[POLL] Should we recommend that noobs use an alternative client?

[novusordo]

Looking forward to the results of this poll. Should be interesting.

Please explain your reasoning below.

[1715533596]

1715533596

[1715533596]

1715533596

[1715533596]

1715533596

[bittenbob]

I'm surprised you have two of the newer eWallet services posted but not the long standing WalletBit. We have been safely and securely processing Bitcoin transactions since July 2011. This makes us the longest operating Bitcoin eWallet service today and perhaps because there have been no major incidents it has largely gone below the public radar. The only major incident was the DDOS for ransom attack which WalletBit was able to overcome much sooner than any other target. It was in part our solution that lead to the attacks subsiding. When it comes to keeping eWallet funds safe no one can compare with WalletBit's track record.

As the marketing director and a Bitcoin enthusiast I will personally help new users through our support platform understand more about Bitcoin. Because we are an eWallet service there is no waiting for the block chain to sync and we have easy cell phone integration with WalletBit Mobile. We have added to weusecoins video to our homepage to assist in new users along with our new promotional video. What more could new Bitcoin users want in an eWallet service?

[21after2]

BitCoin-QT was a little intimidating for me when I first started using BitCoin (though I knew very little about the currency at the time). MultiBit made the learning process much smoother for me, especially since I didn't have to wait 24 hours for it to sync, lol. I would personally recommend MultiBit for new users, but I do want to see BitCoin-QT gain more user-friendly features (and for MultiBit to gain encryption as a feature).

[flix]

Definitely hook noobs via the path of least resistance. If they are only going to have < 1 BTC to play around with they don't need to know too much. Coinbase, blockchain... hell even https://bitcoin-app.com/ can be good sandbox for them to learn!

Once they see the benefits and ease of use there's plenty of time to teach them more advanced stuff.

Telling them to install the client and wait to download all the blocks is a huge turn-off for many...

[Stephen Gornick]

hell even https://bitcoin-app.com/

Ohh .. bad timing.

Closing on 4th of Feb 2013! Withdraw all your coins!

- https://bitcoin-app.com   <--  Facebook wallet.

[Nagato]

I think at the very least they should be told of the different security/trust implications of the various options.

Bitcoin-QT
Trustless transaction verification.
You can fully verify that a transaction is valid.
6 confirmations guarantee funds are yours.

SPV Clients
You always have to assume that your server/peers are honest.
A malicious or compromised server can feed you transactions which are invalid on the blockchain.

E-Wallets
For hosted wallets, you have to assume the website operator wont take off with your bitcoins.
You have to trust all information from your balance, received transactions, sent transactions with the e-wallet provider.
Even for hybrid wallets like blockchain.info, you never know when the server starts serving you pages which capture your secret key
or will upload your decrypted wallet back to the server unless you check the source EVERY SINGLE time you use the site.

Obviously if you are running a business or online store, it is highly reccommended to use a full client.
If you cant do that, then atleast check multiple sources(blockchain.info/blockexplorer/SPV Client) to confirm payments made to you.

E-Wallets/SPV clients are great for watching addresses and a small hot wallet.

[Jan]

If they have an Android device they should obviously use BitcoinSpinner
 

[novusordo]

I'm surprised you have two of the newer eWallet services posted but not the long standing WalletBit.

That option should be interpreted as "web wallets in general." I was just offering those two as examples.

[justusranvier]

What more could new Bitcoin users want in an eWallet service?

I didn't see an Android app for your web wallet. Is it possible to read QR codes through a mobile web app?

[mjc]

<Shameful self promotion>

Just point them to my book : Bitcoin Step by Step : http:://www.amazon.com/Bitcoin-Step-by-ebook/dp/B00A1CUQQU/

Download Kindle reader for any OS: http:://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=1000493771

I walk users through setting up and securing Bitcoin-qt, along with how to use it.  I also cover web base wallets and configuring MFA.  I cover a number of topics that noob will need.
I've sold or given away just over 300 copies over the past few months. 

</Shameful self promotion>

That's just one idea.  When I joined Bitcoin, I found that there was a lot of information out there, almost too much to know where to start.  This is why I thought a short concise book that walked users through what they needed to know and pointed them to where they should look for more information would be useful.

[mccorvic]

No, we should educate new users about the benefits and drawbacks of each client and let them choose.

This option would be optimal.

But we all know some people who don't want to hear about options because they don't have time, don't care, whatever. In THAT event I'd probably recommend the official client for people I inherently know that they know what they're doing, or blockchain.info for people who I think would prefer that sort of thing (with appropriate warnings of course).

[DannyHamilton]

No, we should educate new users about the benefits and drawbacks of each client and let them choose.

This.

[CurbsideProphet]

No, we should educate new users about the benefits and drawbacks of each client and let them choose.

I agree that all disclaimers should be made, however, I don't see a problem with recommending an alternative client.  I recently downloaded the entire block chain and it was incredibly slow to put it mildly.  I think this will be a huge turnoff for those new to Bitcoin and some of the alternate clients can have alleviate that issue.

[SgtSpike]

I agree that all disclaimers should be made, however, I don't see a problem with recommending an alternative client.  I recently downloaded the entire block chain and it was incredibly slow to put it mildly.  I think this will be a huge turnoff for those new to Bitcoin and some of the alternate clients can have alleviate that issue.

Explain to me why it is a turnoff? I think people like you just too lazy to read and learn about the benefit of a full node.

Newbies don't care about running a full node.  They want a piece of software that allows them to send and receive Bitcoins - anything beyond that is something they won't care about or want, especially if it adds additional inconvenience.  If it takes them 3 days before they can even use it, OF COURSE it'll be a huge turnoff for them!  Anyone who can't see this is simply in denial about it.

People are turned away from QT every day because of the lengthy syncing process.  We desperately need a newbie-friendly solution.  I've been pointing people to blockchain.info, but it's not perfect.  The perfect solution would be a downloadable client with blockchain.info speed and ease of use.

[DannyHamilton]

. . . They want a piece of software that allows them to send and receive Bitcoins . . .

No I think the noobies that have a hard time with waiting, are in denial that they are serious about bitcoin.

Who said anything about being "serious about bitcoin?"  SgtSpike seems to be talking about people who just heard about bitcoin, and want to try it out.  They have no idea if they want to be "serious" about it yet, they don't know much about it and have very little exposure to it.  At best they want to purchase something and the seller/merchant has indicated that they are willing to (or prefer to) accept bitcoin for payment.

If the "new user" can't quickly and easily accomplish the the transaction to gain exposure to the process, they'll never get to the point of learning enough about it to see the significant benefits it offers and become "serious" about it.

[mjc]

I think the reality is that for Bitcoin to take off it has to be something that a user doesn't have to be serious about.  They simply use the tools.  There should not have to be a whole lot of education about the topic.  Early adopters are the ones that are more willing to dig in and figure things out.  That's where we are now.  To move it forward, it should be simple and quick.

[ThomasV]

The perfect solution would be a downloadable client with blockchain.info speed and ease of use.

that's the definition of Electrum 

[SgtSpike]

. . . They want a piece of software that allows them to send and receive Bitcoins . . .

No I think the noobies that have a hard time with waiting, are in denial that they are serious about bitcoin.

Who said anything about being "serious about bitcoin?"  SgtSpike seems to be talking about people who just heard about bitcoin, and want to try it out.  They have no idea if they want to be "serious" about it yet, they don't know much about it and have very little exposure to it.  At best they want to purchase something and the seller/merchant has indicated that they are willing to (or prefer to) accept bitcoin for payment.

If the "new user" can't quickly and easily accomplish the the transaction to gain exposure to the process, they'll never get to the point of learning enough about it to see the significant benefits it offers and become "serious" about it.

Thank you, yes, this is exactly what I mean.

When I first got into Bitcoin, I wasn't at all serious about it.  I was trying out this new mining thing that had the potential to make me money, and it was intimidating (setting up QT and mining).  I can only imagine what a non-technically minded person might be thinking as they go through the cumbersome process of attempting to run QT, especially now that it takes days instead of hours to download and sync.

@gweedo, 99% of newbies aren't serious about Bitcoin.  Why do you insist that they should be pushed away?

The perfect solution would be a downloadable client with blockchain.info speed and ease of use.

that's the definition of Electrum 

I love the idea of Electrum, but the install process is a pain on Windows.  As far as I can tell, you need the Python package installed, then have to run some command from the command line to start it?  Regardless, I couldn't get past an error about a missing .dll (which it was looking for in the install directory??) when I last tried installing it.  It wasn't fun or easy, especially not for a newbie!  Once you have it to a point where it is a standalone install (doesn't require anything but Windows itself), then I think you'll have made significant progress!

[flatfly]

. . . They want a piece of software that allows them to send and receive Bitcoins . . .

No I think the noobies that have a hard time with waiting, are in denial that they are serious about bitcoin.

Who said anything about being "serious about bitcoin?"  SgtSpike seems to be talking about people who just heard about bitcoin, and want to try it out.  They have no idea if they want to be "serious" about it yet, they don't know much about it and have very little exposure to it.  At best they want to purchase something and the seller/merchant has indicated that they are willing to (or prefer to) accept bitcoin for payment.

If the "new user" can't quickly and easily accomplish the the transaction to gain exposure to the process, they'll never get to the point of learning enough about it to see the significant benefits it offers and become "serious" about it.

Thank you, yes, this is exactly what I mean.

When I first got into Bitcoin, I wasn't at all serious about it.  I was trying out this new mining thing that had the potential to make me money, and it was intimidating (setting up QT and mining).  I can only imagine what a non-technically minded person might be thinking as they go through the cumbersome process of attempting to run QT, especially now that it takes days instead of hours to download and sync.

@gweedo, 99% of newbies aren't serious about Bitcoin.  Why do you insist that they should be pushed away?

The perfect solution would be a downloadable client with blockchain.info speed and ease of use.

that's the definition of Electrum 

I love the idea of Electrum, but the install process is a pain on Windows.  As far as I can tell, you need the Python package installed, then have to run some command from the command line to start it?  Regardless, I couldn't get past an error about a missing .dll (which it was looking for in the install directory??) when I last tried installing it.  It wasn't fun or easy, especially not for a newbie!  Once you have it to a point where it is a standalone install (doesn't require anything but Windows itself), then I think you'll have made significant progress!

Hmmm... must be a while since you last tried it! Currently, there are no pre-requisites for Python runtimes or special command-line stuff - both Windows builds (whether slush's or mine) are 100% self-contained and run out of the box.  Perhaps time to give it another try?

[K1773R]

u forgot Armory... sad