You guys gonna become paranoid about Ripple

[bitcoinBull]

You have to trust an exchange if you're going to trade bitcoins. Its no different with ripple, except its called a gateway, and once you get your IOUs you're free to send and trade them just like bitcoins. Looking at the current state of mtgox and bitstamp prices, that is something the ecosystem really could use: a method other than bank and wire transfers for moving around fiat IOUs.

But Fiat Gateway Ripple IOUs will not all be equal.
If I were the GreatCloudBitcoinExchange.com I would value Ripple IOUs from German or Canadian Gateways, for example, much higher than USA gateways. This would have to be passed on somehow to those using the USA Gateway, hence the whole Ripple network has done nothing to prevent the difference in pricing and risk when using exchanges in different countries and with different companies.
For any other transaction the local gateway could still use bitcoin, where no trust is required, to move funds across the world to another company.

That's right, different gateway IOUs will be valued differently to different people in different places. That's why the prices will vary on the ripple order books. The most trusted gateways will have the most valuable IOUs.

If funds can only be moved across the world using bitcoins, then we are the mercy of exchanges (you STILL have to trust an exchange). What if you are in a place where the exchange has funky prices? Or is taking forever to process your fund withdrawal? Ripple brings more exchanges on board, and it gives people the power to do what they like with exchange IOUs.

I don't understand how producing more debt that requires more trust and will require just as much regulation and information sharing does anything that the Dirty Legacy Fiat system doesn't do already.

Because it decentralizes IOUs. With ripple, exchanges can't seize IOUs because now IOUs are crypto-coins. The same power that decentralization gives to bitcoins, ripple gives to exchange deposits.

And those collecting debt will still need baseball bats, guns etc to collect.

The beauty of Satoshi's bitcoins is it enables global transactions WITHOUT the need for debt or trust, freeing the masses from the Legacy Banking system so they individuals can concentrate on generating real meaningful wealth, not simulated fake banking profits supported by inflation and our future poverty.

And what happens if an exchange seizes your bitcoin deposit or fiat funds? The same scenario exists in the current world, you would have to go after them with some sternly-worded e-mails to get them to release your funds (and funds are just a deposit aka debt). The world where bitcoins are useful without debt or trust is a straw-man world. Try to trade bitcoins over the internet without trusting an exchange. Ripple just makes that trust explicit (that's a good thing).

Ripple will do great things for bitcoin - its a tool for trading them which puts bank and wire transfers to shame. It is true that bitcoin alone is theoretically capable of completely replacing bank and wire transfers. But that is a theory which is far-off in the future, the Legacy Banking system is still here and it is powerful. Ripple is here now (its not just a proposal), and it gives power to the users (again, on ripple you control your IOUs). It is not perfect, but it is a leap of a stepping-stone to a much better world.

[1714910648]

1714910648

[1714910648]

1714910648

[1714910648]

1714910648

[1714910648]

1714910648

[1714910648]

1714910648

[zachcope]

You have to trust an exchange if you're going to trade bitcoins. Its no different with ripple, except its called a gateway, and once you get your IOUs you're free to send and trade them just like bitcoins. Looking at the current state of mtgox and bitstamp prices, that is something the ecosystem really could use: a method other than bank and wire transfers for moving around fiat IOUs.

But Fiat Gateway Ripple IOUs will not all be equal.
If I were the GreatCloudBitcoinExchange.com I would value Ripple IOUs from German or Canadian Gateways, for example, much higher than USA gateways. This would have to be passed on somehow to those using the USA Gateway, hence the whole Ripple network has done nothing to prevent the difference in pricing and risk when using exchanges in different countries and with different companies.
For any other transaction the local gateway could still use bitcoin, where no trust is required, to move funds across the world to another company.

That's right, different gateway IOUs will be valued differently to different people in different places. That's why the prices will vary on the ripple order books. The most trusted gateways will have the most valuable IOUs.

If funds can only be moved across the world using bitcoins, then we are the mercy of exchanges (you STILL have to trust an exchange). What if you are in a place where the exchange has funky prices? Or is taking forever to process your fund withdrawal? Ripple brings more exchanges on board, and it gives people the power to do what they like with exchange IOUs.

I don't understand how producing more debt that requires more trust and will require just as much regulation and information sharing does anything that the Dirty Legacy Fiat system doesn't do already.

Because it decentralizes IOUs. With ripple, exchanges can't seize IOUs because now IOUs are crypto-coins. The same power that decentralization gives to bitcoins, ripple gives to exchange deposits.

And those collecting debt will still need baseball bats, guns etc to collect.

The beauty of Satoshi's bitcoins is it enables global transactions WITHOUT the need for debt or trust, freeing the masses from the Legacy Banking system so they individuals can concentrate on generating real meaningful wealth, not simulated fake banking profits supported by inflation and our future poverty.

And what happens if an exchange seizes your bitcoin deposit or fiat funds? The same scenario exists in the current world, you would have to go after them with some sternly-worded e-mails to get them to release your funds (and funds are just a deposit aka debt). The world where bitcoins are useful without debt or trust is a straw-man world. Try to trade bitcoins over the internet without trusting an exchange. Ripple just makes that trust explicit (that's a good thing).

Ripple will do great things for bitcoin - its a tool for trading them which puts bank and wire transfers to shame. It is true that bitcoin alone is theoretically capable of completely replacing bank and wire transfers. But that is a theory which is far-off in the future, the Legacy Banking system is still here and it is powerful. Ripple is here now (its not just a proposal), and it gives power to the users (again, on ripple you control your IOUs). It is not perfect, but it is a leap of a stepping-stone to a much better world.

Ripple will be subject to all the same rules as any money transmitter or lender in individual countries.
I fail to see how it will be any different from legacy banking.
Why would I want to trust a Ripple gateway AND an exchange with my dirty fiat money, when I could go directly to an exchange OR buy bitcoins locally?
No self respecting legacy fiat loving government are going to let private citizens start issuing debt. They reserve that right for them and their buddies.

[JoelKatz]

Ripple will be subject to all the same rules as any money transmitter or lender in individual countries.

True, but the big advantage is that the sender and receiver don't have to do business with the same money transmitter, so freedom of choice is much greater.

I fail to see how it will be any different from legacy banking.

One big difference is that people can exchange balances without having to go to or through the issuer. Another is that cross-currency payments can have direct access to market makers with no intermediary where anyone can make markets on a level playing field, fully in the open.

Why would I want to trust a Ripple gateway AND an exchange with my dirty fiat money, when I could go directly to an exchange OR buy bitcoins locally?

You don't have to trust an exchange because all transactions are atomic. You do have to trust a gateway, at least while funds are "in flight".

No self respecting legacy fiat loving government are going to let private citizens start issuing debt. They reserve that right for them and their buddies.

There are people who thought Bitcoin would be shut down too for all kinds of reasons too. The problem for governments is that they can't both prohibit something and regulate it.

[btcgoldsilver]

Ripple will be subject to all the same rules as any money transmitter or lender in individual countries.

True, but the big advantage is that the sender and receiver don't have to do business with the same money transmitter, so freedom of choice is much greater.

I fail to see how it will be any different from legacy banking.

One big difference is that people can exchange balances without having to go to or through the issuer. Another is that cross-currency payments can have direct access to market makers with no intermediary where anyone can make markets on a level playing field, fully in the open.

Why would I want to trust a Ripple gateway AND an exchange with my dirty fiat money, when I could go directly to an exchange OR buy bitcoins locally?

You don't have to trust an exchange because all transactions are atomic. You do have to trust a gateway, at least while funds are "in flight".

No self respecting legacy fiat loving government are going to let private citizens start issuing debt. They reserve that right for them and their buddies.

There are people who thought Bitcoin would be shut down too for all kinds of reasons too. The problem for governments is that they can't both prohibit something and regulate it.

They were called opencoin when they were closed source, now that theyre open source they're called ripplelabs    What are ripples anyway? Who wants to use premined coins ?

[b!z]

Ripple will be subject to all the same rules as any money transmitter or lender in individual countries.

True, but the big advantage is that the sender and receiver don't have to do business with the same money transmitter, so freedom of choice is much greater.

I fail to see how it will be any different from legacy banking.

One big difference is that people can exchange balances without having to go to or through the issuer. Another is that cross-currency payments can have direct access to market makers with no intermediary where anyone can make markets on a level playing field, fully in the open.

Why would I want to trust a Ripple gateway AND an exchange with my dirty fiat money, when I could go directly to an exchange OR buy bitcoins locally?

You don't have to trust an exchange because all transactions are atomic. You do have to trust a gateway, at least while funds are "in flight".

No self respecting legacy fiat loving government are going to let private citizens start issuing debt. They reserve that right for them and their buddies.

There are people who thought Bitcoin would be shut down too for all kinds of reasons too. The problem for governments is that they can't both prohibit something and regulate it.

They were called opencoin when they were closed source, now that theyre open source they're called ripplelabs    What are ripples anyway? Who wants to use premined coins ?

faster tx, send currencies like USD, EUR etc.

although it may not be the best way, it could work.

[Argwai96]

faster tx, send currencies like USD, EUR etc.

although it may not be the best way, it could work.

exactly -- instant transactions and ability to hold/transact in many, many different currencies could be really useful, enough so to be widely adopted. it just isn't widely adopted right now.

[voyagr]

With Ripple & ZipZap integration being a fact with the recent version of the client, there is now an alternative for buying btc's with cash (probably more convenient). You can now deposit cash in one of the 700.000 locations and buy BTC's, convert, transfer, whatever you wishwithin the client...  

[samson]

I had 70,000 Ripple sitting in a wallet from the giveaway early last year and sold them some time ago on btc38.com for Yuan which was worth over $2k at the time.

[ArticMine]

The key difference between Bitcoin and Ripple is that governments will regulate the issuers of Ripple IOUs as money transmitters particularly if these issuers get large enough so that their IOU's are widely trusted. With Bitcoin there in no one to regulate in this category since Bitcoin is equity based.

[redwraith]

Prosper was an enormous failure (for the "investor").  Ripple will follow with those two idiots at the helm.

To this very day, I am using Prosper and making about 12%.  It's hardly a failure.  You either gave up too early or are repeating inaccurate information.

[zachcope]

Ripple gateways have their incentives aligned to work perfectly, until the point of a catastrophic credit crunch.
Alas I have stated elsewhere, gateways are incentivised to hide and cover their bad loans from the network at all costs, as otherwise their ious will become less valuable.
This will lead eventually lead to a credit crunch.
It will have happened by 2020 if ripple survives that long.

[ElectricMucus]

Ripple gateways have their incentives aligned to work perfectly, until the point of a catastrophic credit crunch.
Alas I have stated elsewhere, gateways are incentivised to hide and cover their bad loans from the network at all costs, as otherwise their ious will become less valuable.
This will lead eventually lead to a credit crunch.
It will have happened by 2020 if ripple survives that long.

Or they have an incentive not to have bad loans at all....
I guess we have to wait, see you in 16 years. Good luck hoping Bitcoin is even around by then.

[ElectricMucus]

Just so you guys get a hint on what's happing the ripple labs team does now 50% of world community grid crunching

[ElectricMucus]

Do you mean they are ready to launch a 51% attack? 

They would if boinc were competitive instead of cooperative. Bitcoiners often brag that mining is the largest distributed computing project on earth, but besides lining the pockets of the participants it does very little good. WCG on the other hand contributes to finding cures for diseases,  research into clean energy and so on...

[pbody]

Just so you guys get a hint on what's happing the ripple labs team does now 50% of world community grid crunching

and how are they doing this?

[ElectricMucus]

Just so you guys get a hint on what's happing the ripple labs team does now 50% of world community grid crunching

and how are they doing this?

They pay everybody who participates a fraction of 1,250,000 xrp every day, which essentially becomes "mining" for xrp.

[HairyMaclairy]

What is with the Ripple fanboys and their relentless need to post about Ripple all over the bitcoin forums.  It's almost like they are trying to pump up the value of XRP. 

[ElectricMucus]

What is with the Ripple fanboys and their relentless need to post about Ripple all over the bitcoin forums.  It's almost like they are trying to pump up the value of XRP. 

I remember this rhetoric before Litecoin became big, and those who used it are now too butthurt to even post on the forums....

[bassclef]

What is with the Ripple fanboys and their relentless need to post about Ripple all over the bitcoin forums.  It's almost like they are trying to pump up the value of XRP. 

The ignore button is a useful feature.

[ElectricMucus]

What is with the Ripple fanboys and their relentless need to post about Ripple all over the bitcoin forums.  It's almost like they are trying to pump up the value of XRP. 

The ignore button is a useful feature.

If you are posting in a thread created by somebody you are committed to ignore you are doing it wrong.