In the gun debate who do you think is the most stupid?

[Herodes]

...as you can see, a statistically rare event, even in wartime.

Yes, did you consider partaking in a combat zone ? After all, the chances of getting hit by a bullet and killed ain't that big..

[Lethn]

If the more realistic war films etc. are anything to go by all you do is just stand around for ages taking shit from officers lol

[vampire]

Fun fact: Over 5000 bullets were fired for each soldier killed in WWII. It took over 12000 to take down a plane.

Guns are designed to fire bullets. They do that every time they are used. They only kill when the user points the barrel at another human being and uses them for their intended purpose: to fire a bullet, and that bullet strikes the other human being in a lethal spot, as you can see, a statistically rare event, even in wartime.

You had a chance of survival of 10% if you were a soviet soldier on June 22nd 1941.

Let me make it clear: 90% chance of being dead by 1947.

[augustocroppo]

Yes, as a matter of fact.

There is a Marvel character who uses a bow for numerous special purposes, which killing is but one of. In one scene of the recent Avengers movie, he uses it to download a virus onto a computer by firing a specially designed arrow into a dataport. So you see, it is the intent of the user that determines the use of a weapon.

The discussion is about REAL weapons, not FICTIONAL weapons. If bows were not designed to kill, for what purpose bows were designed for? Which results the bow designer intended to obtain with an arrow thrown from his invention?

Guns are designed to fire projectiles. It is the intent of the person behind the gun that determines it's purpose.

You are confusing the purpose of the designer with the purpose of the final user. These are two different subjects. The purpose of the final user does not determine the purpose of the designer (or the purpose of the design). Most of all firearms were invented (and are invented) to kill. In other words, the intention of the final user have no influence over the intention of the designer. The purpose of the designer come first than the purpose of the final user.

purpose
noun
1 the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists.

design
noun
1 a plan or drawing produced to show the look and function or workings of a building, garment, or other object before it is made.

The fluid will tend to be driven through the core 1 thus giving a maximum flattening or mushrooming effect to the bullet when the latter engages a target. This gives great killing power to the bullet when the latter is used for hunting game and the like.

'A plan produced to show the function of a bullet, for which something is done' to 'gives great killing power to the bullet when the latter is used for hunting game and the like.'

Take, for instance, these:

Fired from a standard shotgun, these projectiles are designed not to kill.
If a gun is designed only to kill, why then, do these projectiles even exist?

You are again confusing the intent of the final user with the intent of the designer. These projectiles were designed for a specif purpose which is determined by the final user, not by the designer.

e.g.

Paintball guns were invented to NOT kill. The purpose of the weapon design is to mark the target with paint. If a paintball gun ammo is invented to kill, the main purpose of the weapon design will not change. Paintball guns are weapons designed to NOT kill. The purpose of the designer come first than the purpose of the final user.

By the way, I am not arguing that most firearms are only useful to kill. I am arguing that most firearms were (and are) specially designed to kill. That is the main purpose of the firearm design. As the final user intent have no influence over the designer intent, the designer intent also have no influence over the final user intent. Thus the final user is free to employ the firearm for whatever purpose he/she deem necessary.

[Lethn]

and here they are folks, arguing over made up scenarios and fake or poorly thought out statistics blatantly designed to help one side or the other.

[organofcorti]

and here they are folks, arguing over made up scenarios and fake or poorly thought out statistics blatantly designed to help one side or the other.

Way to piss off both myrkul and augustocroppo

[MoonShadow]

The debate should be about what makes the US such an intrinsically unsafe and fear ridden society, and how that could be alleviated.

http://cogitansiuvenis.blogspot.com/2012/07/is-america-really-more-violent-than.html

Taken as a whole, the United States is safer than Europe.  Although this article doesn't touch it, this is also true for murder unless you are someone who has first hand contact with criminal elements, as roughly 80% of murders in this country can still be connected to people with a prior criminal history; and that stat is actually much lower in Europe.  (I admit, I do not have access to those stats right now)  This is not to say this is acceptable, since many of those people are simply drug addicts or family members and not otherwise inclined toward criminal activity themselves, but it does put the murder rate into perspective.  Furthermore, as is true in Europe, some individual states (and particular cities) are safer than others.  Generally speaking, those US states with lower crime rates also have lower legal barriers for a citizen to obtain a firearms license.  This may not be cause & effect, admittedly, as states with higher crime rates might be more inclined to pass weapons restrictions as a result.  However, in every case wherein gun laws were relaxed for the law abiding, crime rates have decreased.  There is one city in Georgia that famously passed a law compelling all households to buy and keep a weapon, due to a very high local crime rate in 1982.  That law is still in effect, and that city has the lowest crime rate in Georgia today.

[Lethn]

and here they are folks, arguing over made up scenarios and fake or poorly thought out statistics blatantly designed to help one side or the other.

Way to piss off both myrkul and augustocroppo

When I see complete stupidity I can't help myself, it's just too easy

[organofcorti]

The debate should be about what makes the US such an intrinsically unsafe and fear ridden society, and how that could be alleviated.

http://cogitansiuvenis.blogspot.com/2012/07/is-america-really-more-violent-than.html

Taken as a whole, the United States is safer than Europe.  Although this article doesn't touch it, this is also true for murder unless you are someone who has first hand contact with criminal elements, as roughly 80% of murders in this country can still be connected to people with a prior criminal history; and that stat is actually much lower in Europe.  (I admit, I do not have access to those stats right now)  This is not to say this is acceptable, since many of those people are simply drug addicts or family members and not otherwise inclined toward criminal activity themselves, but it does put the murder rate into perspective.  Furthermore, as is true in Europe, some individual states (and particular cities) are safer than others.  Generally speaking, those US states with lower crime rates also have lower legal barriers for a citizen to obtain a firearms license.  This may not be cause & effect, admittedly, as states with higher crime rates might be more inclined to pass weapons restrictions as a result.  However, in every case wherein gun laws were relaxed for the law abiding, crime rates have decreased.  There is one city in Georgia that famously passed a law compelling all households to buy and keep a weapon, due to a very high local crime rate in 1982.  That law is still in effect, and that city has the lowest crime rate in Georgia today.

I live in Australia and feel safe. We have twice as many assaults but only one-fifth the murders that occur in the US. Our fights tend to be non-lethal.

Regardless, why is it that so many Americans feel unsafe? If you read the "gun control" threads, you'd think all US citizens were under constant threat of annihilation from their fellow citizens or their government. If the average law abiding US citizen is as safe as I am, why don't they think they are?

[iCEBREAKER]

Except guns are designed specifically for killing.

Well that settles it.  Guns are Evil objects, imbued with malevolent powers by their very nature.  Humans are powerless to prevent harm in their presence.

Even worse than drugs!

/enjoy your gun fetish

[organofcorti]

......
/enjoy your gun fetish

Hey, that's rude! I dont think anyone here actually has sex with guns, no matter how much they fancy them.

[iCEBREAKER]

In the gun debate who do you think is the most stupid?

That's an easy one.  FirstAssScent is obviously the most stupid in the gun debate.

The poor thing doesn't even realized that only individuals have rights.  It's very sad, so I ignore it.

[myrkul]

and here they are folks, arguing over made up scenarios and fake or poorly thought out statistics blatantly designed to help one side or the other.

Way to piss off both myrkul and augustocroppo

When I see complete stupidity I can't help myself, it's just too easy

I'm not pro guns. I'm anti-gun control. I'm just pointing out that these things are tools. Guns are rarely used to shoot someone. Much more often, they are used to prevent crime. This doesn't make the news, though, because it's much less exciting than when a gun is used to commit a crime. Often, a gun doesn't even need to be fired to be used in defense, and even more often, it doesn't even need to be drawn. Criminals avoid armed citizens. That's a fact. If guns are made illegal, by definition, only criminals will have guns.

The gun control argument isn't anti-guns, As has been pointed out, they'll need guns to take them from the average Joe. They just want the guns concentrated in the hands of government agents. I even heard one proponent say that "Government employees don't go on rampages with their guns." Which is patently false. Even discounting the "going postal" phenomenon, there is a specific group of government employees whose job it is to go on murderous rampages with their guns. At the moment, they are being primarily used overseas, but historically, once the citizenry is disarmed at home, this group is turned upon them:

[iCEBREAKER]

The debate should be about what makes the US such an intrinsically unsafe and fear ridden society, and how that could be alleviated.

http://cogitansiuvenis.blogspot.com/2012/07/is-america-really-more-violent-than.html

Taken as a whole, the United States is safer than Europe. 

I live in Australia and feel safe.

Regardless, why is it that so many Americans feel unsafe? If you read the "gun control" threads, you'd think all US citizens were under constant threat of annihilation from their fellow citizens or their government. If the average law abiding US citizen is as safe as I am, why don't they think they are?

The threat of annihilation or oppression needn't be "constant" (that's merely your strawman).

Life is intrinsically unsafe, and the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. 

In America, we are willing to pay that price because we are free and sovereign individuals.

In Europe and Australia, the slavish rabble have never risen up to secure their liberty and are unwilling to be eternally vigilant. 

Magna Carta was a good start but unfortunately there was no real follow through.  The French Revolution was admirable but they bungled it with Egalitarian Statism.

Enjoy your child-like feelings of safety, all warm and snuggly and resonsibility-free, protected by your benevolent owner, the Queen. 

Wasn't her Christmas speech lovely?   

I prefer Freedom and its concomitant responsibility, danger, and stress.

[SgtSpike]

The debate should be about what makes the US such an intrinsically unsafe and fear ridden society, and how that could be alleviated.

http://cogitansiuvenis.blogspot.com/2012/07/is-america-really-more-violent-than.html

Taken as a whole, the United States is safer than Europe.  Although this article doesn't touch it, this is also true for murder unless you are someone who has first hand contact with criminal elements, as roughly 80% of murders in this country can still be connected to people with a prior criminal history; and that stat is actually much lower in Europe.  (I admit, I do not have access to those stats right now)  This is not to say this is acceptable, since many of those people are simply drug addicts or family members and not otherwise inclined toward criminal activity themselves, but it does put the murder rate into perspective.  Furthermore, as is true in Europe, some individual states (and particular cities) are safer than others.  Generally speaking, those US states with lower crime rates also have lower legal barriers for a citizen to obtain a firearms license.  This may not be cause & effect, admittedly, as states with higher crime rates might be more inclined to pass weapons restrictions as a result.  However, in every case wherein gun laws were relaxed for the law abiding, crime rates have decreased.  There is one city in Georgia that famously passed a law compelling all households to buy and keep a weapon, due to a very high local crime rate in 1982.  That law is still in effect, and that city has the lowest crime rate in Georgia today.

I live in Australia and feel safe. We have twice as many assaults but only one-fifth the murders that occur in the US. Our fights tend to be non-lethal.

Regardless, why is it that so many Americans feel unsafe? If you read the "gun control" threads, you'd think all US citizens were under constant threat of annihilation from their fellow citizens or their government. If the average law abiding US citizen is as safe as I am, why don't they think they are?

Where do you get the idea that Americans feel unsafe?  I feel much safer than I would if I lived in a country where I was not allowed to own a gun.

[iCEBREAKER]

......
/enjoy your gun fetish

Hey, that's rude! I dont think anyone here actually has sex with guns, no matter how much they fancy them.

You are confusing the word "fetish" with the word "kink."  Don't feel too bad, it's a common mistake.  Even the smarty-pants liberals on DailyKos do it all the time.

But once you know the actual, completely non-sexual, definition of fetish (an power object imbued with mystical substances) you start to realize how foolish (and perverse) misuse of the term makes one appear to those with error-free vocabularies.

Now stay off those naughty websites before they further corrupt and degrade your powers of articulation.   

[Lethn]

.... I admit... Girls with weapons I actually find quite hot I can't help myself.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=352596&stc=1&d=1333127166

FAPFAPFAPFAPFPAPFAPFPAPP

[organofcorti]

The debate should be about what makes the US such an intrinsically unsafe and fear ridden society, and how that could be alleviated.

http://cogitansiuvenis.blogspot.com/2012/07/is-america-really-more-violent-than.html

Taken as a whole, the United States is safer than Europe.  Although this article doesn't touch it, this is also true for murder unless you are someone who has first hand contact with criminal elements, as roughly 80% of murders in this country can still be connected to people with a prior criminal history; and that stat is actually much lower in Europe.  (I admit, I do not have access to those stats right now)  This is not to say this is acceptable, since many of those people are simply drug addicts or family members and not otherwise inclined toward criminal activity themselves, but it does put the murder rate into perspective.  Furthermore, as is true in Europe, some individual states (and particular cities) are safer than others.  Generally speaking, those US states with lower crime rates also have lower legal barriers for a citizen to obtain a firearms license.  This may not be cause & effect, admittedly, as states with higher crime rates might be more inclined to pass weapons restrictions as a result.  However, in every case wherein gun laws were relaxed for the law abiding, crime rates have decreased.  There is one city in Georgia that famously passed a law compelling all households to buy and keep a weapon, due to a very high local crime rate in 1982.  That law is still in effect, and that city has the lowest crime rate in Georgia today.

I live in Australia and feel safe. We have twice as many assaults but only one-fifth the murders that occur in the US. Our fights tend to be non-lethal.

Regardless, why is it that so many Americans feel unsafe? If you read the "gun control" threads, you'd think all US citizens were under constant threat of annihilation from their fellow citizens or their government. If the average law abiding US citizen is as safe as I am, why don't they think they are?

Where do you get the idea that Americans feel unsafe?  I feel much safer than I would if I lived in a country where I was not allowed to own a gun.

Sure. But if you didn't own a gun, you wouldn't feel safe. That's what that comes to mind when I read many posts.

This is the point I suppose, and I'll be the first to admit it's not a very good one. I'm not attempting to prove anything, I just want more (sensible) explanations of how you think about your freedoms, guns and so forth.

[myrkul]

.... I admit... Girls with weapons I actually find quite hot I can't help myself.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=352596&stc=1&d=1333127166

FAPFAPFAPFAPFPAPFAPFPAPP

You should see the videos of them actually shooting the things.

Much jigglage.

[organofcorti]

.... I admit... Girls with weapons I actually find quite hot I can't help myself.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=352596&stc=1&d=1333127166

FAPFAPFAPFAPFPAPFAPFPAPP

You should see the videos of them actually shooting the things.

Much jigglage.

I spent many teenage hours watching "Bikini girls and machine guns" ,"Bikini girls and machine guns2" etc (apologies if I got the name wrong).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e6n1ODDth4