Altcoin4life - HACKED ACCOUNT - Collateral 4 Murderouskirk - Swingdev - ADVICE??

[Altcoin4life]

Hi everyone.

This is the lender Altcoin4life and i am looking for some advice regarding a situation i have regarding a hacked account i hold collateral for. I recently gave a loan to the user murderouskirk - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=182223 for the amount of 0.13 BTC. My lending thread is below (LOAN #16 IN MY LEDGER AT TOP):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1295650.0;all

The borrower murderouskirk was supposed to repay his loan on 20 Jan he is now overdue.


When i gave this loan i did not suspect anything and thought he was a legitimate borrower, i took over account as collateral and he provided a signed message here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1295650.msg13554319#msg13554319

His trust looked ok, i transferred the coins to the borrower soon after securing account as collateral.




Within 12 hours of me sending of the money i started seeing negative trust being given against murderouskirk, people saying he tried to scam them, his trust became -2 neg???

PLEASE NOTE THE NEGS HAPPENED AFTER I GAVE COINS, AT THE TIME OF AGREEMENT THERE WERE NO NEGS.




After about 5 days a user called SwingDev https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=730429 contacted me by PM, and said he was the original owner of the account murderouskirk and that he was scammed. . I told swing that as the repayment date has not arrived, we should wait. Now the date has passed with no repayment.

I asked him for proof that swingdev was the real owner he said he could not find a staked address....... now a few days ago he said..... he had found an address here

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1164721.msg12788990#msg12788990

1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71






I asked that he should send me a signed message from this address 1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71 , he has refused to provide a signed message and is saying that he can send a  few small coins from this address to me instead, this will prove he owns the address, BUT HE IS REFUSING TO GIVE A SIGNED MESSAGE???




From the beginning i advised swingdev he should contact theymos with a hacked account report, he has said he is hesitant as he has heard theymos does not respond and that many people do not get their account back..... NOW HE HAS RECENTLY SENT A REPORT TO THEYMOS A FEW DAYS AGO.





So i wanted to ask lenders especially

Shall i give back the account of murderouskirk to swingdev? or shall i just wait until theymos checks this out and hands it over to the real owner?

Swingdev is REFUSING to give a signed message so am not sure what to do?

Please can i get opinions on this situation from experienced users.

Thanks
Altcoin4life

[zazarb]

I think  first of all you fault that take account which signed message with "fresh" btc address.
the situation is complex and difficult to find a fair solution for both sides.

p.s. don't need create new topic, you can move it.

[whywefight]

demand a signed message from the old owner. if he contacts theymos because his account was hacked, he needs to sign one anyways.

also like zazarab said, never take accounts that cant sign the oldest address you can find.

[Avirunes]

I think  first of all you fault that take account which signed message with "fresh" btc address.
the situation is complex and difficult to find a fair solution for both sides.

p.s. don't need create new topic, you can move it.

Yeah agreed with you @zazarb .

@OP. You are a Hero Member and you should by now know all the things about how lending things works.Please go through all stickies.

And accept a bitcoin address staked 3 months old from next time.

Also you stated that you didnt suspected him at first. So did you got a time to check his last posts.You missed one post by mexxer-2 which was a warning.Post was made 2 hours before you approved the loan

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=post;msg=13685016;topic=1341682.0 Check this

ATM you can only request ECUAMOBI to remove that trust. Thats all what you can do now.

I asked that he should send me a signed message from this address 1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71 , he has refused to provide a signed message and is saying that he can send a  few small coins from this address to me instead, this will prove he owns the address, BUT HE IS REFUSING TO GIVE A SIGNED MESSAGE???

Well if he is saying that he can send few coins(that means he owns the address) then obviously he can go with signing a message.Did he gave any reason for not signing a message?

Also I would like to recommend you to not give the account back.Let theymos check the thing.

Also i would point out some main things:-

1)How did the guy scammed the original owner of murderouskirk?? If he was being hacked ask for any thread that he might have made announcing his account was hacked or scam accusation in case of scam (Check whether the thread was made before the date of 14th january-date on which you gave loan)

2)The original owner SwingDev is a newbie and was just created on 17th january that was 3 days after you approved the loan . I suspect that Swingdev is murderouskirk himself . And i also think he had planned all thing up to make the negative feedback removed by showing that it was being hacked.

[Altcoin4life]

I think  first of all you fault that take account which signed message with "fresh" btc address.
the situation is complex and difficult to find a fair solution for both sides.

p.s. don't need create new topic, you can move it.

Yeah agreed with you @zazarb .

@OP. You are a Hero Member and you should by now know all the things about how lending things works.Please go through all stickies.

And accept a bitcoin address staked 3 months old from next time.

Also you stated that you didnt suspected him at first. So did you got a time to check his last posts.You missed one post by mexxer-2 which was a warning.Post was made 2 hours before you approved the loan

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=post;msg=13685016;topic=1341682.0 Check this

ATM you can only request ECUAMOBI to remove that trust. Thats all what you can do now.

Hi thanks for your advice, it looks like a made a mistake and did not do my research properly on the borrower.

I may have missed important red flags about this borrower.

Looks like it is a mistake that i have paid for and i will have to be much more careful next time.

Cheers
Altcoin4life

[SwingDev]

Well since you made two threads I'll put my response here as well.


Alright. Now this is really starting to frustrate me Altcoin4life. Please return my developer / hero account already and stop finding ways to procrastinate.

I'm assuming you made this post as a result of me telling you I was planning to write up a report on the events surrounding my stolen account. You wanted to get out a post before I did and sure I can understand this, but I have THOROUGHLY proven the Hero / Developer account MurderousKirk that you paid 0.13 BTC for is in fact mine.

Lets waste even more time on this and run through the events from my perspective shall we?

1/17/16 - I return from a short hiatus (away since the third) during which I've been busy trying to get myself an income to live on. You know, real life important distractions. I come back to find I cannot log in, and there is no info about my account tied to my email anymore. I check the account to see that starting on the 14'th there are posts that I have not made, apparently trying to scam people and get loans. It should be noted that this is completely unusual behavior for my account. I've spent years building my reputation in the cryptocurrency scene on bitcointalk, my own slack group CryptoCommunity with hundreds of members, and on twitter. I have NEVER asked a single person for a loan and have on multiple occasions strongly encouraged users to NEVER participate in 'back room' trades. I strongly advocate users to ONLY exchange cryptos on a functioning exchange.

So I warn the holders of my currency that the developer account was compromised and start digging through the post history to see that Altcoin4life has paid a user 0.13 BTC for the account to be used as collateral on a loan. "HOORAY! A trusted member of the community has recovered my account for me! This is great hopefully no more malicious activity will happen! I'll notify them immediately" I think to myself.

So I post in his thread letting him know.

Hi this is Altcoin4life posting from the account of murderouskirk.

I have now SECURED THIS ACCOUNT as collateral and will now transfer coins.

Please can the borrower KEEP IN CONTACT in the future with me by PM from his SECOND USERNAME he posted on the thread if there are any issues.

Thanks

​--------------------------------------------------------
​Altcoin4life
​​​Contact between 2-10 pm UK time only!
​----------------------------------------------------​--​--

Hi everyone

I have NOW SENT the loan of 0.13 BTC to the address of murderouskirk. PROOF is below:

https://blockchain.info/tx/d820f03b63d128dd21c8d5c26f848bc4837ff2771f723512c53e605965cd6e38

Please make REPAYMENT of 0.1612 BTC by 20 January 2016 to my address:

1HbPkpQiKgq48mCpL5BTxyVsHf4fjM8uop


To the BORROWER:

Please contact me BEFORE the repayment EXPIRY TIME and if you have any ISSUES in paying, YOU MUST PM me from your second username as i have secured your original account.

I will now add your loan details to my LEDGER RECORD above.

Many Thanks and i look forward to my repayment on time.

Cheers

​--------------------------------------------------------
​Altcoin4life
​​​Contact between 2-10 pm UK time only!
​----------------------------------------------------​--​--

This is my account. It's been hacked and I have no access. He's been running around scamming people in my name. Altcoin4life you have control over it? If you sent him money it's long gone.

https://twitter.com/CryptoPumpInfo is me I run Swing Coin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1164721.msg13580743#msg13580743 and crypto community https://crypto.typeform.com/to/ahJtmF

So I get a PM from Altcoin4life asking me not to post anymore in his thread. He seems like he's quite willing to work with me.

Hi swingdev this is the lender altcoin4life about your accusation of your hacked account.

You posted on my lending thread saying that you are the real owner of murderouskirk.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1295650.0;all

As you know i have recently given a loan to this user and am actually holding the account as collateral. I have his account under my control.

My best advice to you is to contact the admin theymos in this thread and follow his instructions.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=497545.0


If you want i can help you with this hack....

DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF THAT YOU OWNED THIS ACCOUNT BEFORE IT WAS HACKED?

MAYBE YOU SAVED A PM WITH A STAKED BITCOIN ADDRESS?

CAN YOU GIVE ME A PM CONTAINING ANY MESSAGES WITH PROOF OF AN OLD BTC ADDRESS THAT YOU CAN SIGN?

So swingdev i really would like to help you if you have genuinely been hacked...

PLEASE PROVIDE PROOF TO ME BY PM ONLY.... i will consider your case and maybe you can get your account back.

I WOULD ALSO APPRECIATE WE KEEP IN CONTACT ONLY BY PM AND NOT PUBLICLY ON MY LENDING THREAD.

PLEASE ONLY PM ME TO SORT OUT THIS MATTER.

Many Thanks
Lender
Altcoin4life

So like I said above, I'm busy lately. I do not feel like digging through 100's of posts to find a bitcoin address. The only address I could think of that I posted was coinbase addresses, which I wrongly assumed you could not sign. He encouraged my to contact Theymos yes, and yes I told him I have little faith in the recovery system here on this forum. I've repeatedly heard account recovery requests get completely ignored or take months to go through. Plus, as I said, I didn't feel like digging through hundreds of posts when I was pretty sure I had nothing to sign.

I gave him a pile of circumstantial evidence (other accounts under the same name, links to my slack group with hundreds of users that will back me up, twitter, posts from other accounts with the same name, etc.. etc..)

I also told him that I was ok with waiting for the loan to default as a courtesy. Given that it was a stolen account and the blatant scam attempts he made it was pretty clear the guy had no intention of paying him back. How he even convinced Altcoin4life to give him a loan is beyond me given Altcoin4life required an aged digital signature.

So I give him some time, we decide to touch base again after the loan date passes. I don't bother to dig for an addy because he seems willing to help and I hoped to save some time. I figured once the guy defaulted he'd have no use for the account, and given his apparent willingness to help he might give it back without me having to waste hours digging.

So here comes the deadline for the return, I send him a message and get the following.

oh well kind of my fault  as i did not get an old signed message for quite a large loan.... about 50 usd lost?

this is a mistake learned ..... as i was quite sure it was not hacked.....

i asked him a few questions as he really convince me.... oh well??

anyway will chat soon around 21 jan

cheers

Hi

He said he will pay me 4 february

So i think i i will wait

Thanks

At this point I'm getting pretty frustrated. It dawns on me that having no access to my developer account, he could endanger my entire community by passing it on or selling it to someone else.

So I start digging. I spend the time and fine THIS POST from october 26 with a coinbase address. I try sending some btc to it from bittrex and to my delight it's still tied to my coinbase account. I tell him the good news, and that I'd be more than happy to send a few satoshis through it to his account to prove ownership (thinking I still cannot get a signature from coinbase).

He proceeds to ignore the message.

I dig in google and find out I CAN sign my address in coinbase. HOORAY! This is great! I send the signature to Theymos on the 22nd. I have still not heard back from Theymos (no surprise there).

So I wait until he makes another post and PM him again... a few times..

It wasn't until I tell him that I plan to write up a report on the events that I hear back. I tell him I want to be clear on if he plans to keep it now that I have proof, or if he wants to be the good samaritan that helps me recover the account in my report.

Here's his response, and my reply.

!!! WARNING: This user is a newbie. If you are expecting a message from a more veteran member, then this is an imposter !!!

Hi again

It is good you have contacted theymos.

First of all i did not purchase the account like you said.... this was held by me after the borrower defaulted on a loan.

Secondly and most importantly you still have failed to give me any proof whatsoever of an old staked address that you posted on this forum?

1) PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK WITH YOUR PUBLICLY STAKED ADDRESS FROM AT LEAST 3 MONTHS AGO?

2) PLEASE PROVIDE A SIGNED MESSAGE FROM THE COINBASE ADDRESS YOU SAID YOU STAKED BEFORE?

You still have failed to provide me any proof by pm or any links that that i can check that your staked the address?

I HAVE BEEN STRONGLY ADVISED BY MULTIPLE MEMBERS ON THIS FORUM THAT I MUST NOT RELEASE THE ACCOUNT TO YOU UNLESS YOU PROVIDE SOLID PROOF WITH LINKS OF AN OLD STAKED BTC ADDRESS!!!

PLEASE PROVIDE PROOF FOR BOTH ITEMS ABOVE ASAP, otherwise just wait for theymos.

It is now up to you if you want your account back or not.

Cheers
Altcoin4life

1) PLEASE PROVIDE A LINK WITH YOUR PUBLICLY STAKED ADDRESS FROM AT LEAST 3 MONTHS AGO?

I have already provided the link to the address man. here it is again. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1164721.msg12788990#msg12788990

1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71

2) PLEASE PROVIDE A SIGNED MESSAGE FROM THE COINBASE ADDRESS YOU SAID YOU STAKED BEFORE?

No. I will not do this and you do not need it. Giving you the digital signature for the only proof I have is the same as giving you the backdoor key to secure the account permanently. This is not ok for you to require in this situation. I'm not here for a loan I'm here for my stolen account back that you gave someone bitcoin for after failing to check the proof you are now asking ME for.

We can EASILY prove I own that address without a digital signature as I'm sure you're very aware of.

Proceeding is 100% in your hands not mine. You have my account. You have a multitude of circumstantial evidence that I'm the real MurderousKirk. And we now have the ability to route money through aan address PROVING I have access to it just as a digital signature proves.

Post any valid bitcoin address and I will push a few satoshis through 1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71 to it.

He finally agrees to let me prove ownership by sending coins from the aged bitcoin account to his. He also repeatedly demands my digital signature.

Hi ok

thanks for the message with address 1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71, i must have missed it in my messages.

I still do not understand how if you provide a signed message , i will have it permanently or will not give it back?

You also say you can send a few satoshis from this btc address you posted before...1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71,


OK please send me around 0.0001 btc to my address

1HbPkpQiKgq48mCpL5BTxyVsHf4fjM8uop


Once you have sent it let me know,


PLEASE ALSO EXPLAIN HOW SIGNING A MESSAGE PUTS YOUR ACCOUNT AT RISK? I DO NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS?

I will wait for the 0.0001 btc and also an explanation why you can not give a signed message?  I NEED A SIGNED MESSAGE

Thanks

And my response

!!! WARNING: This user is a newbie. If you are expecting a message from a more veteran member, then this is an imposter !!!

You also say you can send a few satoshis from this btc address you posted before...1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71,

OK please send me around 0.0001 btc to my address

1HbPkpQiKgq48mCpL5BTxyVsHf4fjM8uop

Done https://blockchain.info/address/1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71

I still do not understand how if you provide a signed message , i will have it permanently or will not give it back?

PLEASE ALSO EXPLAIN HOW SIGNING A MESSAGE PUTS YOUR ACCOUNT AT RISK? I DO NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS?

I will wait for the 0.0001 btc and also an explanation why you can not give a signed message?

Alright, I'll explain.

Pretend I've stolen your account. You just suddenly have no access, and no way to recover it. The ONLY claim you have is the digital signature, which if lucky Theymos will read and recover for you.

This makes your digital signature more private than your password. It overrides your password and can be used to take your account back.

Now if another user has a proper digital signature proof to your account because they asked for it and you gave it to them, you could take the account from them, sell it, and probably take it again after that.

All the accounts you hold as collateral should have by your rules given you a digital signature as well. You could pass ownership of the accounts to anyone and take them back with that data.

Understand now?

I NEED A SIGNED MESSAGE

You absolutely do not. I've just proven to you with a transaction that MurderousKirk is 100% rightfully my account. The signed message request is irrelevant and invasive.

Now please, will you send the account login credentials to murderouskirk@gmail.com so I can report to my holders that you retrieved it from the thief and returned it to the proper owner. I'm rather tired of playing account hot potato at this point and want to secure my currency's thread from potential malicious changes.

I have not heard back from him since I paid him and proved ownership. He made this thread instead. Altcoin4life I'm tired of this game. At this point you know damn well that I'm the owner. I did not request a loan from you and your failure to follow your own rules got you into this position. You had a great opportunity to increase your rep by being the guy that recovered and returned a stolen Hero / Devloper account. Instead what I can only assume is greed has let you to delay as much as possible in the hoped that you will get your BTC back from a scammer.

I'm done with this game Altcoin4life. I appreciate you not messing with the account and editing things, but I've had enough. If you do not return the account to MurderousKirk@gmail.com within 24 hours I will leave negative rep on your profile with a link to this report. If you do decide to return it I will update this post to reflect, and leave positive rep with a link to this report. It's that simple.

Fingers crossed you decide to do the right thing, or that Theymos pulls through in a timely manner.

demand a signed message from the old owner. if he contacts theymos because his account was hacked, he needs to sign one anyways.

also like zazarab said, never take accounts that cant sign the oldest address you can find.

This is awful advice. I have proven ownership by sending btc from the aged bitcoint account to his.

NEVER GIVE YOUR DIGITAL TO ANOTHER USER IF YOU CARE ABOUT ITS SECURITY! DOING SO PERMANENTLY ALLOWS ACCOUNT THEFT REGARDLESS OF PASSWORD AND EMAIL CHANGES! ONLY GIVE YOUR SIGNATURES TO THEYMOS.

The loan requirements are ridiculous to demand signatures and are probably the cause of a large amount of stolen accounts. A simple transaction proves control over the address just fine without compromising the account permanantly.

[whywefight]

NEVER GIVE YOUR DIGITAL TO ANOTHER USER IF YOU CARE ABOUT ITS SECURITY! DOING SO PERMANENTLY ALLOWS ACCOUNT THEFT REGARDLESS OF PASSWORD AND EMAIL CHANGES! ONLY GIVE YOUR SIGNATURES TO THEYMOS.

thats the biggest bullshit i have ever read on this forum... and you should know this if you are the owner of a hero account...

just sign a message that your are the old owner. why is it that hard? thats basics when it comes to lending. check the lending sections. thats what signed message are for, to proof you are in controll of an wallet/address

yes sending shows it do, but if i were him, i would demand a signed message. same will theymos do.

[SwingDev]

NEVER GIVE YOUR DIGITAL TO ANOTHER USER IF YOU CARE ABOUT ITS SECURITY! DOING SO PERMANENTLY ALLOWS ACCOUNT THEFT REGARDLESS OF PASSWORD AND EMAIL CHANGES! ONLY GIVE YOUR SIGNATURES TO THEYMOS.

thats the biggest bullshit i have ever read on this forum... and you should know this if you are the owner of a hero account...

just sign a message that your are the old owner. why is it that hard? thats basics when it comes to lending. check the lending sections. thats what signed message are for, to proof you are in controll of an wallet/address

yes sending shows it do, but if i were him, i would demand a signed message. same will theymos do.

How is that bullshit? Anyone with a signed message can request account recovery from Theymos. I will absolutely not give other users this information, and have proven ownership with

THIS TRANSACTION:

https://blockchain.info/address/1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71

If you don't believe this compromises your account make a public post with a signed message and a link to where you posted the addy, then just wait for your aaccount to vanish from your hands. To say otherwise and encourage users to spread their digital signatures is immensely foolish and irresponsible.

What does a digital signature prove that a transaction does not? Also I couldn't care less if it's basic lending practice (irresponsible as it is). I never asked for a loan.

[whywefight]

NEVER GIVE YOUR DIGITAL TO ANOTHER USER IF YOU CARE ABOUT ITS SECURITY! DOING SO PERMANENTLY ALLOWS ACCOUNT THEFT REGARDLESS OF PASSWORD AND EMAIL CHANGES! ONLY GIVE YOUR SIGNATURES TO THEYMOS.

thats the biggest bullshit i have ever read on this forum... and you should know this if you are the owner of a hero account...

just sign a message that your are the old owner. why is it that hard? thats basics when it comes to lending. check the lending sections. thats what signed message are for, to proof you are in controll of an wallet/address

yes sending shows it do, but if i were him, i would demand a signed message. same will theymos do.

How is that bullshit? Anyone with a signed message can request account recovery from Theymos. I will absolutely not give other users this information, and have proven ownership with

THIS TRANSACTION:

https://blockchain.info/address/1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71

If you don't believe this compromises your account make a public post with a signed message and a link to where you posted the addy, then just wait for your aaccount to vanish from your hands. To say otherwise and encourage users to spread their digital signatures is immensely foolish and irresponsible.

What does a digital signature prove that a transaction does not? Also I couldn't care less if it's basic lending practice (irresponsible as it is). I never asked for a loan.

Dude....

Code:

Proof of ownership:
-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
I am whywefight from bitcointalk.org, today is 26.01.2016
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
18fZyjcEiP856yYHb1K3r2uKVe3t4ysSdJ
IEq0WhNzjrYaEhQN/ErbLiLnVkvsePVjW4nrHh0EdKglF16ZaG74XeQ2mALWtTnCuGEi/gW/focdMlQM+z0R5uY=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

proof of me signing this address and using it for all proof of ownership -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=920631.msg12036740#msg12036740

Oh have a look, i have a public signed message more than 40 times here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1144224.msg12055802


Now, go claim my account...

[SwingDev]

NEVER GIVE YOUR DIGITAL TO ANOTHER USER IF YOU CARE ABOUT ITS SECURITY! DOING SO PERMANENTLY ALLOWS ACCOUNT THEFT REGARDLESS OF PASSWORD AND EMAIL CHANGES! ONLY GIVE YOUR SIGNATURES TO THEYMOS.

thats the biggest bullshit i have ever read on this forum... and you should know this if you are the owner of a hero account...

just sign a message that your are the old owner. why is it that hard? thats basics when it comes to lending. check the lending sections. thats what signed message are for, to proof you are in controll of an wallet/address

yes sending shows it do, but if i were him, i would demand a signed message. same will theymos do.

How is that bullshit? Anyone with a signed message can request account recovery from Theymos. I will absolutely not give other users this information, and have proven ownership with

THIS TRANSACTION:

https://blockchain.info/address/1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71

If you don't believe this compromises your account make a public post with a signed message and a link to where you posted the addy, then just wait for your aaccount to vanish from your hands. To say otherwise and encourage users to spread their digital signatures is immensely foolish and irresponsible.

What does a digital signature prove that a transaction does not? Also I couldn't care less if it's basic lending practice (irresponsible as it is). I never asked for a loan.

Dude....

Code:

Proof of ownership:
-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
I am whywefight from bitcointalk.org, today is 26.01.2016
-----BEGIN SIGNATURE-----
18fZyjcEiP856yYHb1K3r2uKVe3t4ysSdJ
IEq0WhNzjrYaEhQN/ErbLiLnVkvsePVjW4nrHh0EdKglF16ZaG74XeQ2mALWtTnCuGEi/gW/focdMlQM+z0R5uY=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

proof of me signing this address and using it for all proof of ownership -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=920631.msg12036740#msg12036740

Oh have a look, i have a public signed message more than 40 times here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1144224.msg12055802


Now, go claim my account...

This is amazingly stupid.

I'm not into the account stealing game but in case anyone wants to try for the account whywefight he just gave you his account recovery information.

Just go here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=497545.0

Format the info he just gave you how Theymos wants it and send him a PM with it.

Literally the only thing stopping whywefight from getting his account stolen is the same thing that's preventing me from recovering mine. Theymos not checking his inbox and processing what I imagine is an overwhelming amount of recovery requests. If you get lucky he might read your PM and give you whywefight.

Brilliant..  

(How do you guys not comprehend this? Just because the account recovery on this site is awful does not mean it's ok to gamble on the fact that theymos will never return accounts. Giving your digital signature is the same as giving someone your proof of ownership. I can't for the life of me understand this line of thinking and how there's an entire section of this forum that encourages giving your recovery information away. I mean seriously what the hell?)

Anyway that's irrelevant. I've proven to be the owner of the account. If anyone can tell me what a digital signature proves over my transaction that I've already sent Altcoin4life I will consider your argument.

Please return my account Altcoin4life so I can secure my currency and prevent malicious changes. I understand your hesitation man, I do. But this has gone on long enough. You know damn well you gave a loan to a hacked account, and that I'm the proper owner. You have literally nothing to gain from keeping it. Returning it is a sign of professionalism and trustworthy actions. Keeping it is a sign of greed and punishing me for an account thief tricking you.

What's the point in keeping it? Why wont you give my account back after I've proven with both solid evidence and circumstantially it's mine?

Please return the account and let me promote how trustworthy and professional you are, over the alternative.

[whywefight]

This is amazingly stupid.

Mate, we are willing to help you but let me reformat your quote:

You are amazingly stupid.

No one is gonna do shit with the messages i provided. I am granting you permission to try to get my account and if you manage to do it, by using one of my signed messages, i will pay you a bounty of 10BTC. On top, you can keep my account.

One last try, sign a message:

I am the real owner of the account [PUTYOURNAMEHERE] today is [DATE]

And i am sure Altcoin4life will give you the account back. If you dont understand how signing message works, you dont deserve a Hero Member Account. Sorry to say this...

The fun part is, you dont send the message theymos wants to altcoin4life, you would need to send a DIFFERENT text to altcoin4life. This will be amazing when you realize how you made your self looking.

You sir, just made my day.

[Altcoin4life]

Hi everyone just to let you know  that swingdev has still not given a signed message from an old staked address.

But he has sent me 0.0001 BTC to my normal repayment address 1HbPkpQiKgq48mCpL5BTxyVsHf4fjM8uop - Proof is below:

https://blockchain.info/tx/ccae00b48dd1d0a7f80897fc063b469f16ee9c45f09ddb6450a0fe153b6dae74


If he has now proven??? that he owns the old staked address 1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71  that was posted here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1164721.msg12788990#msg12788990

WHY CAN HE NOT JUST SIGN A MESSAGE FROM THIS ADDRESS? DOES THIS PROVE HE OWNS THE ADDRESS AS HE HAS MADE A PAYMENT FROM IT?

SWINGDEV, PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE ASKED MULTIPLE TIMES NOW.... WHERE IS THE SIGNED MESSAGE ?

Thanks
Altcoin4life

[whywefight]

Hi everyone just to let you know  that swingdev has still not given a signed message from an old staked address.

But he has sent me 0.0001 BTC to my normal repayment address 1HbPkpQiKgq48mCpL5BTxyVsHf4fjM8uop - Proof is below:

https://blockchain.info/tx/ccae00b48dd1d0a7f80897fc063b469f16ee9c45f09ddb6450a0fe153b6dae74


If he has now proven??? that he owns the old staked address 1E6soVzn7Z5NGguwD9sZfXkVmn8a51Cg71  that was posted here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1164721.msg12788990#msg12788990

WHY CAN HE NOT JUST SIGN A MESSAGE FROM THIS ADDRESS? DOES THIS PROVE HE OWNS THE ADDRESS AS HE HAS MADE A PAYMENT FROM IT?

SWINGDEV, PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE ASKED MULTIPLE TIMES NOW.... WHERE IS THE SIGNED MESSAGE ?

Thanks
Altcoin4life

read the above posts and you will see why... did you ask him to sign a certain message?

[SwingDev]

I will not provide my account recovery details to other users on this forum. I refuse to do this.

I have proven ownership over the account with a transaction.

A signed message does nothing to improve credibility.

I simply cannot make this any clearer and I don't understand why you guys demand I give my account recovery details.

Please explain to me why you are demanding account recovery information after I have proven ownership.

[whywefight]

I will not provide my account recovery details to other users on this forum. I refuse to do this.

I have proven ownership over the account with a transaction.

A signed message does nothing to improve credibility.

I simply cannot make this any clearer and I don't understand why you guys demand I give my account recovery details.

Please explain to me why you are demanding account recovery information after I have proven ownership.

Okay first of all, if you are developing a coin, please stop it as your knowledge about basics is unbelievable. Do all your future users, investors and bagholders a favour. stop it.

By signing a message you proof ownership. If you sign a random message when asked, it states you are the owner. Like i said before: YOU SHOULD NOT SEND ALTCOIN4LIFE THE SAME MESSAGE YOU SENT THEYMOS!!!!

This should be clear. If you really think one of the messages would enable you to get my account, i beg on my knees please do so. Please do it! NOW! Do you think signing a message was invented to recover bitcointalk accounts??? ffs... as a lender i would say: no signed message, no return. If you sent a message to theymos and you do not understand how it works, wait till you get a reply. We all tried but you dont want to understand.

[SwingDev]

Edit* I've misunderstood that Theymos asks for a non-empty signed message. I understand now.

Do you think signing a message was invented to recover bitcointalk accounts??? ffs...

Absolutely not. Signed messages were invented to prove ownership and access to a particular address. It has been picked up by bitcointalk in combination with an aged post of the address to prove ownership over the account. Any signed message combined with proper post proves ownership. What makes you think posting different signed massages is any less proof?

Let me be clear, you asking for

"I am the real owner of the account [PUTYOURNAMEHERE] today is [DATE]"

Is the first logical thing I've heard. Up until this point I've been asked for a generic signed message.

Theymos recovers with empty signed messages, so including info does make sense as a means of proof between users. An empty signed message is as good as posting your recovery credentials.

[EDIT - this was the root of the misunderstanding. I was under the impression that theymos requests empty signed messages, and that Altcoin4Life was too. He did ask me to include "any message" in the signature and I failed to notice. I actually sent Theymos an empty signed message on accident.]

If Altcoin4life makes a public post guaranteeing the return of the account with a non-empty signed message I will send it to him and post a positive review of his credibility, with explanation of the misunderstanding on my end.

I'd also like to note that you've all still failed to give any reason that this is better than a transaction.

(If anything this misunderstanding is proof that I have never dealt with bitcoin / account loans)

[ABitNut]

You're a bit overbearing here SwingDev. While Altcoin4life may not have been cautious enough with accepting the loan all of this is because your account got hacked.

I can understand that Altcoin4life is extra cautious now, since they've just been tricked. It seems like a good idea for them to get some input from the community to make sure they're going to make the right decision.

I'd also like to note that you've all still failed to give any reason that this is better than a transaction.

Because it's much easier to trick someone into sending some satoshis to a specific address than it is to get them to sign a message stating their account was hacked and they're the original owner?

[whywefight]

Edit* I've misunderstood that Theymos asks for a non-empty signed message. I understand now.

Okay first of all, if you are developing a coin, please stop it as your knowledge about basics is unbelievable. Do all your future users, investors and bagholders a favour. stop it.

By signing a message you proof ownership. If you sign a random message when asked, it states you are the owner. Like i said before: YOU SHOULD NOT SEND ALTCOIN4LIFE THE SAME MESSAGE YOU SENT THEYMOS!!!!

This should be clear. If you really think one of the messages would enable you to get my account, i beg on my knees please do so. Please do it! NOW! Do you think signing a message was invented to recover bitcointalk accounts??? ffs... as a lender i would say: no signed message, no return. If you sent a message to theymos and you do not understand how it works, wait till you get a reply. We all tried but you dont want to understand.

Absolutely not. Signed messages were invented to prove ownership and access to a particular address. It has been picked up by bitcointalk in combination with an aged post of the address to prove ownership over the account. Any signed message combined with proper post proves ownership. What makes you think posting different signed massages is any less proof?

Let me be clear, you asking for

"I am the real owner of the account [PUTYOURNAMEHERE] today is [DATE]"

Is the first logical thing I've heard. Up until this point I've been asked for a generic signed message.

Theymos recovers with empty signed messages, so including info does make sense as a means of proof between users. An empty signed message is as good as posting your recovery credentials.

[EDIT - this was the root of the misunderstanding. I was under the impression that theymos requests empty signed messages, and that Altcoin4Life was too. He did ask me to include "any message" in the signature and I failed to notice. I actually sent Theymos an empty signed message on accident.]

If Altcoin4life makes a public post guaranteeing the return of the account with a non-empty signed message I will send it to him.

I'd also like to note that you've all still failed to give any reason that this is better than a transaction.

(If anything this misunderstanding is proof that I have never dealt with bitcoin / account loans)

I am glad you got it now

No hard feelings

[SwingDev]

I'd also like to note that you've all still failed to give any reason that this is better than a transaction.

Because it's much easier to trick someone into sending some satoshis to a specific address than it is to get them to sign a message stating their account was hacked and they're the original owner?

Thank you. This is what I was looking for. That is a perfectly logical reason for me to supply a signed message.

I am glad you got it now

No hard feelings

Thanks whywefight, I appreciate the help.

[Avirunes]

Sorry swingdev.But sending coins to an address does makes you an owner but it is still not secured . WHY?

What if later on Altcoin4life come on saying at sometime that he was in hold of the account as collateral.Is that transaction a valid proof ? OFFCOURSE NOT

And also if you were being scammed or hacked and you realised it on1/17/16 .WHERE THE HELL IS THE SCAM ACCUSATION THREAD?
I think you are also not a fool to not  to make a scam accusation thread to warn other guys in forum.Also i can see you gave red trust to the hacked account without reference.How can you think that someone gonna believe those feedback without reference when it is the case of scam ?.

Also i don't find a valid reason behind not signing a message .If you hold the address and can send coins youncan also for sure sign a message.