The real disastor that could happen (forking Bitcoin)...

[CIYAM]

Yup, that's why there is a 75% threshold so your scenario won't happen. 75% is more than enough. It means on the worst case, 75% agreed to leave at most 25% behind. I doubt 25% will stick with the old chain anyway.

I guess you didn't closely follow about what happened with NotXT.

I can guarantee you that there will be fake BitcoinClassic nodes created so that it seems that 75% is achieved and then after one day - that 75% will disappear (and this is why all exchanges will simply stop exchanging as they know that this will happen).

Irrelevant. Miners won't mine on faked nodes and mine will be very real. That's all I care.

An idiotic statement.

If the exchanges shut down then miners will stop mining.

[blunderer]

Explain "fiat loss" How would exchanges holding BTC be any different than you holding BTC?

Apparently you are already "suing me" (from another topic) so can you just keep out of this topic?

(and good luck with your legal suite)

How about you answer my question, extortionist

[knight22]

Yup, that's why there is a 75% threshold so your scenario won't happen. 75% is more than enough. It means on the worst case, 75% agreed to leave at most 25% behind. I doubt 25% will stick with the old chain anyway.

I guess you didn't closely follow about what happened with NotXT.

I can guarantee you that there will be fake BitcoinClassic nodes created so that it seems that 75% is achieved and then after one day - that 75% will disappear (and this is why all exchanges will simply stop exchanging as they know that this will happen).

Irrelevant. Miners won't mine on faked nodes and mine will be very real. That's all I care.

An idiotic statement.

If the exchanges shut down then miners will stop mining.

Exchanges won't shut down. There is no reason for it.

[Lauda]

Then you don't understand how the actual fiat system works.

btw 25% =/= almost 1/3. It equals 1/4.

There was a mistake in my original statement and miscalculation. 25% of the initial network is more than 30% of the forked network. You're the one who doesn't understand the current system that we're living in. Stop trying to make Bitcoin a democracy. It should be trustless, not a battle between chains.

[keepdoing]

If we actually end up with a forked blockchain then we will have "two Bitcoins" (or more depending upon the software being used).

What will this do?

For a start I predict it will cause all exchanges to "stop trading" (as they will not want to risk fiat losses in case they have ended up on the wrong fork).

Once the exchanges have stopped then the miners can no longer sell their BTC block rewards so that means within a very short time there will be a serious problem in the mining area.

The amount of electricity that miners are paying for is so large that they will most likely shut down their hashing operations if the exchanges have closed down which will reduce the difficulty (in two weeks).

After two weeks if the problem hasn't been worked out then everyone is basically going to walk away and the Bitcoin experiment will be declared a failure.

This is what we are facing (so you've got to wonder why Gavin wants to try and push for this).

He's right!  Absolutely right!  Except it will be temporary, and in the end him, and all the Core/blosckstream supporter losers will be permanently removed from any future sayso in the community, and their Core Chain will be left dead and writing on the sidelines.

And the reason this must happen.... is because our beloved Bitcoin was kidnapped and is being tortured and crippled and stuffed into a side-chain box under hte control of the evil Zurg!  And we must go rescue her!   

[blunderer]

Then you don't understand how the actual fiat system works.

btw 25% =/= almost 1/3. It equals 1/4.

There was a mistake in my original statement and miscalculation. 25% of the initial network is more than 30% of the forked network. You're the one who doesn't understand the current system that we're living in. Stop trying to make Bitcoin a democracy. It should be trustless, not a battle between chains.

Could you clarify what you mean by "it should be trustless"?
Is it currently trustless, or is there a possibility of malefactors? If it's currently trustless, no bad actor could subvert it because math. You seem to be suggesting it's not so?

[knight22]

Then you don't understand how the actual fiat system works.

btw 25% =/= almost 1/3. It equals 1/4.

There was a mistake in my original statement and miscalculation. 25% of the initial network is more than 30% of the forked network. You're the one who doesn't understand the current system that we're living in. Stop trying to make Bitcoin a democracy. It should be trustless, not a battle between chains.

Bitcoin is not a democracy, it’s a market driven system aligned with economic incentives. The actual economic incentive tells us to move to 2mb so that’s why businesses and miners are now pushing for it and why Classic have so much support.

[becoin]

Why on earth exchanges will stop trading? Most (if not all) of them support Classic btw.

Because they risk a "fiat loss" (i.e. "real money").

So if they have ended up on the wrong side of a fork they will actually go bankrupt.

I doubt any exchange is going to really want to "brave this" (so they will all just shutdown until a resolution happens).

Let's see if the exchanges are really going to publicly state that they will work on a fork (I very much doubt that any of them will do so).

Bitstamp and Coinbase already did...

They've lost a lot of market share during last year. Losers... All 'Classic' fork cheerleaders are losers!

[Denker]

i dont think there will be a hard fork too because there is no good alternative. you need more than 1-2 devs and a plan to make 2MB blocks - that is not enough.

Right.Bitcoin Classic is just having to known good developers. Without Gavin and Jeff I believe there would be no talk about Classic at all.
The main devs are all supporting core. And in my opinion is the path core is going absolute the right one.

[keepdoing]

Ugly UGLY Fork War coming.  Let all who are hoping for peace in this matter open their eyes.  Blockstream/Core Supporters are choosing the Scorched Earth path.  They will destroy it all if they can't have it. 

None of this will change the 75% "preactivation" level from being triggered.   But in a month or so afterwards when we approach actual "Activation" of the Fork..... everyone will need to be very patient, steady, prepared, educated.

[becoin]

Blockstream/Core Supporters are choosing the Scorched Earth path.  They will destroy it all if they can't have it. 

Really? Core stays the core all the time.
Scorched earth path fans first had XT. Now they have 'classic'. What is next?

[knight22]

Blockstream/Core Supporters are choosing the Scorched Earth path.  They will destroy it all if they can't have it. 

Really? Core stays the core all the time.
Scorched earth path fans first had XT. Now they have 'classic'. What is next?

XT had support of the industry but not miners. Now Classic have the support of both miners and the industry. What's next? Core being left out.

[Lauda]

Bitcoin is not a democracy, it’s a market driven system aligned with economic incentives. The actual economic incentive tells us to move to 2mb so that’s why businesses and miners are now pushing for it and why Classic have so much support.

The "economic incentive" tells you only what you want to hear. From a technical perspective 2 MB blocks make absolute no sense in comparison to Segwit.

Right.Bitcoin Classic is just having to known good developers. Without Gavin and Jeff I believe there would be no talk about Classic at all.

Gavin even said something about not wanting to maintain it (IIRC) and Jeff has a different agenda. He believes that we should do a hard fork so that we have experience with doing one and I agree. However, I don't agree with the current proposal at all.

The main devs are all supporting core. And in my opinion is the path core is going absolute the right one.

These developers are actually ones that have contributed with various improvements to the infrastructure. What have Classic "developers" created? Nothing.

XT had support of the industry but not miners. Now Classic have the support of both miners and the industry. What's next? Core being left out.

It has the same support as XT had from Slush. They said they would support it until they didn't. 

[becoin]

Blockstream/Core Supporters are choosing the Scorched Earth path.  They will destroy it all if they can't have it. 

Really? Core stays the core all the time.
Scorched earth path fans first had XT. Now they have 'classic'. What is next?

XT had support of the industry but not miners. Now Classic have the support of both miners and the industry. What's next? Core being left out.

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”

“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”  ~ Joseph Goebbels

“In the primitive simplicity of their minds, they will more easily fall victim to a large lie than a small lie, since they sometimes tell petty lies themselves, but would be ashamed to tell a lie that was too big. They would never consider telling a lie of such magnitude themselves, or knowing that it would require such impudence, they would not consider it possible for it to be told by others. Even after being enlightened and shown that the lie is a lie, they will continue to doubt and waver for a long time and will still believe there must be some truth behind it somewhere, and there must be some other explanation. For this reason, some part of the most bold and brazen lie is sure to stick. This is a fact that all the great liars and liars’ societies (meaning the Jewish press) in this world know only too well and use regularly.” ~ Adolph Hitler
Page 205 Mein Kampf

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” ~ Joseph Goebbels

[bargainbin]

^^

Thanks for making Mr. Godwin cry

[knight22]

XT had support of the industry but not miners. Now Classic have the support of both miners and the industry. What's next? Core being left out.

It has the same support as XT had from Slush. They said they would support it until they didn't. 

https://twitter.com/JihanWu/status/694080283407069184
https://twitter.com/slush_pool/status/694128642725679104

[Lauda]

https://twitter.com/JihanWu/status/694080283407069184
https://twitter.com/slush_pool/status/694128642725679104

Vocal support means nothing as previously said. Here's just an example of Classic supporters on twitter:

..Because a blocksize increase means faster and more frequent transactions and faster confirmations.

They have no idea what they're talking about.

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”

2 MB blocks are urgent, Segwit is complicated, Bitcoin will die without it. - Pretty simple lie.

[CuntChocula]

...

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”

2 MB blocks are urgent, Segwit is complicated, Bitcoin will die without it. - Pretty simple lie.

Getting pretty desperate compelling there. Add 2+2=4 to your lie list ploz.

[Jet Cash]

So if the chain does fork, how will we know it has happened, and how will we know who has "won".

[Holliday]

For a start I predict it will cause all exchanges to "stop trading" (as they will not want to risk fiat losses in case they have ended up on the wrong fork).

They are in it for profits so why wouldn't they just allow trading between the two different chains and make lots of fiat money in the process?

I guess the obvious answer to the above question is that most exchanges are inept.