Bitcoinocracy: If non-Core hard fork wins, major holders will sell BTC

[mrhelpful]

The only time I`d sell is if its rising.

If its going down, if anything because people are reacting to the forks will lead to a huge sell off - I`ll take the chance of buying a bunch while its going down.

Its very simple to understand for seeing it in my own eyes for the last 5years.

Youre also stating the VC`s who funding a bunch to support a community is asking to just bail out on their own millions of funding..

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[zby]

It looks like some holders already started.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Tell u what:

https://blockchain.info/address/12JKDhDJfux3VjpRbDYQj81JAZNEyn2nfq

5 BTC transaction made over 1 hour ago. Still ZERO confirmations (and I need to wait on 6).

...lets face it, we have all been through this sort of shit, many many times with Bitcoin......and unless something is done to change this, you would have to think that Bitcoin's days are indeed numbered.

With a USD value that fluctuates so wildy, this sort of delay in a digital transaction is un-fucking-tenable.


Would Bitcoin XT change this? If yes, then it needs to go ahead. If  not, then move over Bitcoin, hello (............) Ethereum?

Increase your fee. I didn't click on the link but are you still sending transactions using the 0.0001 fee?

If you want it to go through in a respectable time use a bigger fee tight ass

[gijoes]

It looks like some holders already started.

Actually, I see the opposite: so far, every dump attempt is bought out pretty quickly. I guess the possibility of hostile hard fork is assessed as very low by the whales ATM. So, they use the uncertainty of the small/retail traders to increase their long positions. The market pattern definitely looks like accumulation to me.

[rocks]

the non-core guy are only implementing somethign really needed not like xt that were adding unecessary crap

You need to learn more. Part of this "New Bitcoin" is democratic vote on any features and limitations of Bitcoin system. Thought New Bitcoin will have 21M coins hard cap? Think again. Their main developer said so much: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4326ya/jonathan_toomim_on_bitcoin_classic_everything_can/

The 21M limit is not fixed because Maxwell is protecting us from changing it, the 21M limit is fixed because the majority of users are incentivized to keep it.

It is the same with the blocksize limit, the majority are incentivized to increase the limit, so it will be increased.

Toomin is stating a basic truth of bitcoin, bitcoin is whatever its users want it to be. And the beautiful thing about bitcoin is no one can stop that

[Patel]

I doubt many, if any, of these people will actually dump their coins.  And, if they do, be prepared to catch the falling knife.

I'm pro core and classic, but for now I'm throwing my chips on classic.  I've fired up a Classic node and turned on all of my old mining HW to Slush to vote in favour of the HF.

If the HF destroys Bitcoin, then so be it.

Pretty reckless to risk your investment (and Bitcoin protocol) to fix the non-existent problem of full blocks.

[Cconvert2G36]

I doubt many, if any, of these people will actually dump their coins.  And, if they do, be prepared to catch the falling knife.

I'm pro core and classic, but for now I'm throwing my chips on classic.  I've fired up a Classic node and turned on all of my old mining HW to Slush to vote in favour of the HF.

If the HF destroys Bitcoin, then so be it.

Pretty reckless to risk your investment (and Bitcoin protocol) to fix the non-existent problem of full blocks.

Some would say allowing a company to capture the protocol, steer it to their will, while selling lackeys on the idea that it is all in the name of safety and decentralization... would be pretty reckless. I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

[gijoes]

Pretty reckless to risk your investment (and Bitcoin protocol) to fix the non-existent problem of full blocks.

Some would say allowing a company to capture the protocol, steer it to their will, while selling lackeys on the idea that it is all in the name of safety and decentralization... would be pretty reckless. I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

I find it ironic that you bigblockers keep mindlessly repeating these propaganda points... While it's pretty clear to everyone with even half a brain that such propaganda was produced and fed to you by corporations whose only interests is in centralizing Bitcoin. Like Coinbase and a bunch of other centralized services. Now, talk about attempt to capture Bitcoin and bend it to narrow corporate interests...

[Cconvert2G36]

Pretty reckless to risk your investment (and Bitcoin protocol) to fix the non-existent problem of full blocks.

Some would say allowing a company to capture the protocol, steer it to their will, while selling lackeys on the idea that it is all in the name of safety and decentralization... would be pretty reckless. I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

I find it ironic that you bigblockers keep mindlessly repeating these propaganda points... While it's pretty clear to everyone with even half a brain that such propaganda was produced and fed to you by corporations whose only interests is in centralizing Bitcoin. Like Coinbase and a bunch of other centralized services. Now, talk about attempt to capture Bitcoin and bend it to narrow corporate interests...

Narrow corporate interests...

Now, if Coinbase had 9 Core developers in its pocket, and was quickly moving to roll out 20 MB blocks, whether miners wanted it or not... I would expect some pushback. I think the debate is mostly over, we'll see how many Classic nodes spin up in the coming weeks, and how many miners mine signal blocks in the coming months.

If nothing else, it will be an emergency "escape from Blockstream" lever.

[Amph]

the non-core guy are only implementing somethign really needed not like xt that were adding unecessary crap

You need to learn more. Part of this "New Bitcoin" is democratic vote on any features and limitations of Bitcoin system. Thought New Bitcoin will have 21M coins hard cap? Think again. Their main developer said so much: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4326ya/jonathan_toomim_on_bitcoin_classic_everything_can/

if they are adding unecessary crap, then i'm with you, i'm only pro capacity increase and nothing else, unless it's necessary and needed for the benefit of bitcoin, like the malleability issue or other stuff like that

[g-unit]

There is no way the limit of 21 million coins will be changed. Very few if any would want that. Possibly this could happen 50 to 100 years from now when the inflation rate is basically 0, but I don't see it happening any time soon at all.

[Patel]

Some would say allowing a company to capture the protocol, steer it to their will, while selling lackeys on the idea that it is all in the name of safety and decentralization... would be pretty reckless. I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

Ah, captured by only having 1 blockstream employee have committ access to Core?

[DeathAngel]

It could be a possibility, I'm not sure if I trust all these devs who are trying to hard fork. Something seems a little off.

[n2004al]

Most upvoted statement on Bitcoinocracy right now:
"If non-Core hard fork wins, major holders will sell BTC, driving price into the ground"

http://bitcoinocracy.com/arguments/if-non-core-hard-fork-wins-major-holders-will-sell-btc-driving-price-into-the-ground

Seems very doubtful for me this poll. Even is created correctly and with full transparency. All the amount of bitcoin that "play" in this pool is about 28 thousand and all those who are ready to sell if the event mentioned in this pool is verified own less than 23 thousand bitcoins. I don't know when has began and I don't know will finish. I don't know even the spread of this site in order that understand well if is big and can be ignored as pool or is an unknown one and have not the power to have all the needed data to be considered as credible. But for sure know that not less than 23 thousand but even ten times more bitcoins be sold cannot cause some important thing to the price of bitcoin. Are 15 millions are the bitcoins in circulation. So the previous amounts are nothing compared to this amount. For sure will be a dump (maybe even big) of the price but in the same time for sure will be the increase of it at the normal value had before this possible dump.

[spazzdla]

I could see mass fleeing to another coin.

[gijoes]

...But for sure know that not less than 23 thousand but even ten times more bitcoins be sold cannot cause some important thing to the price of bitcoin. Are 15 millions are the bitcoins in circulation. So the previous amounts are nothing compared to this amount. For sure will be a dump (maybe even big) of the price but in the same time for sure will be the increase of it at the normal value had before this possible dump.

I think you just don't get it. Holders of 23K bitcoins are by no means THE ONLY ONES ready to sell in case of hostile takeover hard fork. These are only the people who are pissed off enough to vent their frustration publicly. Which is far from being trivial. To do this, they had to understand the complicated procedure of Bitcoinocracy voting, get their bitcoins out of cold storage and then use the keys to sign the appropriate message. No doubt, there are MANY more people who feel the same but just are not so adamant or technically skilled to complete this procedure.

However, it requires no such skill to move your BTC to exchanges and sell them. Given that BTCUSD trade volume is in tens of thousands of BTC daily, even disbalance of tens of thousands BTC added to the sell side may crash the price quite significantly.

[n2004al]

...But for sure know that not less than 23 thousand but even ten times more bitcoins be sold cannot cause some important thing to the price of bitcoin. Are 15 millions are the bitcoins in circulation. So the previous amounts are nothing compared to this amount. For sure will be a dump (maybe even big) of the price but in the same time for sure will be the increase of it at the normal value had before this possible dump.

I think you just don't get it. Holders of 23K bitcoins are by no means THE ONLY ONES ready to sell in case of hostile takeover hard fork. These are only the people who are pissed off enough to vent their frustration publicly. Which is far from being trivial. To do this, they had to understand the complicated procedure of Bitcoinocracy voting, get their bitcoins out of cold storage and then use the keys to sign the appropriate message. No doubt, there are MANY more people who feel the same but just are not so adamant or technically skilled to complete this procedure.

However, it requires no such skill to move your BTC to exchanges and sell them. Given that BTCUSD trade volume is in tens of thousands of BTC daily, even disbalance of tens of thousands BTC added to the sell side may crash the price quite significantly.

I think that if you are sure that "I just don't get it" I am sure that you not only don't get nothing (much more than me) but even that don't understand what I have write. And that the only thing that you can get and sold as true about everything is only that is true only in your head.

1. Why told you that are more than them signed that pool the people who want to sell in this case? And even with big letters. Have you counted all them in the dream wondered a night ago? Or have hear the discussion had with her girlfriend your best friend and he is well informed about this "fact"?

2. You tell: "No doubt, there are MANY more people who feel the same but just are not so adamant or technically skilled to complete this procedure." From what kind of facts become this your full, unassailable, arrogant sureness, explained with big letters (because I am not capable to understand it with little letters)? Have you again "seen" those in the above dream or on another made one night ago?

3. You must understand that I get only the facts and nothing else. And I speak or write only based on those and not using your above sources. I get that when the number of the people who will want to sell their bitcoins will arrive at that amount get by you in your dreams I will make another post using the words that I will want to write after the get of THE FACTS I WILL HAVE IN FRONT OF MY EYES.

4. Why have quoted only part of my post and not all? Maybe because have not get all that was write there. Read it again and again (but not less that 1 thousand times because I get that if you will read it less, you again will not be able to get the everything needed to make a normal comment) and will get some things that make without sense some of your "gets" of my post commented in your post.

[gijoes]

I think that if you are sure that "I just don't get it" I am sure that you not only don't get nothing (much more than me) but even that don't understand what I have write. And that the only thing that you can get and sold as true about everything is only that is true only in your head.

1. Why told you that are more than them signed that pool the people who want to sell in this case? And even with big letters. Have you counted all them in the dream wondered a night ago? Or have hear the discussion had with her girlfriend your best friend and he is well informed about this "fact"?

2. You tell: "No doubt, there are MANY more people who feel the same but just are not so adamant or technically skilled to complete this procedure." From what kind of facts become this your full, unassailable, arrogant sureness, explained with big letters (because I am not capable to understand it with little letters)? Have you again "seen" those in the above dream or on another made one night ago?

3. You must understand that I get only the facts and nothing else. And I speak or write only based on those and not using your above sources. I get that when the number of the people who will want to sell their bitcoins will arrive at that amount get by you in your dreams I will make another post using the words that I will want to write after the get of THE FACTS I WILL HAVE IN FRONT OF MY EYES.

4. Why have quoted only part of my post and not all? Maybe because have not get all that was write there. Read it again and again (but not less that 1 thousand times because I get that if you will read it less, you again will not be able to get the everything needed to make a normal comment) and will get some things that make without sense some of your "gets" of my post commented in your post.

Dude. I would like to respond to your (no doubt, well thought through) arguments. I really would. There is just one tiny little problem - I don't speak Gibberish... So, unless someone translates your post into normal language, we're out of luck here.

[n2004al]

I think that if you are sure that "I just don't get it" I am sure that you not only don't get nothing (much more than me) but even that don't understand what I have write. And that the only thing that you can get and sold as true about everything is only that is true only in your head.

1. Why told you that are more than them signed that pool the people who want to sell in this case? And even with big letters. Have you counted all them in the dream wondered a night ago? Or have hear the discussion had with her girlfriend your best friend and he is well informed about this "fact"?

2. You tell: "No doubt, there are MANY more people who feel the same but just are not so adamant or technically skilled to complete this procedure." From what kind of facts become this your full, unassailable, arrogant sureness, explained with big letters (because I am not capable to understand it with little letters)? Have you again "seen" those in the above dream or on another made one night ago?

3. You must understand that I get only the facts and nothing else. And I speak or write only based on those and not using your above sources. I get that when the number of the people who will want to sell their bitcoins will arrive at that amount get by you in your dreams I will make another post using the words that I will want to write after the get of THE FACTS I WILL HAVE IN FRONT OF MY EYES.

4. Why have quoted only part of my post and not all? Maybe because have not get all that was write there. Read it again and again (but not less that 1 thousand times because I get that if you will read it less, you again will not be able to get the everything needed to make a normal comment) and will get some things that make without sense some of your "gets" of my post commented in your post.

Dude. I would like to respond to your (no doubt, well thought through) arguments. I really would. There is just one tiny little problem - I don't speak Gibberish... So, unless someone translates your post into normal language, we're out of luck here.

Ha, Ha, The classical and not the first Big Professor who make the figure of the idiot (I cannot make the bad figure using this word because the poster will not understand it grace of my used Gibberish language not known by him) in this forum choosing this "extremely intelligent" way to go away from the essence and to "evaluate" the language. Giving even his verdict about my luck here.

Behh, as about for the last his decision about my luck here for sure I will remain about one month without sleep. Time in which probably the non-core hard fork will wins and all the major bitcoiners of this world will sell their bitcoins. Which will be bought by them who own 1-2 bitcoin. Anyhow the sell will happen. Is told by the Big Connoisseur and this will (may) cause the crash of the price of bitcoin according to his previous post. Make me laugh more the "don't get" of him of the Giberish language used by me. Problem that impede him to answer to my post.

But wait a minute.       

The Big professor tell: "I would like to respond to your (no doubt, well thought through) arguments. I really would."

Then continue: There is just one tiny little problem - I don't speak Gibberish.

My little daughter, who very often stay close to me when I passe the time reading and making various posts in Gibberish here at bitcointalk (and who speak fluently Gibberish and English) ask to me:

I read this post and don't understand how is possible that the poster of this post don't understand Gibberish but know that in your post (made in Gibberish according to him) there are no doubt, well thought through arguments.

The only answer that I gave to my daughter was: I don't know this my dear, I am out of look here. Maybe can be explained in the next reply by the not connoisseur of Gibberish language. Maybe him, to achieve this mission impossible (according to him), have used the same alien technological strategy used when have founded FOR SURE that all the major bitcoiners of the world will sell all their bitcoins (and my interpretation is that can be bought by those who own 1-2 bitcoin) if non-core hard fork wins.

I am sure that using the same above alien technology the Big Professor will understand the needed important things from my above Gibberish (the needed enough things) and will give his solid, full of language arguments, indisputable, surprising and first of all idiot answer. Which will be much more "geted" than the previous one.

Go ahead with your pearls of the nest time Big Professor. I am ready for the next reply to you. I am sure that you will do some other idiocy who will make me laugh even more than this time.

And the last thing. It is better to know English and Gibberish languages like me (who understand perfectly your posts and your "intellectual" level from those) than only the English one (like you) and play the figure of the idiot hoping to skip with this role your ignorance and the inability to be strong man and to accept your written bullshits when are argued to be so (as you told in your post).

[European Central Bank]

I dig your passion but you could do with laying off the google translate a little bit. It's kinda hard to read sometimes.