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Author Topic: Putin Probably aprproved murder  (Read 1549 times)
a7mos
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January 21, 2016, 12:45:31 PM
 #1

Russia's Foreign Ministry is dismissing the UK's inquiry into the death of Alexander Litvinenko as politically motivated. "We regret that a purely criminal case has been politicized and has darkened the general atmosphere of our bilateral relations," spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said.

British officials will summon the Russian ambassador to the Foreign Office to discuss an inquiry that found Russia was likely to have been complicit in the killing of Litvinenko on British soil in 2006, UK Home Secretary Theresa May said Thursday. May told Parliament that Interpol notices and European arrest warrants were in place so that the main suspects would be arrested if they travel abroad.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/01/21/europe/litvinenko-inquest-report/index.html
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January 22, 2016, 09:17:44 AM
 #2

Litvinenko's father: I didn't know that my son was a British agent; traitors should be shot

Published on Jan 21, 2016

More daily reality snacks at: http://russia-insider.com

This video is three years old. Walter Litvinenko described his claims as lies driven by hatred, saying he didn't know his son Alexander worked for British intelligence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAe3LKBG55c

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January 22, 2016, 09:22:30 AM
 #3

USA kills its own president (Kennedy) but it's still "the land of the free", Russia kills an opposant to the president and it's a dictatorship.

Double standards ^^

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January 22, 2016, 09:29:18 AM
 #4

I´ve seen no conclusive evidence that the Russian authorities ordered this guy killed and actually they had no reason to do it; the guy was a total nobody and didn´t bother them the slightest. Any meaningful danger or harm to the russians is purely mythical and was created after his death. Well, it´s not unusual of course, some people are simply much more valuable when they´re dead.

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January 22, 2016, 10:18:43 AM
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USA kills its own president (Kennedy) but it's still "the land of the free", Russia kills an opposant to the president and it's a dictatorship.

He was not killed for opposing the president. He was killed for passing on strategic Russian military secrets to the British agents. There is a big difference. Even if he was a British or American citizen, the governments there would have taken him out if he was doing the same to them. So don't blame everything on Russia and Putin.
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January 22, 2016, 10:26:21 AM
 #6

USA kills its own president (Kennedy) but it's still "the land of the free", Russia kills an opposant to the president and it's a dictatorship.

He was not killed for opposing the president. He was killed for passing on strategic Russian military secrets to the British agents. There is a big difference. Even if he was a British or American citizen, the governments there would have taken him out if he was doing the same to them. So don't blame everything on Russia and Putin.

He's presented as one. To justify the fact that Putin is just a dictator.
I'm not blaming anything on Russia and Putin, on the contrary I'm saying that Western nations would and have done the same if not worse.

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January 22, 2016, 10:26:29 AM
 #7

USA kills its own president (Kennedy) but it's still "the land of the free", Russia kills an opposant to the president and it's a dictatorship.

He was not killed for opposing the president. He was killed for passing on strategic Russian military secrets to the British agents. There is a big difference. Even if he was a British or American citizen, the governments there would have taken him out if he was doing the same to them. So don't blame everything on Russia and Putin.

Maybe. Anyway, the United States government has no qualms at all about executing people here and there extra judicially by robots and the same goes for their British colleagues so it´s total hypocrisy when they accuse others of the same.

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January 22, 2016, 10:43:55 AM
 #8

USA kills its own president (Kennedy) but it's still "the land of the free", Russia kills an opposant to the president and it's a dictatorship.

He was not killed for opposing the president. He was killed for passing on strategic Russian military secrets to the British agents. There is a big difference. Even if he was a British or American citizen, the governments there would have taken him out if he was doing the same to them. So don't blame everything on Russia and Putin.

Maybe. Anyway, the United States government has no qualms at all about executing people here and there extra judicially by robots and the same goes for their British colleagues so it´s total hypocrisy when they accuse others of the same.

Yup. Let the CIA faces torture accusations and the NSA spying on allied nations. Then they'll have the right to say anything about other countries ethic!

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January 22, 2016, 11:39:53 AM
 #9

It´s easy to have double standards.

For example there is much talk about Russia having violated "international laws" by re-uniting Crimea with Russia and supporting the self-determination of people in the Donbass. Why aren´t those alleged violations brought before the international court of justice? That´s how it goes when laws are broken, courts of justice deal with that. But of course those here who talk about international law don´t give a flyin eff about that in their endless wars on false pretenses. They don´t care about human rights and regimes killing their own people if the scumbags belong to their team. It´s total hypocrisy.

I guess those violations can´t be brought before a court because there isn´t any case. And besides there are tons of precedents that the defense could point to.

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January 22, 2016, 11:46:30 AM
 #10

It´s easy to have double standards.

For example there is much talk about Russia having violated "international laws" by re-uniting Crimea with Russia and supporting the self-determination of people in the Donbass. Why aren´t those alleged violations brought before the international court of justice? That´s how it goes when laws are broken, courts of justice deal with that. But of course those here who talk about international law don´t give a flyin eff about that in their endless wars on false pretenses. They don´t care about human rights and regimes killing their own people if the scumbags belong to their team. It´s total hypocrisy.

I guess those violations can´t be brought before a court because there isn´t any case. And besides there are tons of precedents that the defense could point to.

Yeah and even if they'd bring the case, how would they punish Russia? xD

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January 22, 2016, 12:03:11 PM
 #11

He was certainly murdered by the FSB and almost certainly by Lugovoi and/or Kovtun. The Russian position is that the inquest was politicized - in other words that the result was dictated before the investigation - a fait accompli.
There's no direct evidence that Putin ordered it but knowing how the Kremlin works he "probably" would have known about it, at least.
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January 22, 2016, 12:15:10 PM
 #12

The problem is Britain has no moral authority to stand on, so it's hard to see where this will lead to. If you're morally bankrupt you then rely on force; economic or military, to impose your will on others. Which this country doesn't have either. At least not against Russia.
The only defence this country has...is the counter-argument of loudly exclaiming "whataboutism" - a convenient excuse for those who want to dismiss critics of their own blatant hypocrisy.
So there's not much of a case.
I suppose the only talking point is how the intelligence agencies let a defector get whacked by some Russian spooks. Someone dropped the ball there if the Russians were allowed to get close to him.
Look at how the Russians treat Snowden, he'd find himself kidnapped and tortured given half the chance by a myriad of Western intelligence agencies. Tortured at best. They've obviously beefed up security knowing that.
So for whatever reason, we let the Russians kill their Snowden.
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January 22, 2016, 12:24:54 PM
 #13

So what if Putin gave the go ahead. There is a cost for betrayal, The death may have happened in England but there are plenty of other countries that have killed people outside of their own country, Even now Obama gives the final decision on drone attacks as he has admitted, This is the dark world of espionage.

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January 22, 2016, 01:54:34 PM
 #14

Oh the putin pr fraction is stronk in this one.

Putin is like bush just with better PR.

And most of you ppl are idiots to support him. Embarrassed

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m0gliE
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January 22, 2016, 02:39:54 PM
 #15

Oh the putin pr fraction is stronk in this one.

Putin is like bush just with better PR.

And most of you ppl are idiots to support him. Embarrassed

Not at all. Just saying that he's not worse than most of our Western world, exactly like you said he's just a Bush ^^

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January 22, 2016, 04:55:34 PM
 #16

The Craziest Conspiracy Theory of Them All
The British government’s report on the death of Alexander Litvinenko reads like a bad thriller


by Justin Raimondo, January 22, 2016

[links in article]

To those of us who grew up during the cold war years, it’s just like old times again: Russian plots to subvert the West and poison our precious bodily fluids are apparently everywhere. Speaking of poisoning plots: the latest Russkie conspiracy – and the most imaginative by far – was the alleged assassination by poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko , a former agent of the Russian intelligence services who fled to the West to become a professional anti-Russian propagandist and conspiracy theorist with a talent for the improbable. According to his fantastic worldview, the many terrorist attacks that have occurred in Russia have all been committed by … Vladimir Putin. Aside from championing the Chechen Islamo-terrorists who actually committed these crimes, Litvinenko’s stock-in-trade was an elaborate conspiracy theory in which he regularly accused Putin of blowing up Russian apartment buildings and murdering schoolchildren and then diverting attention from his own nefarious plots by blaming those lovable Chechens. Not very believable – unless one is predisposed to believe anything, so long as it casts discredit on those satanic Russians.

The conspiracy theory promulgated by the British government – and now memorialized in this official report – surpasses anything the deceased fantasist might have come up with. According to the Brits, Litvinenko was poisoned on British soil whilst imbibing a cup of tea spiked with a massive dose of radioactive polonium-210 – and, since Russia is a prime source of this rare substance, and since the Russians were supposedly out to get Litvinenko, the FSB – successor to the KGB – is named as the “probable” culprit.

Looking at the report, one has to conclude that they don’t make propaganda the way they used to: the certitude of, say, a J. Edgar Hoover or a Robert Welch has given way to the tepid ambiguity of Lord Robert Owen, the author of this report, whose verdict of “probably” merely underscores the paucity of what passes for evidence in this case.

To begin with, if the Russians wanted to off Litvinenko, why would they poison him with a substance that left a radioactive trail traceable from Germany to Heathrow airport – and, in the process, contaminating scores of hotel rooms, offices, planes, restaurants, and homes?  Why not just put a bullet through his head? It makes no sense.

But then conspiracy theories don’t have to make sense: they just have to take certain assumptions all the way to their implausible conclusions. If one starts with the premise that Putin and the Russians are a Satanic force capable of anything, and incompetent to boot, then it’s all perfectly “logical” – in the Bizarro World, at any rate.

The idea that Litvinenko was a dangerous opponent of the Russian government who had to be killed because he posed a credible threat to the existence of the regime is laughable: practically no one inside Russia knew anything about him, and as for his crackpot “truther” theories about how Putin was behind every terrorist attack ever carried out within Russia’s borders – to assert that they had any credence outside of the Western media echo chamber is a joke. So there was no real motive for the FSB to assassinate him, just as there is none for the FBI to go after David Ray Griffin.

The British report doesn’t bother presenting any real evidence: instead, we are given a detailed account of the lives of the alleged killers – Dmitri Kovtun and Andrei Lugovoy – that reads like a Daily Mail article. Included in this compendium of character assassination and gossip is the testimony of one of Kovtun’s ex-wives that he “wanted to be a porno star.” That this factoid would find its way into an official report of the United Kingdom is extraordinary – but not, I fear, unexpected. Salaciousness has its place in contemporary fiction, particularly the pulp-thriller genre, of which this report is a prime (if pedestrian) example.

The rest of the report is a complicated account of every move Kovtun, Lugovoy, and Litvinenko made in the days leading up to Litvinenko’s poisoning. It neither compromises nor exonerates the accused: presumably it was included to give the report the appearance of substance. The meat of the matter – the real “evidence” – is hidden behind a veil of secrecy. Lord Owen’s inquiry was for the most part conducted in secret closed  hearings, with testimony given by anonymous witnesses, and this is central to the “evidence” that is supposed to convict Kovtun, Lugovoy, and the Russian government. Lord Owen, explains it this way:

“Put very shortly, the closed evidence consists of evidence that is relevant to the Inquiry, but which has been assessed as being too sensitive to put into the public domain. The assessment that the material is sufficiently sensitive to warrant being treated as closed evidence in these proceedings has been made not by me, but by the Home Secretary. She has given effect to this decision by issuing a number of Restriction Notices, which is a procedure specified in section 19 of the Inquiries Act 2005. The Restriction Notices themselves, although not, of course, the sensitive documents appended to them, are public documents. They have been published on the Inquiry website and are also to be found at Appendix 7 to this Report.”

In other words, the “evidence” is not for us ordinary mortals to see. We just have to take His Lordship’s word for it that the Russian government embarked on an improbable assassination mission against a marginal figure that reads like something Ian Fleming might have written under a pseudonym.

Yes, you might say, but Litvinenko was poisoned. So who killed him?

As I pointed out here:

“Litvinenko was an employee of exiled Russian billionaire Boris Berezovsky – whose ill-gotten empire included a Russian syndicate of car-dealerships that had more than a nodding acquaintance with the Chechen Mafia – but was being slowly cut out of the money pipeline. Big-hearted Boris, who had initially put him on the payroll as anti-Putin propagandist, was evidently getting sick of him, and the out-of-work "dissident" was reportedly desperate for money. Litvinenko had several " business meetings " with Lugovoi in the months prior to his death, and, according to this report , he hatched a blackmail scheme targeting several well-known Russian tycoons and government officials.”

Indeed, Litvinenko, in the months before his death, had targeted several well-known members of the Russian Mafia with his blackmail scheme. That they would take umbrage at this is hardly shocking.

Furthermore, there are indications that Litvinenko was engaged in the smuggling of nuclear materials. That he wound up being contaminated by the goods he was peddling on the black market seems far more credible than the cock-and-bull story about a vast Russian plot originating in the Kremlin,. Apparently Lord Owen has never heard of Occam’s Razor.

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2016/01/21/craziest-conspiracy-theory/

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January 22, 2016, 07:06:16 PM
 #17

Putin is no different than any other state thug, He bristles when others identify him for what he is, an overachieving thug.
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January 22, 2016, 07:50:02 PM
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Using polonium-210 is indicative that the perp wanted to make sure that it was clear that the assassination was under the direction of the government of a nuclear power.  Polonium-210 is (as far as I can tell) only available to those engaged in maintaining nuclear weapon stockpiles as it is necessary to maintain 'pits' for nuclear weapons and is damn challenging to make (and fairly tightly regulated by international weapons treaty frameworks.)  I always figured that it was probably a Russian hit and that they wanted to make it widely known.  An alternate hypothesis is that the Russians were framed.  Both hypotheses seem reasonable to me.


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January 22, 2016, 08:02:01 PM
 #19

Britain had more motivation to kill Aleksandr Litvinenko than Russia, brother claims

Published time: 22 Jan, 2016 12:22
Edited time: 22 Jan, 2016 15:35

The brother of Aleksandr Litvinenko says the UK government had more motivation to kill him than Russia did, despite a British public inquiry which concluded that President Putin “probably” approved the assassination.
Maksim Litvinenko, Aleksandr's younger brother who lives in Rimini, Italy, responded to the Thursday report by saying it was “ridiculous” to blame the Kremlin for the murder of his brother, stating that he believes British security services had more of a motive to carry out the assassination.

"My father and I are sure that the Russian authorities are not involved. It's all a set-up to put pressure on the Russian government,” Litvinenko told the Mirror, adding that such reasoning is the only explanation as to why the inquiry was launched 10 years after his brother's death.

He called the British report a “smear” on Putin, and stressed that rumors claiming his brother was an enemy of the state are false. He added that Aleksandr had planned to return to Russia, and had even told friends about the move.


Litvinenko went on to downplay his brother’s alleged role as a spy, working for either Russia or MI6, adding that the Western media is to blame for such characterization.

"The Russians had no reason to want Alexander dead,” he said. “My brother was not a spy, he was more like a policeman...he was in the FSB [Russian Federal Security Service] but he worked against organized crime, murders, arms trafficking, stuff like that.”

Litvinenko was murdered in London in 2006, when assassins allegedly slipped radioactive polonium 21 into his cup of tea at a hotel. But his brother Maksim cast doubt on whether that was actually the poison used, saying he believes it could have been planted to frame the Russians.

"I believe he could have been killed by another poison, maybe thallium, which killed him slowly, and the polonium was planted afterwards,” he said. He added that requests to have his brother's body exhumed, in order to verify the presence of polonium, have been ignored by Britain.

"Now after 10 years any trace [of polonium] would have disappeared anyway, so we will never know,” he said, adding that British authorities had not collaborated with Russian investigators on the case.

“This case became a big PR campaign against the Russian government and its president in particular,” Maksim Litvinenko told RT in an interview in 2014. “The West is pressuring Russia very hard now. The MH-17 crash, Crimea, the war in Ukraine, sanctions against Moscow and now this inquiry – I'm not buying that this is a coincidence.”

When asked why Aleksandr Litvinenko's widow Marina continues to maintain that the Kremlin is responsible for the murder, he said: “She lives in London, to survive she has to play the game and take this point of view. She can't say anything else."


Back in 2012, Litvinenko’s father backtracked on his claims that Vladimir Putin was responsible for his son's death, and asked the Russian president for forgiveness. Walter Litvinenko told RT that his anger had made him say what the Western media wanted to hear.


Meanwhile, the Russian Foreign Ministry has also dismissed the British report, blaming London for politicizing the “purely criminal” case of Litvinenko's death.

Russia’s UK ambassador, Alexander Yakovenko, told RT that the inquiry's conclusion was “not justified,” and that the investigation was “very politicized” and “biased.”

“In order to prove something, you have to present the facts. As soon as the British side proves…their conclusions, we will be ready to consider [them],” the ambassador said, adding that the Russian side “did not even have a chance to study the documents [of the investigation].”

https://www.rt.com/news/329804-litvinenko-brother-britain-murder/

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January 22, 2016, 10:29:00 PM
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Polonium-210 is (as far as I can tell) only available to those engaged in maintaining nuclear weapon stockpiles
That's false, polonium is widely used for the civil applications. Just for example, millions of polonium-based antistatic brushes are sold every day.



as it is necessary to maintain 'pits' for nuclear weapons
Well, that is false as well. Though the polonium-based neutron sources are used in laboratories, polonium isn't used in the modern nuclear weapons due to short period of half-life. There is a plenty of more suitable methods of initiation.

and is damn challenging to make
Polonium is produced in the nuclear reactors, via irradiation of bismuth-209 with thermal neutrons. This process is very simple and production cost is quite low, price for 500 mCi sample of polonium is only about $36 in the USA. By the way, 500 mCi is more than enough to get rid of somebody.

and fairly tightly regulated by international weapons treaty frameworks
There are no specific international treaties, which would regulate production of polonium. In fact, there are even no utilization procedures for used polonium sources, it is allowed to dispose of them with regular household rubbish.

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