You guys gonna become paranoid about Ripple

[Coinseeker]

December 25th 2012...bravo ElectricMucus.  Prophesy fulfilled.  Big time!     Although I think we passed paranoid quite awhile ago.  Now it's just sheer terror, masked by half-truths and lies.   

[Its About Sharing]

After going through this thread (and reading many of the other Ripple threads), something I get is this:

The pro Ripple people seem to get Ripple.
The BTC people don't seem to get Ripple.

Now, the second thing is alarming, because a lot of BTC people are very very computer literate if not IT guys. I am a bit alarmed at how Ripple is going to work with regular people in light of this. This point alone puts up my "Danger Danger" alarm and I think rightfully so. The burden of proof is on the Ripple guys and thus far I just don't see the proof.

I would say Ripple probably needs to make a lot of its functionality transparent to the end user. As of now it seems that isn't the case.

Personally, I don't like the sound of mixing "IOU's" with BTC. That just seems extremely dangerous and counterproductive.

I do see some of the point of Ripple but am not enamored by any of it at this time. A more simplified decentralized exchange seems to be in order. NOT controlled by a company.

Its about sharing.

[Coinseeker]

After going through this thread (and reading many of the other Ripple threads), something I get is this:

The pro Ripple people seem to get Ripple.
The BTC people don't seem to get Ripple.

Now, the second thing is alarming, because a lot of BTC people are very very computer literate if not IT guys. I am a bit alarmed at how Ripple is going to work with regular people in light of this. This point alone puts up my "Danger Danger" alarm and I think rightfully so. The burden of proof is on the Ripple guys and thus far I just don't see the proof.

I would say Ripple probably needs to make a lot of its functionality transparent to the end user. As of now it seems that isn't the case.

Personally, I don't like the sound of mixing "IOU's" with BTC. That just seems extremely dangerous and counterproductive.

I do see some of the point of Ripple but am not enamored by any of it at this time. A more simplified decentralized exchange seems to be in order. NOT controlled by a company.

Its about sharing.

Now that, is a sensible argument against Ripple.  /thumbsup

[Zaih]

Aint nobody got time for Ripple

[ElectricMucus]

Aint nobody got time for Ripple

Apparently plenty.

The thing about paranoia is under it's influence you can't think straight, just compare the type of answers from the beginning of the thread to how they are now, I notice a big discrepancy.
If I am right there will be an XRP bubble / BTC crunch next, it was the same thing with LTC... ironically fuelled by the paranoia.

[afbitcoins]

I'm not paranoid, everyone just thinks I am 

[EuroTrash]

Aint nobody got time for Ripple

Apparently plenty.

The thing about paranoia is under it's influence you can't think straight, just compare the type of answers from the beginning of the thread to how they are now, I notice a big discrepancy.
If I am right there will be an XRP bubble / BTC crunch next, it was the same thing with LTC... ironically fuelled by the paranoia.

I expect a XRP bubble although not so dramatic. The OpenCoin crowd has the power to slow down growth by means of huge walls. Although the risk is that their own greed prevents them from doing so and they end up killing their own toy (but hopefully not the fresh ideas that it brought on the table).

I do not expect XRP to have the power to crunch BTC though. Because BTC is the MP3 of cryptocurrencies.

After the silent exodus from Gox, I see that the other exchanges' volume and prices are on a steady rise and I think this is a damn good sign for BTC. If BTC price stays stable for a while I think that all we need is infrastructure - like exchanges that are able to issue commonly accepted debit cards denominated in BTC with instant conversion at non-extortion fees. Then we're back on our route to dismissing fiat.

[ElectricMucus]

Yes I don't think XRP will do anything to "crush" BTC. It's even more different and has different kind of people willing to invest in it.

But thats also the thing the people who feel threatened by it don't get. I don't really know how much it will really affect BTC, but from how things look now it's worse than before LTC took off.
I agree on gox also, although not short term, since the exactly kind of thinking process makes somebody think we "need" gox to maintain a good price, don't ask me for the rationale on this it's mainly irrational - anything changing the status quo is potential bad news for those guys.

[afbitcoins]

Yes I don't think XRP will do anything to "crush" BTC. It's even more different and has different kind of people willing to invest in it.

But thats also the thing the people who feel threatened by it don't get. I don't really know how much it will really affect BTC, but from how things look now it's worse than before LTC took off.
I agree on gox also, although not short term, since the exactly kind of thinking process makes somebody think we "need" gox to maintain a good price, don't ask me for the rationale on this it's mainly irrational - anything changing the status quo is potential bad news for those guys.

XRP potential to crush bitcoin would be very hard to understand unless you know, for example why the price of gold and silver has been crushed during a period where all the main fiat currencies are increasing their  quantity of money through quantitative easing. Its too complex to go into much detail here but essentially, many people who don't hold gold think they do when all they really have is an IOU.

The war between using debt as money and using commodity type monetary assests, things that hold value, has gone on probably for centuries. You cant compare Litecoin with Ripples, Litecoin is real money fixed in quantity, potentially good as a store of value just like bitcoins.

It is the power to create money that allows central banks to steal wealth through inflation, just as XRP quantity can be inflated by the Opencoin controllers, this gives Opencoin the power to steal wealth through inflation. The temptation will be too much to resist. Money power preys on weak willed greed, its only human. Debt is a way to enslave. Ripple is a way to replace bitcoins with debt

[San1ty]

Ripple shouldn't be getting the traction that it's getting.
This is a classic example of greed supporting a scam.

[moocowpong1]

Yes I don't think XRP will do anything to "crush" BTC. It's even more different and has different kind of people willing to invest in it.

But thats also the thing the people who feel threatened by it don't get. I don't really know how much it will really affect BTC, but from how things look now it's worse than before LTC took off.
I agree on gox also, although not short term, since the exactly kind of thinking process makes somebody think we "need" gox to maintain a good price, don't ask me for the rationale on this it's mainly irrational - anything changing the status quo is potential bad news for those guys.

XRP potential to crush bitcoin would be very hard to understand unless you know, for example why the price of gold and silver has been crushed during a period where all the main fiat currencies are increasing their  quantity of money through quantitative easing. Its too complex to go into much detail here but essentially, many people who don't hold gold think they do when all they really have is an IOU.

The war between using debt as money and using commodity type monetary assests, things that hold value, has gone on probably for centuries. You cant compare Litecoin with Ripples, Litecoin is real money fixed in quantity, potentially good as a store of value just like bitcoins.

It is the power to create money that allows central banks to steal wealth through inflation, just as XRP quantity can be inflated by the Opencoin controllers, this gives Opencoin the power to steal wealth through inflation. The temptation will be too much to resist. Money power preys on weak willed greed, its only human. Debt is a way to enslave. Ripple is a way to replace bitcoins with debt

XRP is not debt. Once Ripple leaves OpenCoin's control, they will not have the ability to change the number of XRP in the system. They may still own a large portion of the XRP, which will give them significant leverage on the price if they choose to use it, but this is very different from having an unlimited ability to print money. For example, you know at any moment what fraction of the XRP you control, and that fraction can never be diluted without your permission.

[ElectricMucus]

Yes I don't think XRP will do anything to "crush" BTC. It's even more different and has different kind of people willing to invest in it.

But thats also the thing the people who feel threatened by it don't get. I don't really know how much it will really affect BTC, but from how things look now it's worse than before LTC took off.
I agree on gox also, although not short term, since the exactly kind of thinking process makes somebody think we "need" gox to maintain a good price, don't ask me for the rationale on this it's mainly irrational - anything changing the status quo is potential bad news for those guys.

XRP potential to crush bitcoin would be very hard to understand unless you know, for example why the price of gold and silver has been crushed during a period where all the main fiat currencies are increasing their  quantity of money through quantitative easing. Its too complex to go into much detail here but essentially, many people who don't hold gold think they do when all they really have is an IOU.

The war between using debt as money and using commodity type monetary assests, things that hold value, has gone on probably for centuries. You cant compare Litecoin with Ripples, Litecoin is real money fixed in quantity, potentially good as a store of value just like bitcoins.

It is the power to create money that allows central banks to steal wealth through inflation, just as XRP quantity can be inflated by the Opencoin controllers, this gives Opencoin the power to steal wealth through inflation. The temptation will be too much to resist. Money power preys on weak willed greed, its only human. Debt is a way to enslave. Ripple is a way to replace bitcoins with debt

It's not debt which you ought to be concerned about but compounding interest on debt. Debt is only natural and it will not go away as currency will not go away.

[bitcoinbear]

This is a very interesting thread.

The key learning I think I got from reading this is that the term "Trust" when used in ripple might have beena bad choice, instead one should think of it as "Line-of-Credit", anytime you grant trust to somebody it is like handing them a credit card linked to your bank account.

The proper use of Ripple, to avoid being scammed, is to have Trust to only one gateway, one which you actually trust to redeem the IOUs you receive. That way there is no way for debt to be rippled through your account. Only trust more than one gateway after you are confortable with the system and you know how rippling works.

The benefit in the Ripple system over just using bitcoins directly can be seen in trying to receive and send small transactions quickly. The bitcoin protocol requires fees for unaged coins, while ripple allows funds to be sent immediately after they are received.

[ElectricMucus]

The proper use of Ripple, to avoid being scammed, is to have Trust to only one gateway, one which you actually trust to redeem the IOUs you receive. That way there is no way for debt to be rippled through your account. Only trust more than one gateway after you are confortable with the system and you know how rippling works.

Not really.
You just have to base your trust on rational thinking rather than greed. Some folks are confused on what trust means.

Hint: You ought not to trust all your funds not even cumulative.

[moocowpong1]

The proper use of Ripple, to avoid being scammed, is to have Trust to only one gateway, one which you actually trust to redeem the IOUs you receive. That way there is no way for debt to be rippled through your account. Only trust more than one gateway after you are confortable with the system and you know how rippling works.

Not really.
You just have to base your trust on rational thinking rather than greed. Some folks are confused on what trust means.

Hint: You ought not to trust all your funds not even cumulative.

You should definitely only "trust" entities which you actually trust to honor their IOUs, but additionally trusting only one entity per currency is probably a good idea. Trusting more than one increases default risk substantially, because if either defaults, you probably lose all of your money.

[MAbtc]

You can lose all your money, but no one defaults on Ripple! 

[ElectricMucus]

The proper use of Ripple, to avoid being scammed, is to have Trust to only one gateway, one which you actually trust to redeem the IOUs you receive. That way there is no way for debt to be rippled through your account. Only trust more than one gateway after you are confortable with the system and you know how rippling works.

Not really.
You just have to base your trust on rational thinking rather than greed. Some folks are confused on what trust means.

Hint: You ought not to trust all your funds not even cumulative.

You should definitely only "trust" entities which you actually trust to honor their IOUs, but additionally trusting only one entity per currency is probably a good idea. Trusting more than one increases default risk substantially, because if either defaults, you probably lose all of your money.

Did you read the hint part too?
Another hint: The quotes do not apply

[afbitcoins]

Yes I don't think XRP will do anything to "crush" BTC. It's even more different and has different kind of people willing to invest in it.

But thats also the thing the people who feel threatened by it don't get. I don't really know how much it will really affect BTC, but from how things look now it's worse than before LTC took off.
I agree on gox also, although not short term, since the exactly kind of thinking process makes somebody think we "need" gox to maintain a good price, don't ask me for the rationale on this it's mainly irrational - anything changing the status quo is potential bad news for those guys.

XRP potential to crush bitcoin would be very hard to understand unless you know, for example why the price of gold and silver has been crushed during a period where all the main fiat currencies are increasing their  quantity of money through quantitative easing. Its too complex to go into much detail here but essentially, many people who don't hold gold think they do when all they really have is an IOU.

The war between using debt as money and using commodity type monetary assests, things that hold value, has gone on probably for centuries. You cant compare Litecoin with Ripples, Litecoin is real money fixed in quantity, potentially good as a store of value just like bitcoins.

It is the power to create money that allows central banks to steal wealth through inflation, just as XRP quantity can be inflated by the Opencoin controllers, this gives Opencoin the power to steal wealth through inflation. The temptation will be too much to resist. Money power preys on weak willed greed, its only human. Debt is a way to enslave. Ripple is a way to replace bitcoins with debt

It's not debt which you ought to be concerned about but compounding interest on debt. Debt is only natural and it will not go away as currency will not go away.

Debt is natural but using it as money isn't. Loans should be made from accumulated capital not credit conjured out of thin air. Creditors should accept the risk of losing their bad loans not getting bailed out.

I'm curious who the investors are behind ripple? I know of google are funding opencoin, but who else? Is it the banks?

[smoothie]

OpenCoin lol...is the most contradictory use of the word Open I have ever heard.


LOLz talk about misleading eh?

The name itself...lol

[BitcoinAshley]

For the record, anyone who thinks Ripple is a serious threat to bitcoin is off their rocker. IM not so Humble O. But lack of a threat doesn't mean I can't make fun of it. 

OpenCoin lol...is the most contradictory use of the word Open I have ever heard.


LOLz talk about misleading eh?

The name itself...lol

Shh, we're supposed to ignore that part, and *trust* that they will one day become open source and decentralized