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Author Topic: Technological Wizards of the Banking Industry  (Read 2844 times)
Minecache
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February 02, 2016, 10:18:22 PM
 #21

What happened to all the so called technological wizards who work in the banking industry? The financial sector often boasts that it only employs the best of the best, so that said, why didn't one person within that sector design, develop and conceive an electronic cash or distributed ledger system? What have all these technological wizards been doing within the banking industry all these years?

Why would a bank want a distributed ledger system when they can just have their own ledger?

With their own ledger system they can:

- make changes immediately
- rollback any fraud
- not have to deal with others when upgrading or running the system

There is zero reason for any banking system to have a distributed ledger. The fully electronic cash and computerized banking system in the U.S. works fine as it is.

All my recurring bills are paid automatically and electronically and 99% are paid without any additional fees. The only one I have a fee for is my pool guy who doesn't have a computer so my bank mails him a physical check once a month at the additional service cost of $1.

All my daily purchases are done via credit card. I get (about 3%) cash back on my purchases and the merchant pays the fees. My balance is paid in full each month, with no fee, from my checking account.


Why? So they could reduce their transaction costs and time. How long does it still take a cheque to clear? If not for crypto currency then they'd still be sitting on their wizard sleeved hands.

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Minecache
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February 02, 2016, 10:19:17 PM
 #22

So the bankers have literally just been designing and developing ever more inventive ways of milking us all.

This is nothing new I would say.
Have the banks ever been good to us? Not in my country!
In my opinion it is time to kick some bankster's butt!
I hear you.

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bargainbin
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February 02, 2016, 10:38:30 PM
 #23

...
Why? So they could reduce their transaction costs and time.

Banking transactions take roughly (ping time) + (time to update a database) = less than a second. When I buy shit with a CC, it takes me anywhere from 3 to 20 seconds before I leave the checkout.
Bitcoin?

The cost of a fiat transaction is a few pennies.
Bitcoin? Currently $373 * 25BTC / 2.7tps * (600sec per block) = ~$5.75 + tx fee, per fucking transaction. You don't pay it because it's currently subsidized by Bitcoin base money inflation, i.e. printing 25 bitcoins out of thin air every 10 minutes.
So now you know.
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February 02, 2016, 10:42:26 PM
 #24

Why? So they could reduce their transaction costs and time. How long does it still take a cheque to clear? If not for crypto currency then they'd still be sitting on their wizard sleeved hands.

Reduce transaction costs? I bought some food today and paid with a $20 bill.

What was my transaction cost? How long did it take the transaction to confirm? How many parties were involved in confirming the transaction? Did I need to be connected to the Internet to do it?

Checks can clear absolutely instantly at banks. There is no need for blocks to be solved, confirmations from third parties or anything else. The reason they take some time to clear is not because of some wizard level problem. It is because a check is a piece of paper someone wrote some amount on.

The check writer may not have the money or the check may be forged, that's why it takes a while to clear. Why do people use checks? Because they are really easy to use, if you have a guy working on your plumbing, you can write him a check when he is done. The plumber doesn't need any kind of computer to accept the check and can just put it in his pocket. No merchant processors, no need to connect to the Internet, no bitcoin addresses, no confirmations.

With a U.S. bank, you have a whole host of options when you want to pay someone:

- paper check
- paper cashiers check from the bank account (funds are guaranteed)
- electronic transfer (including via email address or mobile phone number)
- recurring automatic electronic transfers
- wire transfer
- debit card (most have the money in the account, receiver needs merchant account)
- credit card (borrowed money, receiver needs merchant account)

Those are the most common. Banks have zero use for crypto currency, things work great as it is.
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February 02, 2016, 10:46:14 PM
 #25

Negative interest rates for all of you greedy people trying to make a savings!

Is this not just the case with any business that has a monoply on things?
Could argue google and apple do not follow this but they either buy a idea or kill the idea mostly before it can grow.
So expecting a bank to do anything but screw us would be like dancing on a busy highway and not expecting to be hit by a car.
Google car would dodge maybe,might go see what the stats say on that.

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February 02, 2016, 10:54:51 PM
 #26

Negative interest rates for all of you greedy people trying to make a savings!

What's the interest rate you get on your bitcoin deposits?
bargainbin
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February 02, 2016, 10:56:05 PM
 #27

Negative interest rates for all of you greedy people trying to make a savings!

Is this not just the case with any business that has a monoply on things?
Could argue google and apple do not follow this but they either buy a idea or kill the idea mostly before it can grow.
So expecting a bank to do anything but screw us would be like dancing on a busy highway and not expecting to be hit by a car.
Google car would dodge maybe,might go see what the stats say on that.

Ever wonder why children on My Little Pony forums manage to form coherent sentences, and even spell and punctuate those correctly? And why here, on bitcointalk, that sort of thing hardly ever happens?

Yeah, me neither.
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February 02, 2016, 10:59:32 PM
 #28

Negative interest rates for all of you greedy people trying to make a savings!

What's the interest rate you get on your bitcoin deposits?

Context.

If you had a point to follow this,then by all means let me know.

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Zeke2345
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February 02, 2016, 11:02:14 PM
 #29

Negative interest rates for all of you greedy people trying to make a savings!

Is this not just the case with any business that has a monoply on things?
Could argue google and apple do not follow this but they either buy a idea or kill the idea mostly before it can grow.
So expecting a bank to do anything but screw us would be like dancing on a busy highway and not expecting to be hit by a car.
Google car would dodge maybe,might go see what the stats say on that.

Ever wonder why children on My Little Pony forums manage to form coherent sentences, and even spell and punctuate those correctly? And why here, on bitcointalk, that sort of thing hardly ever happens?

Yeah, me neither.


Those people are called "Bronies" I believe. Friends mom is addicted to a website set up in a similar fashion that is for 7-15 year olds.
Mind you she has some life issues that make her revert back to a time that was not so pleasant for her but at the same time that might be what you are looking at there.

My spelling sucks and I do plan to work on that,if you where poking the bear.

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bargainbin
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February 02, 2016, 11:04:09 PM
 #30

Negative interest rates for all of you greedy people trying to make a savings!

What's the interest rate you get on your bitcoin deposits?

Context.

If you had a point to follow this,then by all means let me know.

My bank doesn't charge me negative interest rates, actually pays me interest, I get *paid* (via discounts) for using my CC, which, in turn, lends me money, for free, for a month.
Bitcoin?

Re. "bronies":
*bronnies
 Not singling you out, you really blend on bitcointalk.
Zeke2345
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February 02, 2016, 11:09:39 PM
 #31

Negative interest rates for all of you greedy people trying to make a savings!

What's the interest rate you get on your bitcoin deposits?

Context.

If you had a point to follow this,then by all means let me know.

My bank doesn't charge me negative interest rates, actually pays me interest, I get *paid* (via discounts) for using my CC, which, in turn, lends me money, for free, for a month.
Bitcoin?

Negative interest rates are being set up around the world or being added as a fail safe if the markets go haywire.
More countries are moving towards this or at least adding it to the writing.
So in context of banking,this is what I am referring to and not making a comparison to bitcoin. Bitcoin
not having a negative interest is just another bonus down the road.

If you are Canadian they just passed the negative interest rate as potential feature if the markets dictate it is needed.
Forget which country just went into negative interest rates to potentially spur the ecomomy from saving and spending more to push the economy forward. Most likely come to me after posting and believe it was Japan,but could be wrong.

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bargainbin
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February 02, 2016, 11:14:33 PM
 #32

Negative interest rates for all of you greedy people trying to make a savings!

What's the interest rate you get on your bitcoin deposits?

Context.

If you had a point to follow this,then by all means let me know.

My bank doesn't charge me negative interest rates, actually pays me interest, I get *paid* (via discounts) for using my CC, which, in turn, lends me money, for free, for a month.
Bitcoin?

Negative interest rates are being set up around the world or being added as a fail safe if the markets go haywire.
More countries are moving towards this or at least adding it to the writing.
So in context of banking,this is what I am referring to and not making a comparison to bitcoin. Bitcoin
not having a negative interest is just another bonus down the road.

If you are Canadian they just passed the negative interest rate as potential feature if the markets dictate it is needed.
Forget which country just went into negative interest rates to potentially spur the ecomomy from saving and spending more to push the economy forward. Most likely come to me after posting and believe it was Japan,but could be wrong.

Your understanding of economics is actually *worse* than your grammar.
When 1BTC was worth $430 a month ago and is now worth $373, saying that Bitcoin has no negative interest rate is meaningless.
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February 02, 2016, 11:19:35 PM
 #33

Negative interest rates for all of you greedy people trying to make a savings!

What's the interest rate you get on your bitcoin deposits?

Context.

If you had a point to follow this,then by all means let me know.

My bank doesn't charge me negative interest rates, actually pays me interest, I get *paid* (via discounts) for using my CC, which, in turn, lends me money, for free, for a month.
Bitcoin?

Negative interest rates are being set up around the world or being added as a fail safe if the markets go haywire.
More countries are moving towards this or at least adding it to the writing.
So in context of banking,this is what I am referring to and not making a comparison to bitcoin. Bitcoin
not having a negative interest is just another bonus down the road.

If you are Canadian they just passed the negative interest rate as potential feature if the markets dictate it is needed.
Forget which country just went into negative interest rates to potentially spur the ecomomy from saving and spending more to push the economy forward. Most likely come to me after posting and believe it was Japan,but could be wrong.

Please understand that your understanding of economics is actually *worse* than your grammar.
When 1BTC was worth $430 a month ago and is now worth $373, saying that Bitcoin has no negative interest rate is meaningless.

Again you have gone off on a tangent to make a point. Negative interest rates are coming in the banking world. So if you talk about bitcoin you would also relate it to the future as well. Therefore you can not compare the two in the manner you are presenting. Besides it was not the point of my post.

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bargainbin
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February 02, 2016, 11:29:40 PM
 #34

Negative interest rates for all of you greedy people trying to make a savings!

What's the interest rate you get on your bitcoin deposits?

Context.

If you had a point to follow this,then by all means let me know.

My bank doesn't charge me negative interest rates, actually pays me interest, I get *paid* (via discounts) for using my CC, which, in turn, lends me money, for free, for a month.
Bitcoin?

Negative interest rates are being set up around the world or being added as a fail safe if the markets go haywire.
More countries are moving towards this or at least adding it to the writing.
So in context of banking,this is what I am referring to and not making a comparison to bitcoin. Bitcoin
not having a negative interest is just another bonus down the road.

If you are Canadian they just passed the negative interest rate as potential feature if the markets dictate it is needed.
Forget which country just went into negative interest rates to potentially spur the ecomomy from saving and spending more to push the economy forward. Most likely come to me after posting and believe it was Japan,but could be wrong.

Please understand that your understanding of economics is actually *worse* than your grammar.
When 1BTC was worth $430 a month ago and is now worth $373, saying that Bitcoin has no negative interest rate is meaningless.

Again you have gone off on a tangent to make a point. Negative interest rates are coming in the banking world. So if you talk about bitcoin you would also relate it to the future as well. Therefore you can not compare the two in the manner you are presenting. Besides it was not the point of my post.

Look, first stop getting your news from stormfront.org zerohedge, bitcointalk & the like. The only bank to adopt negative interest rate, AFAIK, is BoJ (minus 0.1 percent, lol), and this doesn't mean that non-business accounts will be affected.

But even if banks do adopt negative interest rates, why would I want to keep my money in BTC, which gets debased faster, and might not even be here a year from now?
You know what else doesn't have negative interest rates? BTCeanie BTCabies.
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February 02, 2016, 11:43:00 PM
 #35

Negative interest rates for all of you greedy people trying to make a savings!

What's the interest rate you get on your bitcoin deposits?

Context.

If you had a point to follow this,then by all means let me know.

My bank doesn't charge me negative interest rates, actually pays me interest, I get *paid* (via discounts) for using my CC, which, in turn, lends me money, for free, for a month.
Bitcoin?

Negative interest rates are being set up around the world or being added as a fail safe if the markets go haywire.
More countries are moving towards this or at least adding it to the writing.
So in context of banking,this is what I am referring to and not making a comparison to bitcoin. Bitcoin
not having a negative interest is just another bonus down the road.

If you are Canadian they just passed the negative interest rate as potential feature if the markets dictate it is needed.
Forget which country just went into negative interest rates to potentially spur the ecomomy from saving and spending more to push the economy forward. Most likely come to me after posting and believe it was Japan,but could be wrong.

Please understand that your understanding of economics is actually *worse* than your grammar.
When 1BTC was worth $430 a month ago and is now worth $373, saying that Bitcoin has no negative interest rate is meaningless.

Again you have gone off on a tangent to make a point. Negative interest rates are coming in the banking world. So if you talk about bitcoin you would also relate it to the future as well. Therefore you can not compare the two in the manner you are presenting. Besides it was not the point of my post.

Look, first stop getting your news from stormfront.org zerohedge, bitcointalk & the like. The only bank to adopt negative interest rates, AFAIK, is BoJ, and this doesn't mean that non-business accounts will be affected.

But even if banks do adopt negative interest rates, why would I want to keep my money in BTC, which gets debased faster, and might not even be here a year from now? You know what else doesn't have negative interest rates? BTCeanie BTCabies.

Will follow you down this rabbit hole even though I did not make the comparison. If banks push negative interest rates,which 9 countries so far have gone down the route and others are adding options into the rates,then potentially bitcoin would rally.
You could make a profit either way by speculating against my theory or following it. The pattern you are using would not come into play,as people would either ignore bitcoin all together or run to it. In a situation like this I do not see it going up and down in a state of mass confusion.
People would be pulling out of the banks and hitting the mattress or they would be looking for alternatives.

Missed the correct in my spelling of dudes that like ponies,thank you! Did not mean to step on what turns another persons crank. Thought you may not have known about them.

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February 02, 2016, 11:45:30 PM
 #36

I guess the guys are too busy designing robot traders. It's also assuredly much more lucrative. How much money can a bank make with a new electronic currency? A distributed, cloud-based ledger? That's less exciting than trading.
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February 03, 2016, 12:04:22 AM
 #37

...
Will follow you down this rabbit hole even though I did not make the comparison. If banks push negative interest rates,which 9 countries so far have gone down the route and others are adding options into the rates,then potentially bitcoin would rally.

Only one country is implementing negative interest rates,
"Japan’s new negative interest rate, minus 0.1 percent, will take effect on Feb. 16. It will be assessed only on balances that commercial banks deposit at the central bank in excess of regulatory minimums."
TL;DR: POINT ONE PERCENT. NOT ON YOUR CHECKING ACCOUNT.

Quote
You could make a profit either way by speculating against my theory or following it. The pattern you are using would not come into play,as people would either ignore bitcoin all together or run to it. In a situation like this I do not see it going up and down in a state of mass confusion.
People would be pulling out of the banks and hitting the mattress or they would be looking for alternatives.

People with money don't keep it in banks. They *invest it*, aka "put it to work for them." Think of your bank as your hot wallet -- bill-paying, walkin' 'round money, ATM access for folding money -- to tip/buy drugs with.

When shit gets hairy, rich people don't pull money out of banks & stick it in the first ponzi du jour because "ZOMG, .1% per annum!!!1!"
No. They'd rather drink from the dick of a goat.
Now you know.
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February 03, 2016, 12:34:15 AM
 #38

...
Why? So they could reduce their transaction costs and time.

Banking transactions take roughly (ping time) + (time to update a database) = less than a second. When I buy shit with a CC, it takes me anywhere from 3 to 20 seconds before I leave the checkout.
Bitcoin?

The cost of a fiat transaction is a few pennies.
Bitcoin? Currently $373 * 25BTC / 2.7tps * (600sec per block) = ~$5.75 + tx fee, per fucking transaction. You don't pay it because it's currently subsidized by Bitcoin base money inflation, i.e. printing 25 bitcoins out of thin air every 10 minutes.
So now you know.
I cashed a cheque last week. It took over 3 business days to clear. 

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Minecache
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February 03, 2016, 12:36:59 AM
 #39

Why? So they could reduce their transaction costs and time. How long does it still take a cheque to clear? If not for crypto currency then they'd still be sitting on their wizard sleeved hands.

Reduce transaction costs? I bought some food today and paid with a $20 bill.

What was my transaction cost? How long did it take the transaction to confirm? How many parties were involved in confirming the transaction? Did I need to be connected to the Internet to do it?

Checks can clear absolutely instantly at banks. There is no need for blocks to be solved, confirmations from third parties or anything else. The reason they take some time to clear is not because of some wizard level problem. It is because a check is a piece of paper someone wrote some amount on.

The check writer may not have the money or the check may be forged, that's why it takes a while to clear. Why do people use checks? Because they are really easy to use, if you have a guy working on your plumbing, you can write him a check when he is done. The plumber doesn't need any kind of computer to accept the check and can just put it in his pocket. No merchant processors, no need to connect to the Internet, no bitcoin addresses, no confirmations.

With a U.S. bank, you have a whole host of options when you want to pay someone:

- paper check
- paper cashiers check from the bank account (funds are guaranteed)
- electronic transfer (including via email address or mobile phone number)
- recurring automatic electronic transfers
- wire transfer
- debit card (most have the money in the account, receiver needs merchant account)
- credit card (borrowed money, receiver needs merchant account)

Those are the most common. Banks have zero use for crypto currency, things work great as it is.

Banking is not free. Your costs are being subsidised by other people's charges.

As stated above, I cashed a cheque last week. The monies didn't clear in my account for me to withdraw for 3 business days.

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February 03, 2016, 12:38:52 AM
 #40

Negative interest rates for all of you greedy people trying to make a savings!

Is this not just the case with any business that has a monoply on things?
Could argue google and apple do not follow this but they either buy a idea or kill the idea mostly before it can grow.
So expecting a bank to do anything but screw us would be like dancing on a busy highway and not expecting to be hit by a car.
Google car would dodge maybe,might go see what the stats say on that.

Ever wonder why children on My Little Pony forums manage to form coherent sentences, and even spell and punctuate those correctly? And why here, on bitcointalk, that sort of thing hardly ever happens?

Yeah, me neither.
Nope, I don't frequent MLP forums.

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