminate.

Wow. I thing you are talking about this one --- http://www.lcipaper.com/digital-print-cotton-paper.html
This is a better idea IMHO for those who do not feel safe on emails. Maybe I will try it later.
SuperCoinGuy
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January 15, 2016, 07:04:26 AM
 #12

Does cotton paper last forever? Surely normal paper will fade with time and can be damaged.
topiOleg
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January 15, 2016, 07:14:32 AM
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Does cotton paper last forever? Surely normal paper will fade with time and can be damaged.

Nothing last forever, but when you laminate normal paper, it will outlast you (unless burn in fire obviously).

Amph
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January 15, 2016, 08:44:59 AM
 #14

Does cotton paper last forever? Surely normal paper will fade with time and can be damaged.

paper wallet can last 100 years, you surely have other thign to worry about than your paper wallet

usb instead are know to report some malfunction after some times, let's say 10 years at max
bitlancr
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January 15, 2016, 09:15:14 AM
 #15

They say that because your email could easily be compromised, it's really up to you how you want to keep  those keys safe. That's the freedom you get with bitcoins and a wallet. It's purely up to you. You can't blame anyone else if you lose your keys or anything like that.
vapourminer
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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?


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January 15, 2016, 11:51:38 AM
 #16

use high rag content bond paper. print on a laser printer. seal in multiple layers of baggies or seal in plastic laminate.

Wow. I thing you are talking about this one --- http://www.lcipaper.com/digital-print-cotton-paper.html
This is a better idea IMHO for those who do not feel safe on emails. Maybe I will try it later.

thats a bit overkill methinks

do a search for 20 pound watermarked paper, that should find some quality stuff. its what I use.  get it at any office supply place.
Curious8 (OP)
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January 15, 2016, 01:05:48 PM
 #17

up
notaek
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January 15, 2016, 06:04:09 PM
 #18

I would rather suggest not to save your password on emails because, modern password crackers are much more efficient these days.

The efficiency of password cracking depends on two largely independent things: power and efficiency.

Power is simply computing power. As computers have become faster, they're able to test more passwords per second; one program advertises eight million per second. These crackers might run for days, on several machines, simultaneously. For a high-profile police case, they might run for months.

Efficiency is the ability to guess passwords cleverly. It doesn't make sense to run through every eight-letter combination from "aaaaaaaa" to "zzzzzzzz" in order. That's 200 billion possible passwords, most of them are very much unlikely. Password crackers try the most common passwords first.

Modern password crackers combine different words from their dictionaries. They can crack these passcodes such as; "k1araj0hns0n," "Sh1a-labe0uf," "Apr!l221973," "Qbesancon321," "DG091101%," "@Yourmom69," "ilovetofunot," "windermere2313," "tmdmmj17," "qeadzcwrsfxv1331." "gonefishing1125" etc. within seconds.

Nowadays, the attacker will feed any personal information he has access to about the password creator into the password crackers. A good password cracker will test names and addresses from the address book, meaningful dates, and any other personal information it has. Postal codes are common appendages. If it can, the guesser will index the target hard drive and create a dictionary that includes every printable string, including deleted files. If you ever saved an e-mail with your password, or kept it in an obscure file somewhere, or if your program ever stored it in memory, this process will grab it. And it will speed the process of recovering your password.

One solution for not saving your passwords on your email account would be to choose something that these password crackers will miss to formulate. My advice is to take a sentence and turn it into a password. Something like "This little piggy went to market" might become "tlpWENT2m". That nine-character password won't be in any cracker's dictionary. Of course, don't use this one, because I've written about it. Choose your own sentence, something personal.



tl;dr: Make your own password which is easier to remember but harder to crack. (even with super computers Wink)

notaek
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January 15, 2016, 07:47:04 PM
 #19

If you save it in an encrypted file with strong password you should be fine keeping it on an e-mail account. Even if someone gets the file they won't be able to get data.

True.
But what if your PC gets crashed and you had to format it, eventually losing the private key of your encryption software?
You just got screwed!

Yes, there might be one way to prevent this and that is to have a backup computer or laptop and using it for restoring your keys. Or, installing the software directly onto your flash drive but the latter option is more vulnerable in case you unknowingly use that flash drive on any compromised PC.

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January 15, 2016, 07:48:56 PM
 #20

Every possible wallet warn about that but in fact this is even safer than storing it at home on a paper,
Think about it, you can write a poem with the secret words involved,  or put them involved with 1000 unrelated words or in unreleated Ebook and even miss word or two and remember them

it's like trying to barry a secret treasure and you need to crack the code to get the location of the treasure
i think people just over complicte things that makes them lose their password and then blames themself for  it


yep. just write it down on 2-3 different papers and store them somewhere. of course you should not write "THIS IS MY SEED TO ALOT MONEY AND COINS!" on that piece of paper  Roll Eyes

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