Europe wants end to anonymous Bitcoin transactions

[jethrorn99]

I'm in asia so I'm save right?

But there's a positive side of this, and that thing is that europe countries could know who used btc for buying illegal things.

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[Armando]

I'm in asia so I'm save right?

But there's a positive side of this, and that thing is that europe countries could know who used btc for buying illegal things.

Seems that you are) BTW this will not make regulators know who've spent BTC for drugs etc. I don't think that sellers at dark web are making such reports  ))))

[bitbaby]

I have said this before, for bitcoin to go mainstream it will have to lose some part if its anonymity, at-least on the buying/selling part, the rest cannot be regulated.

[yenxz]

Europe wants end to anonymous Bitcoin transactions

Money-laundering powers seen as crimp on terror funds if virtual currencies offer (unlikely) help
3 Feb 2016 at 07:18, Simon Sharwood

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/03/ec_virtual_currency_regulation_suggestion/

good idea,but not easy,as long they not consider bitcoin as serious currency,they will not able to relize that,need more company like blockchain to work together.

[virtualdn]

first of all such illegalities are done with BIG quantities of money. They should look at transactions over 10 or 100 BTC... not at pennies  

OK and how will every micro transaction be filtered? you would need super computers doing that... sounds like Science Fiction to me

[bargainbin]

first of all such illegalities are done with BIG quantities of money. They should look at transactions over 10 or 100 BTC... not at pennies 

The wonderful thing about BTC is that the cost of transacting is really low (up til now it has been, at least. All is subject to change).
So, if I needed to launder a few million Euros, I could do it via multiple sub-10BTC transactions. For less than the price of a latte

[bargainbin]

OK and how will every micro transaction be filtered? you would need super computers doing that... sounds like Science Fiction to me

Lolno.
The Bitcoin network is capable of ~3 (sustained rate) transactions per second, max. Keeping track of that requires the crunch power of a Raspberry Pi. Not the new RasPi, the old RasPi.
Supercomputer

[virtualdn]

OK and how will every micro transaction be filtered? you would need super computers doing that... sounds like Science Fiction to me

Lolno.
The Bitcoin network is capable of ~3 (sustained rate) transactions per second, max. Keeping track of that requires the crunch power of a Raspberry Pi. Not the new RasPi, the old RasPi.
Supercomputer

well... everything is transparent anyway, more than any fiat will ever be

"Transactions are verified by network nodes and recorded in a public distributed ledger called the block chain." - can you go more transparent than that?

[andulolika]

No one should have the power/voice to do that to bitcoin. I dont understand why this is even put under discussion. Bitcoin is everything we need to get rid of our governments and hopefully one day even go over what we now call countries, but by even allowing us to think to eliminate the points of bitcoin we will end up in failure. Remember why BTC was created. "They" should not have an opinion, any of their opinions will drive us to their benefit, we must stay strong if we really want to change shit, if we go lick their asses and accept their petitions just because they do them we are doomed.

[bargainbin]

OK and how will every micro transaction be filtered? you would need super computers doing that... sounds like Science Fiction to me

Lolno.
The Bitcoin network is capable of ~3 (sustained rate) transactions per second, max. Keeping track of that requires the crunch power of a Raspberry Pi. Not the new RasPi, the old RasPi.
Supercomputer

well... everything is transparent anyway, more than any fiat will ever be

"Transactions are verified by network nodes and recorded in a public distributed ledger called the block chain." - can you go more transparent than that?

No, I can't. If I cared which binary string (bitcoin addy) did business with which other binary string.
If, OTOH, I care about *who* did business with *whom* (as in human meatspace entities), I think I can do a bit better

@andulolika: it's rhetoric like yours ("Bitcoin is everything we need to get rid of our governments") that makes government come down hard on BTC.
Don't poke sleeping bears, or don't be surprised when you get mauled

[andulolika]

OK and how will every micro transaction be filtered? you would need super computers doing that... sounds like Science Fiction to me

Lolno.
The Bitcoin network is capable of ~3 (sustained rate) transactions per second, max. Keeping track of that requires the crunch power of a Raspberry Pi. Not the new RasPi, the old RasPi.
Supercomputer

well... everything is transparent anyway, more than any fiat will ever be

"Transactions are verified by network nodes and recorded in a public distributed ledger called the block chain." - can you go more transparent than that?

No, I can't. If I cared which binary string (bitcoin addy) did business with which other binary string.
If, OTOH, I care about *who* did business with *whom* (as in human meatspace entities), I think I can do a bit better

@andulolika: it's rhetoric like yours ("Bitcoin is everything we need to get rid of our governments") that makes government come down hard on BTC.
Don't poke sleeping bears, or don't be surprised when you get mauled

I do know that, but i see no hidden way to communicate between ourselves. Its just a matter of time till it cannot be stopped.

[szenekonzept]

OK and how will every micro transaction be filtered? you would need super computers doing that... sounds like Science Fiction to me

Lolno.
The Bitcoin network is capable of ~3 (sustained rate) transactions per second, max. Keeping track of that requires the crunch power of a Raspberry Pi. Not the new RasPi, the old RasPi.
Supercomputer

well... everything is transparent anyway, more than any fiat will ever be

"Transactions are verified by network nodes and recorded in a public distributed ledger called the block chain." - can you go more transparent than that?

No, I can't. If I cared which binary string (bitcoin addy) did business with which other binary string.
If, OTOH, I care about *who* did business with *whom* (as in human meatspace entities), I think I can do a bit better

@andulolika: it's rhetoric like yours ("Bitcoin is everything we need to get rid of our governments") that makes government come down hard on BTC.
Don't poke sleeping bears, or don't be surprised when you get mauled

Ah don't poke the government may be O.K. as an approach (though i don't agree with that) but don't fear its ridiculous attempts either,
this is the best example that our state will have to learn, the first regulate then understand approach,
is always a shot into their own foot since finace has gone technical. i wonder how they think to get rid of all those privacy centric cons, there is simply no chance. Other then bitcoin,bitcoin
IS transparent by default and in times of Big Data, you will also be able to always track down AVERAGE users. But thats nothing new, everybody should be aware of that.


So there is really nothing to talk about on that relevation, the state like tgo make a transparent  coin transparent, maybe UNDERSTANDING the coin would bring plenty of transparece for our gov, lol.
But if sombody thinks to make a post about this claim , there will be of course someone speak up and say that this is pointless, that's nothing to complain about.
And its not something that pokes our government ...


And anyway state will get tough on crypto sooner or later - untill that happens, i am happy about any scammer around here to challenge us,
i love this training they are providing here. we will have to be prepared for some tough  lessons for both sides.

have fun
Matthias


.

[andulolika]

OK and how will every micro transaction be filtered? you would need super computers doing that... sounds like Science Fiction to me

Lolno.
The Bitcoin network is capable of ~3 (sustained rate) transactions per second, max. Keeping track of that requires the crunch power of a Raspberry Pi. Not the new RasPi, the old RasPi.
Supercomputer

well... everything is transparent anyway, more than any fiat will ever be

"Transactions are verified by network nodes and recorded in a public distributed ledger called the block chain." - can you go more transparent than that?

No, I can't. If I cared which binary string (bitcoin addy) did business with which other binary string.
If, OTOH, I care about *who* did business with *whom* (as in human meatspace entities), I think I can do a bit better

@andulolika: it's rhetoric like yours ("Bitcoin is everything we need to get rid of our governments") that makes government come down hard on BTC.
Don't poke sleeping bears, or don't be surprised when you get mauled

Ah don't poke the government may be O.K. as an approach (though i don't agree with that) but don't fear its ridiculous attempts either,
this is the best example that our state will have to learn, the first regulate then understand approach,
is always a shot into their own foot since finace has gone technical. i wonder how they think to get rid of all those privacy centric cons, there is simply no chance. Other then bitcoin,bitcoin
IS transparent by default and in times of Big Data, you will also be able to always track down AVERAGE users. But thats nothing new, everybody should be aware of that.


So there is really nothing to talk about on that relevation, the state like tgo make a transparent  coin transparent, maybe UNDERSTANDING the coin would bring plenty of transparece for our gov, lol.
But if sombody thinks to make a post about this claim , there will be of course someone speak up and say that this is pointless, that's nothing to complain about.
And its not something that pokes our government ...


And anyway state will get tough on crypto sooner or later - untill that happens, i am happy about any scammer around here to challenge us,
i love this training they are providing here. we will have to be prepared for some tough  lessons for both sides.

have fun
Matthias


.

Hahaha you made me laugh hard, in my opinion you right there, there is not much they can do if bitcoin pass on POS, i mean  we wouldnt depend on miners hence we wouldnt depend on legal stuff either.

Regarding the scammers meh, it is true that the more you deal with them the easier is to recon them after, but they done much damage to crypto, yet i believe its peoples fault, bitcoin is about security, but all that bitcoin teach its users at the beginning is bitcoin. There should be a more conciouss group of people that would set up new users to be safe.

[szenekonzept]

OK and how will every micro transaction be filtered? you would need super computers doing that... sounds like Science Fiction to me

Lolno.
The Bitcoin network is capable of ~3 (sustained rate) transactions per second, max. Keeping track of that requires the crunch power of a Raspberry Pi. Not the new RasPi, the old RasPi.
Supercomputer

well... everything is transparent anyway, more than any fiat will ever be

"Transactions are verified by network nodes and recorded in a public distributed ledger called the block chain." - can you go more transparent than that?

No, I can't. If I cared which binary string (bitcoin addy) did business with which other binary string.
If, OTOH, I care about *who* did business with *whom* (as in human meatspace entities), I think I can do a bit better

@andulolika: it's rhetoric like yours ("Bitcoin is everything we need to get rid of our governments") that makes government come down hard on BTC.
Don't poke sleeping bears, or don't be surprised when you get mauled

Ah don't poke the government may be O.K. as an approach (though i don't agree with that) but don't fear its ridiculous attempts either,
this is the best example that our state will have to learn, the first regulate then understand approach,
is always a shot into their own foot since finace has gone technical. i wonder how they think to get rid of all those privacy centric cons, there is simply no chance. Other then bitcoin,bitcoin
IS transparent by default and in times of Big Data, you will also be able to always track down AVERAGE users. But thats nothing new, everybody should be aware of that.


So there is really nothing to talk about on that relevation, the state like tgo make a transparent  coin transparent, maybe UNDERSTANDING the coin would bring plenty of transparece for our gov, lol.
But if sombody thinks to make a post about this claim , there will be of course someone speak up and say that this is pointless, that's nothing to complain about.
And its not something that pokes our government ...


And anyway state will get tough on crypto sooner or later - untill that happens, i am happy about any scammer around here to challenge us,
i love this training they are providing here. we will have to be prepared for some tough  lessons for both sides.

have fun
Matthias


.

Hahaha you made me laugh hard, in my opinion you right there, there is not much they can do if bitcoin pass on POS, i mean  we wouldnt depend on miners hence we wouldnt depend on legal stuff either.

Regarding the scammers meh, it is true that the more you deal with them the easier is to recon them after, but they done much damage to crypto, yet i believe its peoples fault, bitcoin is about security, but all that bitcoin teach its users at the beginning is bitcoin. There should be a more conciouss group of people that would set up new users to be safe.

Rethink the idea of POS, you are not able to get POS to generate the same unbeatable computing power like the current POW does. I am a fan of POS I am running a VPOS coin myself and i am proud of this coin (see it in my sig), but for Bitcoin its different:One CORE CRYPTO has to have an unbeatable network and that is bitcoin. Altcoins in general are not secure from that pespective anyway, because of lag of computing power, Altcoin are alive because no one decided to kill them. We will need at least another one or two years to get a reasonable network strenth. But time will provide it for those who survive and that will be a tiny fraction of those coins we
we too often consider as established.

have fun
Matthias

[Ailmand]

Bitcoin transactions are public, Blockchain transactions you can see very easy. So everything is very clear - BTC anonymity do not exist. 

So what about Monero? It is anonymous coins. You cannot track the trasaction without a viewing key. That should be banned more than bitcoin.

[BadGhost]

You cannot regulate it. How will they implement anything against bitcoin to bitcoin transaction? And if so, if they somehow find a way. There will be another altcoin without public accessible ledger. Not possible. They might either ban it or good luck regulating it.

[bargainbin]

You cannot regulate it. How will they implement anything against bitcoin to bitcoin transaction? And if so, if they somehow find a way. There will be another altcoin without public accessible ledger. Not possible. They might either ban it or good luck regulating it.

Please understand that it's not the technology that's being regulated, but the movement of real, what folks here call "fiat toilet paper" money, into it.
You can send bitcoins to each other all you want, AFAIK. Even trade them for other shitcoins.
It's when you want to exchange them for *real money* -- that's what they want to regulate. They probably will, too

[BadGhost]

Please understand that it's not the technology that's being regulated, but the movement of real, what folks here call "fiat toilet paper" money, into it.
You can send bitcoins to each other all you want, AFAIK. Even trade them for other shitcoins.
It's when you want to exchange them for *real money* -- that's what they want to regulate. They probably will, too

I understand. I made a post about it (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1362191.0). You can regulate the beginning or the end - either the exchange or the person in possession of BTC. But with money laundering and anonymity its very hard. You can just buy bitcoins in dark alley using hard cash and there is no trace of it.

You can also have BTC that you know that comes from a shady deal so you go on the exchange sell them. Use the money you got from the deal and buy bitcoins again using a different valet. Technically clean BTC.

But how will you regulate the exchanges? I mean the owner of the exchange cannot do a background check on the btc incoming from the internet, when someone is selling them. So all they can do is to ask you where did you get the money you are using to buy bitcoin? And that is already done by the company that owns your debit/credit. The place for regulation is very little. But every bitcoin exchange is under reasonable doubt that it helps to mediate a money laundering.

And as you correctly said the technology cannot be regulated.

[blunderer]

Please understand that it's not the technology that's being regulated, but the movement of real, what folks here call "fiat toilet paper" money, into it.
You can send bitcoins to each other all you want, AFAIK. Even trade them for other shitcoins.
It's when you want to exchange them for *real money* -- that's what they want to regulate. They probably will, too

I understand. I made a post about it (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1362191.0). You can regulate the beginning or the end - either the exchange or the person in possession of BTC. But with money laundering and anonymity its very hard. You can just buy bitcoins in dark alley using hard cash and there is no trace of it.

You can also have BTC that you know that comes from a shady deal so you go on the exchange sell them. Use the money you got from the deal and buy bitcoins again using a different valet. Technically clean BTC.

But how will you regulate the exchanges? I mean the owner of the exchange cannot do a background check on the btc incoming from the internet, when someone is selling them. So all they can do is to ask you where did you get the money you are using to buy bitcoin? And that is already done by the company that owns your debit/credit. The place for regulation is very little. But every bitcoin exchange is under reasonable doubt that it helps to mediate a money laundering.

And as you correctly said the technology cannot be regulated.

>You can just buy bitcoins in dark alley using hard cash and there is no trace of it.
Yeah, you could. Rather illiquid, and then you're stuck with BTC that you have to *sell in a dark alley*. Nowhere as convenient as doing it at an exchange that doesn't require any ID, amirite?

>Technically clean BTC
Or use a dice site/tumbler/btc2shitcoin exchange. Cleaning BTC ain't a problem, unless we're talking massive amounts.

>And that is already done by the company that owns your debit/credit.
Exchanges (well, unless you call Circle an exchange) don't do debit/credit cards, afaik.

>cannot do a background check on the btc incoming from the internet
Has your ID. Banks don't do background checks on garbage bags of bills you bring in either, but I'd advise against doing so.

>The place for regulation is very little
The most important bit is your BTC transactions will suddenly not only be linked to a BTC addy, but to your IRL identity. Along with your money transactions. And, of course, the exchanges will be held accountable/heavily audited, so shit like Sherm will be much more likely to happen.

Sure, nothing is perfect--murder and child porn are illegal, but they do exist. Regulation will simply make shit more difficult. Although not altogether impossible.

[aardvark15]

Merchants that accept Bitcoin transactions mostly know who the customer is.  However, it's much harder to track the identity of individuals making private transactions.  That will always be mostly anonymous (unless Bitcoin is completely changed).