21 Inc. True Micropayments with Bitcoin

[Denker]

https://medium.com/@21/true-micropayments-with-bitcoin-e64fec23ffd8#.3khobnccg

Today we’re announcing the release of software and libraries to allow high frequency Bitcoin-based microtransactions between any pair of 21 Bitcoin Computers, without any change to the Bitcoin block size. And soon, you’ll be able to download a free client that makes this work between any pair of devices.

What do you think about that?
And in how far is this different to the Lightning Network?

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[Zarathustra]

https://medium.com/@21/true-micropayments-with-bitcoin-e64fec23ffd8#.3khobnccg

Today we’re announcing the release of software and libraries to allow high frequency Bitcoin-based microtransactions between any pair of 21 Bitcoin Computers, without any change to the Bitcoin block size. And soon, you’ll be able to download a free client that makes this work between any pair of devices.

What do you think about that?

This is just one example of competition which prevents the ridiculous artificially enforced fee market that BlockstR3am/PWC/Core dream of.

[el_rlee]

is this really the only posting about that on this forum?

[xqus]

is this really the only posting about that on this forum?

I haven't seen it anywhere else here today. You should think this was quite big news.

[7788bitcoin]

Interesting. So, it must be between two 21 Raspberry Pi computers... I wonder if it is similar to Sidechain or other similar ideas...

[Denker]

Interesting. So, it must be between two 21 Raspberry Pi computers... I wonder if it is similar to Sidechain or other similar ideas...

I think Lightning Network would be the closest comparison.
I found some interesting posts by a redditor.

This is my quick take:

LN is about developing a routing system that can make these type payment channels interoperable.

These 21 channels just let you open a channel and transact with one person (apparently unidirectionally). That's been in Bitcoin for a long time, but no one ever develops uses for it.

The LN will allow a person to open a channel like this and then send a payment to someone they haven't opened a channel with. In practice, the node the payor opens a channel with will have several channels open and payments will be routed between numerous payment channels until the destination is reached. This could take 10 hops, but it will be super fast because no confirmations.

By 21 adding this, they are simply incrementally building up to the eventual LN. It's a good step. Also, it's a good way to show the need for the LN; once people use this and like it, they will critique it for being limited to payments with only one person.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

[Bit_Happy]

However, the system we’ve created builds on those implementations in a few key ways.

    Integrated setup of deposit transactions. Every user of the 21 client can quickly mine enough bitcoin for the initial so-called “deposit transaction” to open a micropayments channel, which is the equivalent of opening a tab.
    One line integration. We’ve built an easy to use micropayments API that allows any Bitcoin Computer to instantly buy or sell digital goods using micropayments channels by adding one line of code.
    Malleability resistance. As a technical point, we’re using the new CLTV opcode rather than so-called Spillman-style payment channels. This feature eliminates the vulnerability to transaction malleability-related problems.
    Works on any device. Fourth, as noted above, we will be releasing a free version of the library that allows almost any device (not just a Bitcoin Computer!) to engage in device-to-device micropayments with any other device. You can sign up to download that free client here.

In short, we’ve tried to make micropayment channels even more usable by taking care of all the technical details and allowing you to just build apps....



What do you think about that?
At first look, this is one of the most exciting new releases of 2016.

[jugador]

Interesting. So, it must be between two 21 Raspberry Pi computers... I wonder if it is similar to Sidechain or other similar ideas...

I don't really quite get it. What's the point of it? Would this sidechain help on the main bitcoin blockchain network?

[thejaytiesto]

This is not competition for LN because it's party to party and not open, this is a good explaination:

LN is about developing a routing system that can make these type payment channels interoperable.

These 21 channels just let you open a channel and transact with one person (apparently unidirectionally). That's been in Bitcoin for a long time, but no one ever develops uses for it.

The LN will allow a person to open a channel like this and then send a payment to someone they haven't opened a channel with. In practice, the node the payor opens a channel with will have several channels open and payments will be routed between numerous payment channels until the destination is reached. This could take 10 hops, but it will be super fast because no confirmations.

By 21 adding this, they are simply incrementally building up to the eventual LN. It's a good step. Also, it's a good way to show the need for the LN; once people use this and like it, they will critique it for being limited to payments with only one person.

So as you can see, Lightning Network is still the best way to scale Bitcoin to VISA levels. LN is unavoidable if we want to see Bitcoin grow worldwide without massive datacenter-running nodes, and because of this there is a lot of people hating, because they are mad that blockstream came up with this before them.

[cryptothreads]

https://medium.com/@21/true-micropayments-with-bitcoin-e64fec23ffd8#.3khobnccg

Today we’re announcing the release of software and libraries to allow high frequency Bitcoin-based microtransactions between any pair of 21 Bitcoin Computers, without any change to the Bitcoin block size. And soon, you’ll be able to download a free client that makes this work between any pair of devices.

What do you think about that?
And in how far is this different to the Lightning Network?

I think its a good start for sure. I like the idea behind 21.inc.

[Denker]

This is not competition for LN because it's party to party and not open, this is a good explaination:

LN is about developing a routing system that can make these type payment channels interoperable.

These 21 channels just let you open a channel and transact with one person (apparently unidirectionally). That's been in Bitcoin for a long time, but no one ever develops uses for it.

The LN will allow a person to open a channel like this and then send a payment to someone they haven't opened a channel with. In practice, the node the payor opens a channel with will have several channels open and payments will be routed between numerous payment channels until the destination is reached. This could take 10 hops, but it will be super fast because no confirmations.

By 21 adding this, they are simply incrementally building up to the eventual LN. It's a good step. Also, it's a good way to show the need for the LN; once people use this and like it, they will critique it for being limited to payments with only one person.

So as you can see, Lightning Network is still the best way to scale Bitcoin to VISA levels. LN is unavoidable if we want to see Bitcoin grow worldwide without massive datacenter-running nodes, and because of this there is a lot of people hating, because they are mad that blockstream came up with this before them.

I totally agree. Lightning Network will give Bitcoin an incredible push.
21 inc. it's version however will also find it's users I believe.

I also found a great explanation of LN on letstalkbitcoin.com
Defnitely worth a read if you are not that deep in the tech (I belong to these guys ).
But it's a massive wall of text, so take your time.

The Lightning Network ELIDHDICACS*
(Explain Like I Don’t Have Degrees in Cryptography and Computer Science)
https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/the-lightning-network-elidhdicacs