[ANNOUNCEMENT] FRC TOTAL IS OVER 10,000,000 COINS IN LESS THAN 3 WEEKS

[smoothie]

Also about the 80% that you keep, i havent really seen a faucet or something (from the "foundation") to keep this coin flowing, you just keep it for yourselves hoping to get some value.. AND THAT IS BAD
Start giving it to people

Faucets are something I'll be advocating for, but were not going to distribute any coins until the foundation is set up and everything is done according to a defined procedure which sets clear limits on what can an can not be done.  Even something like a faucet needs rules on how it will be conducted.  Were certainly going to prohibit any managers from transferring funds to themselves, but their are a whole mess of bylaws that need to be discussed, written down and scrutinized before coins start flying around.  Come to our forums and describe the kinds of rules YOU would be satisfied with.

Am I reading this right - the majority of coins are going to a foundation that hasn't even been set up yet?

Isn't that kind of the wrong order to do things in?

+1

[scrybe]

Also about the 80% that you keep, i havent really seen a faucet or something (from the "foundation") to keep this coin flowing, you just keep it for yourselves hoping to get some value.. AND THAT IS BAD
Start giving it to people

Faucets are something I'll be advocating for, but were not going to distribute any coins until the foundation is set up and everything is done according to a defined procedure which sets clear limits on what can an can not be done.  Even something like a faucet needs rules on how it will be conducted.  Were certainly going to prohibit any managers from transferring funds to themselves, but their are a whole mess of bylaws that need to be discussed, written down and scrutinized before coins start flying around.  Come to our forums and describe the kinds of rules YOU would be satisfied with.

LOL the ironic thing is who holds the coins now? That would be the equivalent of your statement already. This is the essence of centralization and why it is bullshit.

Have you ever participated in a club or other group that has a local board and bylaws? City Council? County, State, or Federal government? If you think the players in any of those games all trust each other, you have another think coming.

You are advocating an approach of NO trust, is that the position that the developers have earned? There will never be a successful project without someone, somewhere that at some point during the process has full access to something critical (even if that someone is a computer agent, it's still being trusted.)

Maaku has said at least 5 times (that I have seen, most likely more)  that the keys are in a safe location to be given to the foundation once it forms. Treating this like he has personal access to a live wallet and is willing to spend them freely is disingenuous at best, but more likely an absolute, bald-faced lie.

Take the troll-stick out of your ass for a bit and quit whining about the same stuff (incorrectly) over and over.

[crazy_rabbit]

Also about the 80% that you keep, i havent really seen a faucet or something (from the "foundation") to keep this coin flowing, you just keep it for yourselves hoping to get some value.. AND THAT IS BAD
Start giving it to people

Faucets are something I'll be advocating for, but were not going to distribute any coins until the foundation is set up and everything is done according to a defined procedure which sets clear limits on what can an can not be done.  Even something like a faucet needs rules on how it will be conducted.  Were certainly going to prohibit any managers from transferring funds to themselves, but their are a whole mess of bylaws that need to be discussed, written down and scrutinized before coins start flying around.  Come to our forums and describe the kinds of rules YOU would be satisfied with.

LOL the ironic thing is who holds the coins now? That would be the equivalent of your statement already. This is the essence of centralization and why it is bullshit.

Have you ever participated in a club or other group that has a local board and bylaws? City Council? County, State, or Federal government? If you think the players in any of those games all trust each other, you have another think coming.

You are advocating an approach of NO trust, is that the position that the developers have earned? There will never be a successful project without someone, somewhere that at some point during the process has full access to something critical (even if that someone is a computer agent, it's still being trusted.)

Maaku has said at least 5 times (that I have seen, most likely more)  that the keys are in a safe location to be given to the foundation once it forms. Treating this like he has personal access to a live wallet and is willing to spend them freely is disingenuous at best, but more likely an absolute, bald-faced lie.

Take the troll-stick out of your ass for a bit and quit whining about the same stuff (incorrectly) over and over.

Wow, has the history of Bitcoin totally been forgotten? How many times as an absolutely secure private key gotten stolen and users lose all their coins? Sorry if some of us are bitching about it, but everyone knows this place is scam city. We have to be hyper-critical of these things.

"There will never be a successful project without someone, somewhere that at some point during the process has full access to something critical"

But most other crypto-currencies are the exact opposite of what you are saying. Satoshi only had "full access" to bitcoin while it was still in his head. Once he open sourced the protocol it was free and no one had centralized control. Thats the whole point- to build a system where you don't need to trust anyone.

[Bicknellski]

But most other crypto-currencies are the exact opposite of what you are saying. Satoshi only had "full access" to bitcoin while it was still in his head. Once he open sourced the protocol it was free and no one had centralized control. Thats the whole point- to build a system where you don't need to trust anyone.

And? How many times do you need to repeat that?  What about a fully democratic system where the entire user base is afforded a large share of the decision making or if you will great share of the currency? Maybe if you look at this not as a deficit rather as positive you can see the potential for this to work as a liberating factor for the currency. Even if it modestly adopts some new way of distributing the coins democratically, not based on usury like you advocate, or the nepotistic-cleptocracy that your limited imagination seems to have for the foundation. Clearly, what we want is neither and all were are asking is it possible to get a better model or template to build from for an even better currency next time.

Anyhow moaning about it and not offering any suggestions really gets us know where. At some point you just have to ignore the baby crying in the bedroom and let it fall to sleep so the grown ups can get on with their evening. Might want to read a little more in depth about the theory and then also help the FFoundation write the rules and formulate ways to dispense the trust democratically. How many more posts can you write that are same thing anyhow... are you not interested in finding alternatives and bettering currency or are you simply of the opinion that you and a select few should get to build the biggest baddest machine and you get to hoard the coins and watch them grow in value till you all are Freicoin millionaires? That is the real greed... the real problem is that very fact people like yourself have little or no imagination of the potential if you get this to work. There are alternative solution that actually are democratic and could help usher in a better world, seriously no bullshit there, and not through foundations with a small board but through a community working together to find a solution and to accept all ideas and opinions a participatory economy and society. What you advocate is the status quo and the person with the biggest fastest most cost efficient mining rig should win. Very very limited scope and perspective.

[scrybe]

"There will never be a successful project without someone, somewhere that at some point during the process has full access to something critical"

But most other crypto-currencies are the exact opposite of what you are saying. Satoshi only had "full access" to bitcoin while it was still in his head. Once he open sourced the protocol it was free and no one had centralized control. Thats the whole point- to build a system where you don't need to trust anyone.

You just proved my point. There is always a "trusted party" in something like bitcoin at some point in development. The trust might only be IRC deep, but it was still trust.

Now we have a small group of folks who have been consistently talking about their plan to have a temporary bootstrap and then get out of the way. It might be different than the approach Satoshi took, but the intent is the same. Handle initial distribution according to the plan that gained consensus, and then step out of the way. At a minimum you have to trust a developer to WANT his project to succeed, which may not be true in all cases, but generally is the case, especially for the "True Believer" types which are present.


The repeated accusations of the most base intentions possible are counterproductive, and as has been said many times, misplaced in the wrong forum, to try to improve FRC. Vote with your coins! Hold FRC or don't, but the BS and misinformation campaign is just making a lot of people look like asshats, not oracles.

[scrybe]

But most other crypto-currencies are the exact opposite of what you are saying. Satoshi only had "full access" to bitcoin while it was still in his head. Once he open sourced the protocol it was free and no one had centralized control. Thats the whole point- to build a system where you don't need to trust anyone.

And? How many times do you need to repeat that?  What about a fully democratic system where the entire user base is afforded a large share of the decision making or if you will great share of the currency? Maybe if you look at this not as a deficit rather as positive you can see the potential for this to work as a liberating factor for the currency. Even if it modestly adopts some new way of distributing the coins democratically, not based on usury like you advocate, or the nepotistic-cleptocracy that your limited imagination seems to have for the foundation. Clearly, what we want is neither and all were are asking is it possible to get a better model or template to build from for an even better currency next time.

Anyhow moaning about it and not offering any suggestions really gets us know where. At some point you just have to ignore the baby crying in the bedroom and let it fall to sleep so the grown ups can get on with their evening. Might want to read a little more in depth about the theory and then also help the FFoundation write the rules and formulate ways to dispense the trust democratically. How many more posts can you write that are same thing anyhow... are you not interested in finding alternatives and bettering currency or are you simply of the opinion that you and a select few should get to build the biggest baddest machine and you get to hoard the coins and watch them grow in value till you all are Freicoin millionaires? That is the real greed... the real problem is that very fact people like yourself have little or no imagination of the potential if you get this to work. There are alternative solution that actually are democratic and could help usher in a better world, seriously no bullshit there, and not through foundations with a small board but through a community working together to find a solution and to accept all ideas and opinions a participatory economy and society. What you advocate is the status quo and the person with the biggest fastest most cost efficient mining rig should win. Very very limited scope and perspective.

How do you propose making decisions with this fractious bunch without some sort of executive body? This body is not acting like a cohesive community, it's more like a troll zoo. I understand in some cultures the drive to consensus is important enough it subsume individual desires, but that is not universally true, especially here.

The other difficulty is that most of the potential user base for this coin does not know or care it exists. How should we convince people that they want to use a currency before it exists enough to get them to participate in the decision making process? You, I and many others who have not been involved in the (over 1 year long) development process for the concept and code missed our opportunity to set the rules for this coin, asking for them to change their principles now and alter their path is a bit of an insult.

"You might run with the money, and we don't trust you, but we want you to slavishly obey our demands for your own creation" is not exactly the most persuasive of arguments.

[Bicknellski]

How do you propose making decisions with this fractious bunch without some sort of executive body? This body is not acting like a cohesive community, it's more like a troll zoo. I understand in some cultures the drive to consensus is important enough it subsume individual desires, but that is not universally true, especially here.

The other difficulty is that most of the potential user base for this coin does not know or care it exists. How should we convince people that they want to use a currency before it exists enough to get them to participate in the decision making process? You, I and many others who have not been involved in the (over 1 year long) development process for the concept and code missed our opportunity to set the rules for this coin, asking for them to change their principles now and alter their path is a bit of an insult.

"You might run with the money, and we don't trust you, but we want you to slavishly obey our demands for your own creation" is not exactly the most persuasive of arguments.

Participatory Politics and a number of proposals I have made are worthy of a look on the issue in the FFoundation threads. Unfortunately the devs didn't really work out much of anything for this foundation prelaunch and in some ways that is ideal if you ask me that way we can develop hopefully and as quickly as possible a system that allows for fractious and antagonistic stakeholders to be involved as much as they want to be and that is democratic at it's core.  There is always apathy in any given system particularly political. Look at US elections nearly 50% didn't vote who were eligible to do so. If people MINE and don't want to get involved then they can't really bitch about it then can they? But there are some ideas already posted to help this at least get started towards something that is not a USURY or CLEPTOCRATIC grab for special interests.

I am part of the community I hold freicoin and I have mined some freicoin woot 3 total. So I have a stake however small in seeing Freicoin move forward. The RULES for the coin are in place because they are trying an EXPERIMENT to tweak and change the nature of cryptocurrency, so if you don't want to participate, as many have said before, you can decide not to mine, trade or even talk about it. I suspect that you are here as others is because you have a vested interest maybe infinitely small like mine but still a stake in the FRC. Why do you care?

Well let's talk about that while we are setting up the FFoundation. Unfortunately those same individual desires are often used to segregate and marginalize those who didn't adopt early or didn't get in with the technocrats from the start or say have a huge mining rig at the start either so simply give up right? Just don't try? The idea is not to say oh let's just screw it we can't change human nature... the idea here is what if you can build a system that is truly democratic. You are falling into the same trap... can't do it... it is impossible... human nature etc etc etc. The problem is there is evidence that this form of currency has worked before and even though this Foundation Trust has not been handled ideally there is hope that it can potentially generate a real change. Do you want to participate or not? Simple as that right? I don't understand why so many people see only the potential downside when you have a great opportunity to be involved in something that could be different. I could be wrong, they could pocket all the freicoin and screw us all over but as long as I can have a seat at the table to talk about it then I will. Why don't you join us?

Scrybe most if not all of this is not replying directly to you but rather I was trying to pile on and agree with how you see this clowns continually rundown the coin without very much in the way of constructive critiques. I suggest a real look at the economics of the REAL world and how marginalized most of the human race is today would be a great starting point for a lot of these people who sit comfortably in their rooms staring at a computer screen sheltered from any number of horrors that human beings face daily. There is something a little more tangible in making an effort with this currency. It has real potential to move cryptocurrency further. The devs of the coin I get the sense understand this... if they screw this up they would be world premiere douchebags to waste the potential of this coin. Time will indeed tell but so will our involvement.

If you build it... they will come... is that too optimistic an approach for people to get behind FRC? Not sure but the FFoundation could be instrumental in keeping this coin from the ash heap. Maybe putting ideas to forum in the foundation thread would be more productive. I have already had to copy and paste some of you comments there Scrybe.

[jtimon]

After this thread they started up their own forum:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89843.0

Actually the forum started long before, after some bitcoiners agreed that demurrage could be a good thing on this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=36450.msg472029#msg472029

[scrybe]

After this thread they started up their own forum:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89843.0

Actually the forum started long before, after some bitcoiners agreed that demurrage could be a good thing on this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=36450.msg472029#msg472029

I stand corrected, maybe I should have said "quit trying to fight the trolls and used their own site almost exclusively."

[jtimon]

I stand corrected, maybe I should have said "quit trying to fight the trolls and used their own site almost exclusively."

I kept talking on the deflation thread and mentioned freicoin from time to time on other threads when it was relevant. But, yes, this subforum was specially exhausting, even for me: someone used to disagree with the majority even in eccentric circles.

You're right overall, just wanted to make that little clarification.