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Author Topic: Virwox, Dwolla, Mining, MtGox, how do you build up BTC  (Read 687 times)
fresca
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January 14, 2013, 12:21:05 AM
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Virwox has got to be the most illiquid place to exchange for BTC.  They don't use decimals!  And the spreads are egregious.  But I guess the purpose is not precisely for exchange, even so they basically "manufacture" the fxrates with huge spreads.  Dwolla is, yet another, online banking platform that I don't particularly have confidence in giving out banking details to them.  MtGox uses Dwolla or BTC, among others, but nothing like being able to use a cc or something to put into a trading account, so I have yet to use them.  Mining seems to be like the most reasonable way, even if it remains a hobby, as some claim that the electricity costs and hardware will exceed the value of BTC.  And the impending obsolete FPGA rigs to be replaced by ASIC, if and when they get here.

Any suggestions on using other methods or diving into the mining process?  I'd be willing to buy a FPGA, even right now, to continue as a hobby.

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DeathAndTaxes
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January 14, 2013, 12:39:04 AM
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Nobody is going to accept PayPal/CC for any significantly sized amount of BTC because to engage in reversal fraud is pathetically easy with those payment methods.  Also I would point out brokerage and forex accounts generally don't allow funding by credit card.

I wouldn't recommend investing in mining without being willing to do significant (as in a dozen hours or more) of independent research of profitability.  If you aren't willing to do that then most likely you are just going to lose money trying to get into mining.  ASICs will arrive eventually and when they do will turn your FPGA investment into an obsolete piece of garbage almost overnight.
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January 14, 2013, 12:51:20 AM
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Howdy Fresca,

I agree, the limited options aren't exactly ideal but I don't foresee that changing anytime soon. As DeathAndTaxes pointed out above, the fraud/reversal rates are laughably high (I only say laughably because I'm a cynic). I'm also scoping out my options for getting into the mining business, so I will recommend you do as I am currently doing. Continue reading up on the ASIC market, the impending change is drastic which creates a large amount of unnecessary risk in terms of buying new equipment at the moment. I'm waiting for ASICs to hit the market, and even then will wait at least 1-2 months to see some stability in the market before attacking any sort of profitability numbers.

I am, however, doing some GPU mining on the side as a "hobby" while I wait. My laptop has just what it needs to make the operation a little better than breakeven, so I'm basically getting a slight discount on my coins. I'm a financier and an economist, but I don't have the technical know-how to predict what ASICs will do to the market and that is something that I don't want to be on the wrong side of.
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January 14, 2013, 01:05:10 AM
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well fwiw I partook in the bASIC fiasco that is currently ongoing and in that process am learning the ins-and-outs of cc reversals and such.  I really can't claim BTC is any type of financial investment for me.  Besides, as far as I can tell, the IRS has not come out with any statements regarding mining or trading bitcoins.  Its still purely a hobby that I've done with first, CPU, then GPU and for the most part its a time investment.  I've seen posts for people looking to use the trade in value offered by the ASIC teams to sell their old FPGAs.  That is an interest of mine.  I could easily see this ASIC deal taking another six months to de-vaporize.  And if I'm going to buy anymore hardware at the price level for ASICS, I'd like to get my hands a little bit dirtier with the setups of rigs.  From what I can tell there have been a lot of first-time miners buying into ASICS and depending on the company theres going to be some people who can have that thing mining within minutes of opening the package and others who will take weeks to get the thing to work.  I could see some businesses shipping and then having a "you don't matter.  And we don't care." attitude.
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January 14, 2013, 01:41:29 AM
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That very could well be, if you were looking for entry by piggy-backing off of the influx of used rigs being sold I could see that potentially being profitable. That is, however, dependent on your speculation for the time-frame of ASIC release which could totally end up being true and worse(or better?) yet -- it could take even longer. In this case, I would strongly suggest finding some deals being offered and analyzing each in their own right on the merits of the technology and the income over the time period you believe will be open to "exploitation" while people wait for ASICs.

I could definitely see it being "profitable" for you in terms of getting your hands dirty and, who knows, you could even make some cash from it. Good luck to you! I wish I had the technical know-how to get in and set some of these things up myself.
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January 14, 2013, 01:43:30 AM
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The used rigs on the market are probably at the point of death due to being run hot 24/7 for months at a time.
albus
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January 14, 2013, 12:48:30 PM
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As DeathAndTaxes pointed out above, the fraud/reversal rates are laughably high (I only say laughably because I'm a cynic).

Hi there, isn't there a way for a merchant to wait for some kind of definitive money settlement and the transaction to be irreversible via credit card ?
it would just add a bit of latency.
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January 14, 2013, 01:10:49 PM
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As DeathAndTaxes pointed out above, the fraud/reversal rates are laughably high (I only say laughably because I'm a cynic).

Hi there, isn't there a way for a merchant to wait for some kind of definitive money settlement and the transaction to be irreversible via credit card ?
it would just add a bit of latency.

The chargeback statute of limitations can be up to 18 months ....
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