Absolutely nothing backs Fiat paper its completely worthless

[TheCloser]

FIAT Money is debt/credit, and debt/credit is backed by deposits. I can't get credit out of hot air.

you can..

you do know that credit is a credit agreement.. the primary way banks "create money"..

you do realise that its not money movement from one account to another to give you credit.. the banks magic the money out of nowhere and you sign a credit card contract to hand them funds + a fee..

same goes for mortgages. the funds dont come from other peoples accounts.

when you realise that its created by nothing more then laws allowing them to create it under the use of credit agreements .. you will see that fiat is only backed by laws..

It's not created by nothing. It's created against a deposit (House, machines, salary etc.) Money is not a thing. Money is debt/credit.

Absolutely correct. Fiat is backed by faith but ultimately exists because of debt. Without debt there would be no need for the amount of currency in existence.

[CuntChocula]

So, let me see if I have understood this correctly.

1. On the one side we have fiat currency, backed up by your government, maybe backed up by other countries, possibly the IMF too. Used by 100% of the population of your country and probably many that aren't.

2. On the other side we have Bitcoin, backed up by nobody and used by less than 1/1000th of the population of any country.

3. Mainly used by criminals and ohh,

4. most people seem to only care what it's worth against the dollar,

5. which I'm sure means that most users seem to only care about making money in a fiat currency?

And yet you say fiat paper is worthless?

1. if you wash away your love of the american dollar.. and think about the third world countries.. your mindset will shift and not be so biased and obvious that your a Yank

2. bitcoin has more population then several countries/currencies combined.. again stop comparing to america.. and think about the world and different fiats.

3. less bitcoin % is used illegally compared to your loving dollar.. just walk the streets of detroit or other street hustling towns of drugs and prostitution and you will finally wake up that your lovely dollar is not so perfect

4. again wrong.. i get paid in bitcoin and i buy things in bitcoin. my fiat bank balance has not been touched in months.. maybe 1 transaction in 2 years was from my fiat bank.. the rest was in bitcoin.. and also im not american so i dont even care about the dollar valuation.. that dollar valuation are for those that love the dollar.. (only 400m out of 7billion.. so not that many)

5. go talk to anyone that lives in china who uses yuan, how important the dollar is to them. they wont care about the dollar.

i think that you have not yet learned bitcoins usefulness, i dont think you realise that you can get a job anywhere in the world and not have to be paid in dollars..
so try to put your love for the dollar aside. and spend 5 minutes pretending you are from bangledesh, china, barbados.. anywhere thats not america.. and i promise you, your mind will be more enlightened to whats available outside of your american cesspit

1. USD is great. Why would he "wash away [his] love" for it? How is that in his enlightened self-interest?

2. you mean like Sealand, Liberlandand, and that new country, the one under a highway bridge?

3. Patently false. Bitcoin, while used by .0001% of the world's population, already Bitcoin accounts for over 40% of criminal-to-criminal online payments

4. You know who else never touches his bank account? A kid living in mom's basement, that's who.

5. BTC price is so high because Chinese criminals are using it to move money out of the country. Duh!

[franky1]

FIAT Money is debt/credit, and debt/credit is backed by deposits. I can't get credit out of hot air.

you can..

you do know that credit is a credit agreement.. the primary way banks "create money"..

you do realise that its not money movement from one account to another to give you credit.. the banks magic the money out of nowhere and you sign a credit card contract to hand them funds + a fee..

same goes for mortgages. the funds dont come from other peoples accounts.

when you realise that its created by nothing more then laws allowing them to create it under the use of credit agreements .. you will see that fiat is only backed by laws..

It's not created by nothing. It's created against a deposit (House, machines, salary etc.) Money is not a thing. Money is debt/credit.

its not created against a deposit.. seriously you are missing out lesson one of fiat money creation..
here.. straight from the bank of england website
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q1prereleasemoneycreation.pdf

a bank deposits NEW money into a persons account.. it doesnt shift money from someone elses account .. it creates a new balance.. out of no where, based on credit agreements.

being brutally honest.. miners do the same thing. a new 25btc is created on the agreement of a block creation. just like banks create money on a credit agreement.
but banks agreement is not controlled supply.. they can create any amount they like by accepting more and more agreements. with no time or value limit.. which is what ultimately caused the 2008 financial crises because they made bad agreements (sub-prime loans) literally creating money without concern or control or rules to mathematically create money at a stable and predictable amount.

[Zarathustra]

FIAT Money is debt/credit, and debt/credit is backed by deposits. I can't get credit out of hot air.

you can..

you do know that credit is a credit agreement.. the primary way banks "create money"..

you do realise that its not money movement from one account to another to give you credit.. the banks magic the money out of nowhere and you sign a credit card contract to hand them funds + a fee..

same goes for mortgages. the funds dont come from other peoples accounts.

when you realise that its created by nothing more then laws allowing them to create it under the use of credit agreements .. you will see that fiat is only backed by laws..

It's not created by nothing. It's created against a deposit (House, machines, salary etc.) Money is not a thing. Money is debt/credit.

its not created against a deposit.. seriously you are missing out lesson one of fiat money creation..
here.. straight from the bank of england website
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2014/qb14q1prereleasemoneycreation.pdf

a bank deposits NEW money into a persons account.. it doesnt shift money from someone elses account .. it creates a new balance.. out of no where, based on credit agreements.

"Out of no where" is not true. Out of your deposit is true. If you have no deposit/pledge (house, machine, salary etc.) you won't get a credit agreement.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Bitcoin, while used by .0001% of the world's population, already Bitcoin accounts for over 40% of criminal-to-criminal online payments

Criminal-to-criminal online payments

• Bitcoin accounts for over 40%
• PayPal accounts for 25%

Someone should shut that company down.

[CuntChocula]

Bitcoin, while used by .0001% of the world's population, already Bitcoin accounts for over 40% of criminal-to-criminal online payments

Criminal-to-criminal online payments

• Bitcoin accounts for over 40%
• PayPal accounts for 25%

Someone should shut that company down.

For the math-impaired: PayPal criminal/noncriminal tx ratio is roughly 1:1000; Bitcoin? roughly 1:1

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Bitcoin, while used by .0001% of the world's population, already Bitcoin accounts for over 40% of criminal-to-criminal online payments

Criminal-to-criminal online payments

• Bitcoin accounts for over 40%
• PayPal accounts for 25%

Someone should shut that company down.

For the math-impaired: PayPal criminal/noncriminal tx ratio is roughly 1:1000; Bitcoin? roughly 1:1

True. I'm doing criminal stuff as we speak. Makes me feel like a big man.

[CuntChocula]

...
but banks agreement is not controlled supply.. they can create any amount they like by accepting more and more agreements. with no time or value limit.. which is what ultimately caused the 2008 financial crises because they made bad agreements (sub-prime loans) literally creating money without concern or control or rules to mathematically create money at a stable and predictable amount.

Do you understand that it's not in the banksters' enlightened self-interest to debase the money they print? No more than it is for the miners to hardfork max_coins to 42 million?

@BlindMayorBitcorn: Not against criminality, only against obvious, boring, inept criminality. Like reanimating all the shit from late 1800s/early 1900s, the stuff that brought about regulation.

[Bitcoinpro]

Bitcoin, while used by .0001% of the world's population, already Bitcoin accounts for over 40% of criminal-to-criminal online payments

Criminal-to-criminal online payments

• Bitcoin accounts for over 40%
• PayPal accounts for 25%

Someone should shut that company down.

For the math-impaired: PayPal criminal/noncriminal tx ratio is roughly 1:1000; Bitcoin? roughly 1:1

True. I'm doing criminal stuff as we speak. Makes me feel like a big man.

thread attracted the loud mouthed shills again shouting the big C word

take the big C and shove it up ur big C

[franky1]

1. USD is great. Why would he "wash away [his] love" for it? How is that in his enlightened self-interest?

2. you mean like Sealand, Liberlandand, and that new country, the one under a highway bridge?

3. Patently false. Bitcoin, while used by .0001% of the world's population, already Bitcoin accounts for over 40% of criminal-to-criminal online payments

4. You know who else never touches his bank account? A kid living in mom's basement, that's who.

5. BTC price is so high because Chinese criminals are using it to move money out of the country. Duh!

1. your just a yank trolling now. too indeep in their love for the dollar to realise that pounds, yuan rubles, euro's exist. to yanks.. only the dollar is king.. (very narrow minded and not enlightened at all)

2. no, more like Maldives, Liberia, Central African Republic.. to name just 3 of 20.. so dont downplay things by talking about them shitty sealand crap

3.  fiat based activity accounts for more actually..
oh and using the words from that econo link:
"could become the go-to currency for digital criminals in the region" could become.. doesnt constitute bitcoin already is
oh and "it is apparent that bitcoin may gradually be taking on that role." may gradually... does not constitute bitcoin already is

so try to put so called statements into the context of the actual words used..

do you know that they only mentioned paypal, they didnt mention all other types .
so say this:
offline:
40% credit card fraud -fiat offline
30% wire transfer fraud -fiat offline
30% pickpocketing - fiat offline

online:
40% bitcoin fraud -btc online
25% paypal fraud -fiat online
10% sagepay fraud -fiat online
20% streamline fraud -fiat online
5% stripe -fiat online
by just mentioning paypal vs bitcoin it would be 25% vs 40% (baited results to support biased narrative)

but if mentioning fiat vs bitcoin for online transactions it would be 60% fiat and 40% bitcoin..
but if mentioning all fraud online and offline.. it would be 80% fiat 20% bitcoin.

so context matters.. and narrowminds dont think about context or scope of things spoonfed to them

4. i dont live with my parents.. they died . i have my own place and pay my own rent. simply because i have a job that for one is not paid in dollars.. for two is paid in bitcoin.

5. your mindset is stuck in the 2012 propaganda of silkroad vs 5,000 legitimate retailers... things are not like that.. there are over 120,000 legit retailers and no silk road.. so i might aswell be comparing fiat to the wild west days of saloons, prostitutes and highwaymen(robbers).. if we both want to only think of the past

[CuntChocula]

1. USD is great. Why would he "wash away [his] love" for it? How is that in his enlightened self-interest?

2. you mean like Sealand, Liberlandand, and that new country, the one under a highway bridge?

3. Patently false. Bitcoin, while used by .0001% of the world's population, already Bitcoin accounts for over 40% of criminal-to-criminal online payments

4. You know who else never touches his bank account? A kid living in mom's basement, that's who.

5. BTC price is so high because Chinese criminals are using it to move money out of the country. Duh!

1. your just a yank trolling now. too indeep in their love for the dollar to realise that pounds, yuan rubles, euro's exist. to yanks.. only the dollar is king.. (very narrow minded and not enlightened at all)

2. no, more like Maldives, Liberia, Central African Republic.. to name just 3 of 20.. so dont downplay things by talking about them shitty sealand crap

3. western union and paypal accounts for more actually.. which are fiat based..
oh and "could become the go-to currency for digital criminals in the region" could become.. doesnt constitute already bitcoin is
oh and "it is apparent that bitcoin may gradually be taking on that role." apparent that it may... does not constitute bitcoin already is

so try to put so called statements into the context of the actual words used..

do you know that they only mentioned paypal, they didnt mention all other types .
so say this:
offline:
40% credit card fraud -fiat offline
30% wire transfer fraud -fiat offline
30% pickpocketing - fiat offline

online:
40% bitcoin fraud -btc online
25% paypal fraud -fiat online
10% sagepay fraud -fiat online
20% streamline fraud -fiat online
5% stripe -fiat online
by just mentioning paypal vs bitcoin it would be 25% vs 40% (baited results to support biased narrative)
but if mentioning fiat vs bitcoin for online transactions it would be 60% fiat and 40% bitcoin..

but if mentioning all fraud online and offline.. it would be 80% fiat 20% bitcoin.

so context matters.. and narrowminds dont think about context or scope of things spoonfed to them

4. i dont live with my parents.. they died . i have my own place and pay my own rent. simply because i have a job that for one is not paid in dollars.. for two is paid in bitcoin.

5. your mindset is stuck in the 2012 propaganda of silkroad vs 10,000 legitimate retailers... things are not like that.. there are over 120,000 legit retailers and no silk road.. so i might aswell be comparing fiat to the wild west days of saloons, prostitutes and highwaymen(robbers).. if we both want to only think of the past

1. NO U! USD is great. Why would he "wash away [his] love" for it? How is that in his enlightened self-interest?

2. Source? Easter Bunny is the greatest way to send money anywhere in the world. Trust me

3. You don't know how to parse human speech. Bitcoin *already* accounts for 40% pf all criminal-to-criminal transactions.

4. Then you're a fucking tax cheat, criminal. Can't pay taxes in BTC. Pay your taxes.

5.  "10,000 legitimate retailers." Only if you count the ones who put BitPay's payment option & never got paid in BTC. Which is roughly 99.9% of them.

P.S.  re. "SR propaganda": SR was, possibly, the most legitimate thing in Bitcoin ever -- definitely the most legitimate DNM. Now that scene has turned to shit and exit scam. I'm talking about everything about Bitcoin being across-the-board scam. PayPal made trading on the internet relatively frictionless. Bitcoin made scamming on the internet relatively safe. And little else

[Bitcoinpro]

@mirana12345
>Bitcoin can transact value from one point to another better than any fiat ever created.
No. Bitcoin can not "transact value from one point to another."  It can send digital strings, which are anything but value.

digital strings...

so wire transfers are different how??
wire transfers are digital strings too.. so i guess fiat is "anything but value"

Do you like to read? Here:

...
A binary string can also be used to store and transmit value.
Banks do it all the time, that's how fiat money moves around. Surprised?

I can also send my PIN code to my GF as an ASCII string, and she can take money out of a cash machine.
This doesn't mean that ASCII strings send value -- merely send information. Parties on both ends need to agree on what that info means.

Do you understand better now?

never go full retard dude

u went full retard

[QuestionAuthority]

@mirana12345
>Bitcoin can transact value from one point to another better than any fiat ever created.
No. Bitcoin can not "transact value from one point to another."  It can send digital strings, which are anything but value.

digital strings...

so wire transfers are different how??
wire transfers are digital strings too.. so i guess fiat is "anything but value"

Do you like to read? Here:

...
A binary string can also be used to store and transmit value.
Banks do it all the time, that's how fiat money moves around. Surprised?

I can also send my PIN code to my GF as an ASCII string, and she can take money out of a cash machine.
This doesn't mean that ASCII strings send value -- merely send information. Parties on both ends need to agree on what that info means.

Do you understand better now?

never go full retard dude

u went full retard

You were around in early 2011. Why did you sit for so long inactive and then suddenly decide to become active again? You must be someone's alt. Who are you? Are you Bruno?

[bob123]

You are right.. but its the buying power fiat has.

[DaveWave]

1. if you wash away your love of the american dollar.. and think about the third world countries.. your mindset will shift and not be so biased and obvious that your a Yank

British old chap. Can't be bothered to discuss with someone who makes assumptions rather than use logic. Going down the pub for a late Sunday lunch. Cheerio.

[Undermood]

It is only backed by the gov's promise. If the gov run in to insolvency, the fiat will be worthless.

[justspare]

We might be waiting a very very long time before this happens. But if it does, you are completely correct.

[DimensionZ]

Fiat is backed by the banks the governments and the armies. It's not completely worthless on the contrary Bitcoin is depended on the Internet. What if there is a 3rd World War and all the Internet is gone. What will you trade then to eat food?

[ATguy]

Fiat is backed by the banks the governments and the armies. It's not completely worthless on the contrary Bitcoin is depended on the Internet. What if there is a 3rd World War and all the Internet is gone. What will you trade then to eat food?

But in such situation it is safe to assume governments and the armies will not be in control either. So why should you accept some piece of paper (cotton) and give it higher value than the piece of paper (cotton) really have (basically close to 0)

[n2004al]

when Bitcoin takes over anyone left holding fiat will get done like a dogs dinner

Cannot agree and it is not correct. Cannot agree because cannot be worthless the most important thing for what work almost all the people of the world. Almost everyone work to have that worthless subject and with which can be made everything one person want. That worthless thing open most of all the existing doors of this world. Make almost everyone to do and to have the life he/she want. Make happy almost everyone who receive it and is the only tool who can be used to have almost everything. And sometimes make several people to degenerate or even to harm themselves. That's for its being "completely worthless" according to OP.

As for being backed it is again a wrong deduction that which can be read at the title of the thread. Every currency (money) in existence legally and emit from a Central Bank or a similar Authority within a given country is backet by the owner of that currency which is the State of that Country. They (through the Authorities created exactly for this aim) take care about everything has to do with that given currency. If not do so the economy of that country will be in chaos within days or weeks.