Those fuckers! Fiscal Cliff Rolled Back!

[doobadoo]

Can't US.gov just declare bankruptcy already, shut down and liquidate to pay back everyone already?

You dont understand the monetary system.  It is not possible to pay everyone back.  ALL of our money, 100% of it, every single dollar in existence, was loaned to us, with interest.  If we paid back every dollar ever loaned to us, how would we pay back the interest?

Nah bro, YOU don't understand the monetary system. There is no interest owed on the treasuries that are held by the Federal Reserve.  You are repeating disinformation of Edward G Griffin who spins his silly little misinformations, probably because he doesn't think you are smart enough to see what is wrong with The Fed as is.  So he couches it in dumbed down terms and just makes stuff up, like "all the money is loan into existence."  It isn't.  Get your facts straight.

People who actually understand the system, like me, cringe every time some one repeats this falsehood.  Stop making me cringe.  The national debt can totally be paid off.

[BCB]

Then the CFR will finally have a world currency with which they can dictate world policy.

Bitcoin?

Isn't that our end game? 

[doobadoo]

Can't US.gov just declare bankruptcy already, shut down and liquidate to pay back everyone already?

You dont understand the monetary system.  It is not possible to pay everyone back.  ALL of our money, 100% of it, every single dollar in existence, was loaned to us, with interest.  If we paid back every dollar ever loaned to us, how would we pay back the interest?

Yep, this highlights the major flaw in our monetary system.  The problem that  [P < P + I] (P = Principle I = Interest) - this is the math of a debt based monetary system.

Except for the fact that I = 0 bro.  I say again NO INTEREST IS OWED ON THE SYSTEM OPEN MARKET PORTFOLIO AT THE FED.  This whole argument of "unpayable debt" is some kind of fabrication.   Maybe by good meaning people who wanted to make The Fed look bad.  Maybe they thought the explanations for how they selfishly serve the bankers was too complex, before the whole bailout mania helped expose it.   Or maybe they decided to arm opponents with bogus information so you could be easily dis-proven.  

There is nothing impossible about paying off the national debt if the public will was there.  As to why we as a society would rationally turn over that much wealth to creditors is a totally different issue.

[Dalkore]

Can't US.gov just declare bankruptcy already, shut down and liquidate to pay back everyone already?

You dont understand the monetary system.  It is not possible to pay everyone back.  ALL of our money, 100% of it, every single dollar in existence, was loaned to us, with interest.  If we paid back every dollar ever loaned to us, how would we pay back the interest?

Yep, this highlights the major flaw in our monetary system.  The problem that  [P < P + I] (P = Principle I = Interest) - this is the math of a debt based monetary system.

Except for the fact that I = 0 bro.  I say again NO INTEREST IS OWED ON THE SYSTEM OPEN MARKET PORTFOLIO AT THE FED.  This whole argument of "unpayable debt" is some kind of fabrication.   Maybe by good meaning people who wanted to make The Fed look bad.  Maybe they thought the explanations for how they selfishly serve the bankers was too complex, before the whole bailout mania helped expose it.   Or maybe they decided to arm opponents with bogus information so you could be easily dis-proven.  

There is nothing impossible about paying off the national debt if the public will was there.  As to why we as a society would rationally turn over that much wealth to creditors is a totally different issue.

First off, we owe trillions in Treasuries to other foreign governments and entities. 

I don't think you understand where most debt/credit creation happens.   It is by the commercial banks.  They lend it into existence and that has interest attached too it and then at the same time carry the debt as an asset on their balance-sheet (or sell it off).  They do this in a fractional manner with almost no reserves.  This is why there is more P +I at all times in the system. 

What central banks do mostly is cover the spending of the government by selling and buying Treasury bonds and also sell Treasuries (high power money) to commercial banks so they can keep fueling credit/debt into the system.

You may need to do more research on this or actually explain how the system works and where the flaws are at.   If you come at me silly-style like that again, I am going to take you to task.  I read source documents and they are old, do try and treat me like some idiot. 

[bbit]

I say we needed this let's get it over with shall we! 

[Rob E]

 gerald celente or max keizer.

[laughingbear]

Can't US.gov just declare bankruptcy already, shut down and liquidate to pay back everyone already?

You dont understand the monetary system.  It is not possible to pay everyone back.  ALL of our money, 100% of it, every single dollar in existence, was loaned to us, with interest.  If we paid back every dollar ever loaned to us, how would we pay back the interest?

Nah bro, YOU don't understand the monetary system. There is no interest owed on the treasuries that are held by the Federal Reserve.  You are repeating disinformation of Edward G Griffin who spins his silly little misinformations, probably because he doesn't think you are smart enough to see what is wrong with The Fed as is.  So he couches it in dumbed down terms and just makes stuff up, like "all the money is loan into existence."  It isn't.  Get your facts straight.

People who actually understand the system, like me, cringe every time some one repeats this falsehood.  Stop making me cringe.  The national debt can totally be paid off.

I stopped taking you seriously at "Nah bro", but I would love to see proof that the fed lends us money at zero interest, because I can list you at least 5 different sources that prove you wrong.

How nice of the federal reserve to loan us money at zero interest.

[DoomDumas]

Each every few month I'm surprise how they can bluff this mess again !  They are really good at doing what they do, to bluff that everything will be fine !  I'm constantly surprise.. now, I no more try to guess when the shit will hit the fan for real, as per my first guess it was due 2 years ago !

Dry food, firearm and a hideout in the forest, with some bitcoin is what we need, and fast !

[myrkul]

Dry food, firearm and a hideout in the forest, with some bitcoin is what we need, and fast !

If you need the first 3, the fourth will do you no good.

[Lethn]

Can't US.gov just declare bankruptcy already, shut down and liquidate to pay back everyone already?

You dont understand the monetary system.  It is not possible to pay everyone back.  ALL of our money, 100% of it, every single dollar in existence, was loaned to us, with interest.  If we paid back every dollar ever loaned to us, how would we pay back the interest?

Nah bro, YOU don't understand the monetary system. There is no interest owed on the treasuries that are held by the Federal Reserve.  You are repeating disinformation of Edward G Griffin who spins his silly little misinformations, probably because he doesn't think you are smart enough to see what is wrong with The Fed as is.  So he couches it in dumbed down terms and just makes stuff up, like "all the money is loan into existence."  It isn't.  Get your facts straight.

People who actually understand the system, like me, cringe every time some one repeats this falsehood.  Stop making me cringe.  The national debt can totally be paid off.

I stopped taking you seriously at "Nah bro", but I would love to see proof that the fed lends us money at zero interest, because I can list you at least 5 different sources that prove you wrong.

How nice of the federal reserve to loan us money at zero interest.

The Federal Reserve doesn't 'officially' loan people money at zero interest but it gets that money back through taxation and the IRS, didn't you watch that collapse of the American dream video? LOL

[Rassah]

Aww, and I was hoping they wouldn't come together or do anything. Had my parachute all ready for the jump and everything.

[Dalkore]

Can't US.gov just declare bankruptcy already, shut down and liquidate to pay back everyone already?

You dont understand the monetary system.  It is not possible to pay everyone back.  ALL of our money, 100% of it, every single dollar in existence, was loaned to us, with interest.  If we paid back every dollar ever loaned to us, how would we pay back the interest?

Nah bro, YOU don't understand the monetary system. There is no interest owed on the treasuries that are held by the Federal Reserve.  You are repeating disinformation of Edward G Griffin who spins his silly little misinformations, probably because he doesn't think you are smart enough to see what is wrong with The Fed as is.  So he couches it in dumbed down terms and just makes stuff up, like "all the money is loan into existence."  It isn't.  Get your facts straight.

People who actually understand the system, like me, cringe every time some one repeats this falsehood.  Stop making me cringe.  The national debt can totally be paid off.

I stopped taking you seriously at "Nah bro", but I would love to see proof that the fed lends us money at zero interest, because I can list you at least 5 different sources that prove you wrong.

How nice of the federal reserve to loan us money at zero interest.

The Federal Reserve doesn't 'officially' loan people money at zero interest but it gets that money back through taxation and the IRS, didn't you watch that collapse of the American dream video? LOL

Actually the Federal Reserves Sells Treasury Bonds from the Treasury in their Open Market Operations to Primary Dealers who act as agents to the public buying Treasuries.  Then the Fed sets the discount rate (interest) and then buyers come in and purchase at their desired yield.   The Fed can purchase these Treasuries (which they currently purchase many of) for their own balance-sheet (ie: Quantitative Easing).   The Fed also sets the reserve ratio for the commercials banks and what assets are allowed for collateral (Commercial Paper, MBS, Older Treasuries, derivatives, etc....).   

Now to the question on how the Fed loans at zero, well there is this thing called the "discount window" where a bank can bring various collateral and then get in return Treasuries and currency credited to their account.  If the interest rate is 0-0.25, then that is what they will being paying to service this collateralized loan.   The flaw that has been exploited by the banks is that they bring very dubious assets (Home equity lines of credit, mortgages and derivatives) and collateral to get basically free money that they can either lend at interest or actually hold with the Fed and earn "free money" because we are actually paying interest on money deposited with the Fed.

I am happy to answer any questions or refute false claims.  We need to all do our homework so we know exactly how our system works.  If you do not know that then your spreading mis-information and that only gives more cover to the real exploitative actions happening in our economy.   

[creativex]

Excellent post Dalkore.

[Rassah]

What Dalkore said

[laughingbear]

Dalkore,

I understand everything you said, and it does not contradict anything that I said.  This explains my understanding of how it works, better than I can.

http://www.peakprosperity.com/crashcourse/chapter-8-fed-money-creation 


If this is not factual, please let me know. 

[Lethn]

I am happy to answer any questions or refute false claims.  We need to all do our homework so we know exactly how our system works.  If you do not know that then your spreading mis-information and that only gives more cover to the real exploitative actions happening in our economy.

I need to do more research in that case thanks for that Dalkore, I'd like to know the sources for where you got that from though.

[Dalkore]

I am happy to answer any questions or refute false claims.  We need to all do our homework so we know exactly how our system works.  If you do not know that then your spreading mis-information and that only gives more cover to the real exploitative actions happening in our economy.

I need to do more research in that case thanks for that Dalkore, I'd like to know the sources for where you got that from though.

I wish it was that easy, it has been years of research to get to a point where I understand atleast the public workings in our financial system and I am still learning about new players and pieces each day.


Here are a couple books:

The Federal Reserve System - Written in 1937, its a sort of official manual

Modern Money Mechanics - Published by one of the reserve banks

Science of Money - Alexander Del Mar  & The Lost Science of Money which is a derivative of this work among others

Lombard Street - This is an important work that is considered by some as the bible of central banking

Tragedy & Hope - Carroll Quigley (1st edition or reprint of 1st edition) - At a normal pace, this will take you 2-3 months, don't rush it.

 

[Korbman]

"I could end the deficit in 5 minutes. [...] You just pass a law that says that anytime there is a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for re-election." -Warren Buffett


I'm always impressed with the dumb people that are elected to office. But then I realize how many dumb people there are in the U.S. and things start to make sense again...

[wachtwoord]

Why doesn't it surprise me that is a Warren Buffet quote?

[Korbman]

Why doesn't it surprise me that is a Warren Buffet quote?

Ha, I know right?

Though as drastic as it sounds, I wonder if it actually would make a difference in the grand scheme of things.