Bitcoin core value? - miners will switch to Bitcoin Classic

[jonald_fyookball]

I would rather use PerfectMoney.com

Ok, then use perfectmoney.  Nobody is stopping you.

buh-bye.

[mayax]

Bitcoin miners will go with Bitcoin Classic. They just don't want to spread panic for now... That's all.

[Lauda]

Please read the article.

I have. The ignorance here is high especially in the one who wants to do a hard fork in 1 month.

The miners said so. It is NOT my conclusion.

The article said so; title is still somewhat misleading.

Maybe miners will switch to Bitcoin Classic, but it won't happen in next 1 or 2 months. Hard fork isn't as easy as you think, it need concensus & other things.
Also, if it happenned, we still have our coins & it still has value because majority users (or miners) already use Bitcoin Classic.

I think Bitcoin Classic is just temporary way to solve block chain size, if we moved to Bitcoin Classic, i'm sure we'll see another hard fork to increase block size in next 10 years.

The miners can pull off the hard fork pretty quickly if they want to abandon most merchants, services and users. Classic is not a solution but rather a power grab. Classic does not have a long term plan nor good developers. Even if it does succeed, this discussion will repeat itself in 2017.

Bitcoin miners will go with Bitcoin Classic. They just don't want to spread panic for now... That's all.

They won't if they have any common sense.

[bargainbin]

...
The miners can pull off the hard fork pretty quickly if they want to abandon most merchants, services and users. ...

Can you back this up with a list of merchants/exchanges who will not go with Classic? (links plz)

[johnyj]

This paranoid atmosphere is healthy 

[Lauda]

Can you back this up with a list of merchants/exchanges who will not go with Classic? (links plz)

Do you have a list of every merchant (there are thousands) that will update to Classic in a 30 day time frame? You don't. I can't create that list either. Until someone states that they are willing to switch, it is reasonable to assume that they won't (or won't in time).

[BldSwtTrs]

Can you back this up with a list of merchants/exchanges who will not go with Classic? (links plz)

Do you have a list of every merchant (there are thousands) that will update to Classic in a 30 day time frame? You don't. I can't create that list either. Until someone states that they are willing to switch, it is reasonable to assume that they won't (or won't in time).

Adapt or perish. That's the way life works. Ask Charles Darwin.

[bargainbin]

Can you back this up with a list of merchants/exchanges who will not go with Classic? (links plz)

Do you have a list of every merchant (there are thousands) that will update to Classic in a 30 day time frame? You don't. I can't create that list either. Until someone states that they are willing to switch, it is reasonable to assume that they won't (or won't in time).

You are the one making an assertion, the onus is on you to back it with some evidence.
Had I said "all merchants and users support Classic," asking me for a list would have been justified.
I'll assume you have no evidence to back your claim, and are just FUDding.

People make themselves heard only if and when they care about an issue. When they don't care what happens, they don't say anything -- which is what's happening now. Miners care -- they voiced their opinion. Merchants/exchanges don't care, so no need to compile lists "of every merchant."
Had their multi-million-dollar businesses been threatened by the potentiality of a fork, I'm certain they would have made their concerns known.

[Lauda]

Adapt or perish. That's the way life works. Ask Charles Darwin.

Classic is not the next step, it is a power grab.

You are the one making an assertion, the onus is on you to back it with some evidence.

Evidence of absence. You don't have a list that proves the overwhelming support for Classic, thus it does not exist.

Miners care -- they voiced their opinion. Merchants/exchanges don't care, so no need to compile lists "of every merchant."

Similarly to when some said they'd back XT until they didn't?

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

This paranoid atmosphere is healthy 

You talking about me??

[bargainbin]

Adapt or perish. That's the way life works. Ask Charles Darwin.

Classic is not the next step, it is a power grab.

You are the one making an assertion, the onus is on you to back it with some evidence.

Evidence of absence. You don't have a list that proves the overwhelming support for Classic, thus it does not exist.

I never claimed overwhelming support for Classic by businesses. I merely pointed out that they do not care.
here, I'll post it again:

People make themselves heard only if and when they care about an issue. When they don't care what happens, they don't say anything -- which is what's happening now. Miners care -- they voiced their opinion. Merchants/exchanges don't care, so no need to compile lists "of every merchant."
Had their multi-million-dollar businesses been threatened by the potentiality of a fork, I'm certain they would have made their concerns known.

Miners care -- they voiced their opinion. Merchants/exchanges don't care, so no need to compile lists "of every merchant."

Similarly to when some said they'd back XT until they didn't?

Are you suggesting that they may change their minds? Different topic, but hey, possible :- Especially with folks like Luke Jr. threatening them with fresh PoW.
 

[BldSwtTrs]

Adapt or perish. That's the way life works. Ask Charles Darwin.

Classic is not the next step, it is a power grab.

The problem is not that some people are in power, the probems begin when there is no possibility to keep in check those in power. Core folks wants their power to be uncontested, calling a fork attempt irresponsible, whereas Classic folks should always welcome challenges to their implementation.

Competition in power is healthy. It makes no sense to say "we should let the power in the hands of those who currently have it because other people want the power and wanting the power is bad".

[Lauda]

I never claimed overwhelming support for Classic by businesses. I merely pointed out that they do not care.

Which means that my point still stands. One month is a small update window and a it is possible that a good number of businesses stay on the wrong chain for some time.

Are you suggesting that they may change their minds? Different topic, but hey, possible :- Especially with folks like Luke Jr. threatening them with fresh PoW.

Until they are all running Classic, it is all just talk. They could change their mind anytime. Luke-Jr didn't threaten anyone, he just made a proposal. Anyone can make one.

The problem is not that some people are in power, the probems begin when there is no possibility to keep in check those in power. Core folks wants their power to be uncontested, calling a fork attempt irresponsible, whereas Classic folks should always welcome challenge to their implementation.

Some people believe that Classic will be more democratic because of 'consider.it'. Nice joke. Classic doesn't even have a proper development team, that is very irresponsible (singular example).

[BldSwtTrs]

I never claimed overwhelming support for Classic by businesses. I merely pointed out that they do not care.

Which means that my point still stands. One month is a small update window and a it is possible that a good number of businesses stay on the wrong chain for some time.

Are you suggesting that they may change their minds? Different topic, but hey, possible :- Especially with folks like Luke Jr. threatening them with fresh PoW.

Until they are all running Classic, it is all just talk. They could change their mind anytime. Luke-Jr didn't threaten anyone, he just made a proposal. Anyone can make one.

The problem is not that some people are in power, the probems begin when there is no possibility to keep in check those in power. Core folks wants their power to be uncontested, calling a fork attempt irresponsible, whereas Classic folks should always welcome challenge to their implementation.

Some people believe that Classic will be more democratic because of 'consider.it'. Nice joke. Classic doesn't even have a proper development team, that is very irresponsible (singular example).

We shouldn't care whether Classic is democratic or not, what is important is the possibility of hard forking away from Classic if they end up abusing their power.

[bargainbin]

I never claimed overwhelming support for Classic by businesses. I merely pointed out that they do not care.

Which means that my point still stands. One month is a small update window and a it is possible that a good number of businesses stay on the wrong chain for some time.

Which point is that? That people will be left stranded because it takes a month to download what amounts to a software update?
Either your connection is horribly slow, or I'm forced to assume you're just FUDding.

Are you suggesting that they may change their minds? Different topic, but hey, possible :- Especially with folks like Luke Jr. threatening them with fresh PoW.

Until they are all running Classic, it is all just talk. They could change their mind anytime. Luke-Jr didn't threaten anyone, he just made a proposal. Anyone can make one.

Of course it's just talk, that's what we're doing. If you feel that they're being disingenuous, why call them ignorant? Just call them liars.

[steeev]

the r/btc subreddit bangs on and on like this all day

only about 10k subs on there, compared to about 170k on r/Bitcoin though...

looks like they're doing some overtime here

[maokoto]

Actual BTC are not in risk of dissappearing as they can fit in 2 MB blocks. Users are in a comfortable place IMO as they can choose whatever they like once it is developed, without risking their coins beforehand.

[jonald_fyookball]

Can you back this up with a list of merchants/exchanges who will not go with Classic? (links plz)

Do you have a list of every merchant (there are thousands) that will update to Classic in a 30 day time frame? You don't. I can't create that list either. Until someone states that they are willing to switch, it is reasonable to assume that they won't (or won't in time).

I take the opposite opinion of you.

I think it is reasonable to assume that most merchants who are running a full node
will switch in time, (regardless of whether or not they state they are willing to switch.)

They will follow the miners and see that 2MB is not only reasonable, it is long overdue.

Anyway, I really question what percentage of merchants are really running their own full nodes.

[Dobmaster]

Actual BTC are not in risk of dissappearing as they can fit in 2 MB blocks. Users are in a comfortable place IMO as they can choose whatever they like once it is developed, without risking their coins beforehand.

If the bitcoin classic come out in march before Core, and most people use that one. bitcoin will survive on that chain. For the people with their money in their own wallet, they will not lose money.

[Lauda]

Which point is that? That people will be left stranded because it takes a month to download what amounts to a software update? Either your connection is horribly slow, or I'm forced to assume you're just FUDding.

You're joking right? If you think that everyone is in the position to upgrade or is aware of the current situation then we have no reasons to talk about. Here's a small example and I'll leave it at that:

I'm the owner of Lauda Dice, a very good and popular Dice site. Lauda is currently sick and has no idea what's going on in the Bitcoin ecosystem. Hard fork happens before Lauda recovers and leaves his service website broken.

Even deploying soft forks takes time, with hard forks it is much worse.

They will follow the miners and see that 2MB is not only reasonable, it is long overdue.

Not only is it not overdue, it is very irrational.

looks like they're doing some overtime here

People with the delusion of knowledge never seem to stop.
It was just a simple example. Not willing to asses the situation objectively means that you're either irrational or a Classic shill.