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Author Topic: Mining Efficiency Experiments  (Read 1776 times)
Lethn
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January 13, 2013, 02:14:15 PM
 #1

So as you know I've been pretty interested in Bitcoin as a currency but honestly I think mining is a complete waste of time, I've looked at a lot of the stuff people are doing with FPGA's etc. doing ridiculous things like dumping it in liquid oil ( Your house is going to burn down at some point, you'll burn yourself or you'll waste even more money than just with normal cooling methods because of the price of oil ) or pointing a ton of electricity hungry fans at whatever is generating your Bitcoins and completely eliminating any profit you could make.

I have seen three major problems with mining that have completely annoyed me when trying it:

. Cost of electricity - This is an obvious one but for some reason it's something that people tend to miss, if you're having to generate a huge amount of expensive electricity or the miners you are using are wasting a lot of it then you simply aren't going to make any money this way that said, it's a currency, so it's really not something you should be trying to build a life around anyway

. Cooling - For those who don't deal with components very often like me, cooling is very important for all these special components that do every day things for you, GPU Mining is very resource intensive, more so I've noticed than 3D rendering or gaming so if you don't watch it and make sure you have a good number of fans etc. your graphics card will get damaged and in the worse case quite literally fry!

. Sound from those fucking annoying fans - Lets face it, fans don't and I suspect never will make the most pleasant noises in the world unless someone finds a way to convert it to pleasant music for us to listen to, lets see if I can make them quieter, keeping the heat down seems to directly effect it because they don't have to work as hard and make my ears bleed

So far and this may be obvious to those of you who deal with components a lot anyway, I've found that if you're in a cold climate, especially one that's cold all year round, you are one lucky son of a bitch because from what I've seen all you'd do is have to stick your miners in a garage or something and then just wait but of course the downside to this is you have to keep the computers protected from the elements and having a nice air flow at the same time, I found that if I put the cover on my tower the temperature jumped a good 10°C. This isn't really much of a solution for a casual miner though because if you're like me you actually use your computer for things other than mining you're going to freeze so I'll see if I can't find a better solution.  Feel free to post your own ideas, I'm going to try and come up with some of my own and see if we can't make mining a much more pleasant and less costly experience.

I'm currently at 77°C - 80°C I'll see if I can't get that number lower through artificial means rather than making myself freeze, keeping the heating off at winter does make quite a difference though, I'll try and find a program that will tell me what voltage my computer is currently going at.
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January 14, 2013, 04:47:57 AM
 #2

I have 6x7970 and with stock fans they are at 60 degrees C. Ambient temp is 65 F.  Also, my electricity is 0.12 cents per kW.  What are you paying?

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January 14, 2013, 10:17:41 AM
 #3

I'll need to check that lolz that's why I'm going to get something to measure the volts I don't know how much I'm costing in electricity, I'm in the parents house for now, I actually have a plan of maybe getting a fan and using it on an open tower with a home built electricity generator, we'll see if anything can come of that, but that would cut the costs dramatically I expect if I can get the temperature down much further because you could practically turn the GPU fans off.
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January 14, 2013, 10:34:27 AM
 #4

downvolt = more efficiency, less heat, less noise.
problem solved
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January 14, 2013, 10:39:27 AM
 #5

rofl yes, but you have to worry about the heat still you muppet Tongue not all of us are perfectly comfortable with letting our expensive GPU's fry slowly into a cumpled mess of plastic.
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January 14, 2013, 10:57:29 AM
 #6

Thanks to that tip from conspirosphere.tk I am now running at a steady ( ouch ) 79°C - 80°C, the sound is more pleasant but the performance is sacrificed I'd also need a smaller fan than what I have currently because I got reminded of when my dad told me that switching it on at night made it sound like a Russian bomber lol.
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January 14, 2013, 02:36:28 PM
 #7

a home built electricity generator, we'll see if anything can come of that,

Not sure what you have in mind for "a home built generator"?

But you could pay for allot of conventional electricity with the money solar or wind generation would cost.  It would take a VERY long time to get a return on that investment.  Not that I think it would be a bad idea mind you, just expensive.
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January 14, 2013, 03:24:02 PM
 #8

Thanks to that tip from conspirosphere.tk I am now running at a steady ( ouch ) 79°C - 80°C

Are you keeping your rig open (without side panel)?
That is mandatory for miners.

My 58XX radeons are mining @64-65° C downvolted at 0,960v, core 800 (5830) -850 (5870), mem @300, fan @40%
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January 16, 2013, 01:22:32 AM
 #9

a home built electricity generator, we'll see if anything can come of that,

Not sure what you have in mind for "a home built generator"?

But you could pay for allot of conventional electricity with the money solar or wind generation would cost.  It would take a VERY long time to get a return on that investment.  Not that I think it would be a bad idea mind you, just expensive.
Sam

lol I'm not going to pay for that kind of overpriced stuff I want to build it myself for the hell of it and we'll see what happens Tongue hopefully I won't disintegrate myself or blow up the house by accident O_O so I guess some rubber gloves etc. might need to be ordered, since I only need to power a fan really it'd be interesting to see what would happen. I actually think if I get the heat down using a normal fan that's not powered by expensive coal then that would cut the costs dramatically and I wouldn't have to feel so worried keeping it on overnight.

There's only one problem with this idea or several depending on how you look at it, I have so many practical issues to consider depending on what sort of climate I'm in and hydro-electric seems like the most sensible option to pick because when it runs it can run constantly, I don't have a running stream nearby though so of course I'm going to probably end up having to invent a way to artificially generate the electricity. I also need to look at how to build the generator itself properly, you don't need overpriced and industrial wind turbines etc. to power a fan, they don't take that much electricity but I'm going to have to take some time to properly think about this so I don't blow myself up or anything daft like that if I accidentally discover something lol.
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January 16, 2013, 01:52:40 AM
 #10

a home built electricity generator, we'll see if anything can come of that,

Not sure what you have in mind for "a home built generator"?

But you could pay for allot of conventional electricity with the money solar or wind generation would cost.  It would take a VERY long time to get a return on that investment.  Not that I think it would be a bad idea mind you, just expensive.
Sam

lol I'm not going to pay for that kind of overpriced stuff I want to build it myself for the hell of it and we'll see what happens Tongue hopefully I won't disintegrate myself or blow up the house by accident O_O so I guess some rubber gloves etc. might need to be ordered, since I only need to power a fan really it'd be interesting to see what would happen. I actually think if I get the heat down using a normal fan that's not powered by expensive coal then that would cut the costs dramatically and I wouldn't have to feel so worried keeping it on overnight.

There's only one problem with this idea or several depending on how you look at it, I have so many practical issues to consider depending on what sort of climate I'm in and hydro-electric seems like the most sensible option to pick because when it runs it can run constantly, I don't have a running stream nearby though so of course I'm going to probably end up having to invent a way to artificially generate the electricity. I also need to look at how to build the generator itself properly, you don't need overpriced and industrial wind turbines etc. to power a fan, they don't take that much electricity but I'm going to have to take some time to properly think about this so I don't blow myself up or anything daft like that if I accidentally discover something lol.

Well I guess you can train the Guinea Pigs to row a boat like on that Geico commercial.

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January 16, 2013, 02:01:30 AM
 #11

rofl Tongue anythings on the table now Cheesy I thought about hydroelectric, the only problem with it of course is the running stream you need a constant liquid going through it but there's no way to get it back up again without wasting energy at least as far as I know right now.

Edit: I think I'm also looking at this entirely wrong, it's probably best if I look at energy storage if I'm going to deal with electricity >_<
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January 19, 2013, 07:37:10 PM
 #12

Thanks to that tip from conspirosphere.tk I am now running at a steady ( ouch ) 79°C - 80°C

Are you keeping your rig open (without side panel)?
That is mandatory for miners.

My 58XX radeons are mining @64-65° C downvolted at 0,960v, core 800 (5830) -850 (5870), mem @300, fan @40%

I think it's better not to invest in a case at all.  If you're fancy, you can get a server rack or fabricate something yourself... if not, you can put your stuff on a piece of cardboard.  Use an eraser or something to jam between them to create some space if you aren't using risers.

I have one system with 3 GPUs that have had their fans removed (and plate and fancy covering) and just have a floor fan blowing at them instead.

re: efficiency, that depends totally on the cost of your electricity, though nowadays I suppose it'd have to be Pretty Damn Cheap to, say, run a 5830 at 1020 core @ 1.163v vs 920 core @ 1.063v.  I run mine at 920-160.  I think you lose 1 or 2 mhash vs 300 and the 256 worksize... or last I checked, anyway

oh, i should mention that whilst a floor fan will always provide more cooling, one must angle it properly to achieve maximum efficiency.   i like the use old DVD drives and card casings...  and those old honeywell fans are tons better than the new ones.    all this nonsense about fans being quiet.  i was looking around amazon for a 'loud as shit' fan that puts out a lot of air, but couldnt find any

Dacentec, best deals for US dedicated servers. They regularly restock $20-$25 Opterons with 8-16GB RAM & 2x1-2TB HDD's (ofc, usually lots of other good stuff to choose from).  I did a Serverbear benchmark of one of my $20/mo Opteron (June last year), it's here.  Have had about a half dozen different servers with Dacentec, & none have failed to sustain at least 40MB/s (burst higher). My favorite is a 12-month rent-to-own ZT Systems 2XL5520 16GB 2x2TB SATA for $40/month (got lucky with the 'off-brand', haven't seen a RTO 2xL5520 for under $50/mo since -- at least for monthly contracts).  wholesaleinternet.com has some ancient 2-core intel CPUs @ $10/mo sometimes (I got an Intel Core 2 6300 @ 1.86GHz, with a 250GB HDD with 46000 hours on it, LOL. $20 @ Dacentec is much better, if you can grab one). joesdatacenter.com (same location as Wholesale Internet) also occasionally has specials (or if you don't want to wait, it has an AMD Opteron 170 @ $16/mo).
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January 23, 2013, 01:56:15 AM
 #13

Thanks to that tip from conspirosphere.tk I am now running at a steady ( ouch ) 79°C - 80°C

Are you keeping your rig open (without side panel)?
That is mandatory for miners.

My 58XX radeons are mining @64-65° C downvolted at 0,960v, core 800 (5830) -850 (5870), mem @300, fan @40%
The best case ever is the cardboard box your motherboard came with, open. With the PSU hanging off the side Tongue
I think it's better not to invest in a case at all.  If you're fancy, you can get a server rack or fabricate something yourself... if not, you can put your stuff on a piece of cardboard.  Use an eraser or something to jam between them to create some space if you aren't using risers.

I have one system with 3 GPUs that have had their fans removed (and plate and fancy covering) and just have a floor fan blowing at them instead.

re: efficiency, that depends totally on the cost of your electricity, though nowadays I suppose it'd have to be Pretty Damn Cheap to, say, run a 5830 at 1020 core @ 1.163v vs 920 core @ 1.063v.  I run mine at 920-160.  I think you lose 1 or 2 mhash vs 300 and the 256 worksize... or last I checked, anyway

oh, i should mention that whilst a floor fan will always provide more cooling, one must angle it properly to achieve maximum efficiency.   i like the use old DVD drives and card casings...  and those old honeywell fans are tons better than the new ones.    all this nonsense about fans being quiet.  i was looking around amazon for a 'loud as shit' fan that puts out a lot of air, but couldnt find any

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January 23, 2013, 09:34:50 AM
 #14

Thanks to that tip from conspirosphere.tk I am now running at a steady ( ouch ) 79°C - 80°C

Are you keeping your rig open (without side panel)?
That is mandatory for miners.

My 58XX radeons are mining @64-65° C downvolted at 0,960v, core 800 (5830) -850 (5870), mem @300, fan @40%
The best case ever is the cardboard box your motherboard came with, open. With the PSU hanging off the side Tongue
I think it's better not to invest in a case at all.  If you're fancy, you can get a server rack or fabricate something yourself... if not, you can put your stuff on a piece of cardboard.  Use an eraser or something to jam between them to create some space if you aren't using risers.

I have one system with 3 GPUs that have had their fans removed (and plate and fancy covering) and just have a floor fan blowing at them instead.

re: efficiency, that depends totally on the cost of your electricity, though nowadays I suppose it'd have to be Pretty Damn Cheap to, say, run a 5830 at 1020 core @ 1.163v vs 920 core @ 1.063v.  I run mine at 920-160.  I think you lose 1 or 2 mhash vs 300 and the 256 worksize... or last I checked, anyway

oh, i should mention that whilst a floor fan will always provide more cooling, one must angle it properly to achieve maximum efficiency.   i like the use old DVD drives and card casings...  and those old honeywell fans are tons better than the new ones.    all this nonsense about fans being quiet.  i was looking around amazon for a 'loud as shit' fan that puts out a lot of air, but couldnt find any

this is true

i have taken the extra step to salvage some mounting plates from old cases though, so i only have one hard drive that just sits on cardboard, the others sit on the floor, screwed in all fancy like

ed:  well, i should use USB sticks for them all, but i ran out.. so i started using like old 50GB IDE drives

Dacentec, best deals for US dedicated servers. They regularly restock $20-$25 Opterons with 8-16GB RAM & 2x1-2TB HDD's (ofc, usually lots of other good stuff to choose from).  I did a Serverbear benchmark of one of my $20/mo Opteron (June last year), it's here.  Have had about a half dozen different servers with Dacentec, & none have failed to sustain at least 40MB/s (burst higher). My favorite is a 12-month rent-to-own ZT Systems 2XL5520 16GB 2x2TB SATA for $40/month (got lucky with the 'off-brand', haven't seen a RTO 2xL5520 for under $50/mo since -- at least for monthly contracts).  wholesaleinternet.com has some ancient 2-core intel CPUs @ $10/mo sometimes (I got an Intel Core 2 6300 @ 1.86GHz, with a 250GB HDD with 46000 hours on it, LOL. $20 @ Dacentec is much better, if you can grab one). joesdatacenter.com (same location as Wholesale Internet) also occasionally has specials (or if you don't want to wait, it has an AMD Opteron 170 @ $16/mo).
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January 23, 2013, 11:51:25 AM
 #15

i only have one hard drive that just sits on cardboard

Hope that is anti-static cardboard.

Personally I like having grounded case metal, if for no other reason, for discharging static before I touch anything, keyboard and wired mouse included, especially during the dry winter.  One good static zap to any component could do allot of damage.

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January 24, 2013, 10:07:54 AM
 #16

i only have one hard drive that just sits on cardboard

Hope that is anti-static cardboard.

Personally I like having grounded case metal, if for no other reason, for discharging static before I touch anything, keyboard and wired mouse included, especially during the dry winter.  One good static zap to any component could do allot of damage.
after the first time i zapped my motherboard (no damage), i make sure to discharge all my electrical goodness before handling it

Dacentec, best deals for US dedicated servers. They regularly restock $20-$25 Opterons with 8-16GB RAM & 2x1-2TB HDD's (ofc, usually lots of other good stuff to choose from).  I did a Serverbear benchmark of one of my $20/mo Opteron (June last year), it's here.  Have had about a half dozen different servers with Dacentec, & none have failed to sustain at least 40MB/s (burst higher). My favorite is a 12-month rent-to-own ZT Systems 2XL5520 16GB 2x2TB SATA for $40/month (got lucky with the 'off-brand', haven't seen a RTO 2xL5520 for under $50/mo since -- at least for monthly contracts).  wholesaleinternet.com has some ancient 2-core intel CPUs @ $10/mo sometimes (I got an Intel Core 2 6300 @ 1.86GHz, with a 250GB HDD with 46000 hours on it, LOL. $20 @ Dacentec is much better, if you can grab one). joesdatacenter.com (same location as Wholesale Internet) also occasionally has specials (or if you don't want to wait, it has an AMD Opteron 170 @ $16/mo).
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January 24, 2013, 10:22:07 AM
 #17

About the cost of mining:

An added benefit of mining is annonymity. When people solo mined, in the old days, it had the added benefit of being untraceable, which is a must if your interest is to buy "stuff". Further there are fees on exchanges and risk of being ripped off!

All that summs up to some extra profittability to miners, and is why some apparently are mining at a loss.


 
 
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os2sam
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January 24, 2013, 11:54:52 AM
 #18

and is why some apparently are mining at a loss.

People have different criteria as to what mining at a loss is.  I'm investing for the future in which I believe there is a good chance that Bitcoin will have allot more buying power.  Also I'm looking at consistency.  I want to be able to mine reliably with having monitor it all of the time.

But it could be all for naught I suppose and be a loss for me in the end.  A risk I'm willing to take, for now.

ASIC's may be a great solution to the power efficiency part of the equation.  My hope is that a give device will have longevity as well so that it can mine consistently for long periods of time.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
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January 24, 2013, 12:16:00 PM
 #19

www.mnn.com/green-tech/research-innovations/blogs/japanese-breakthrough-will-make-wind-power-cheaper-than-nuclea

lol badass, doing more research into electricity generation and found this, all the methods are already being researched, we just have to find a way to keep energy now without wasting it for long term.
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