£16,000 ($23,209) for profitable Bitcoin Mining farm?

[notlist3d]

Perhaps a second hand SP50!?

 Have to find a NEW SP50 around somewhere first - so far as anyone knows outside of Spondoolies themselves or possibly someone under NDA, they seem to not be in existance or production yet.

 There has been NO announcement on price on the things anywhere public that I'm aware of (I've looked), just quite a bit of speculative guessing.



 While 7 cents/KWH (US) is fairly cheap, it's not VERY cheap or even close. 5.54 is getting close to the VERY cheap range, but definitly is not VERY VERY cheap 3 cent/KWH or less like most of the major farms seem to have access to - and if you expect to be profitable for the long term you've got to get at least fairly close to their ballpark.

Yes, you are right, the SP50 are only available to large well funded projects (just confirmed with the website). Perhaps by September there might be one second hand, but as you say there is no price available, and the official sales team wouldn't give me one either haha! So I guess I am stuck with the S7's for now, unless a new miner comes out by September.

Also, I have no idea why the S7 with power supply are being sold for so much by other companies? In UK average price is around 1500-1800 pounds per  S7 unit with power supply. BUT, if I ordered from the official Bitmain website, it would only cost $986.34/655.92 pounds (batch 9) and even with VAT and duty import charges that is still only around 200 pounds extra (855.92 pounds) and they only charge 52 dollars for shipping! With the pound to dollar conversion, I would be saving a lot of money.

THAT IS LIKE 644.08 POUNDS CHEAPER! People on ebay are literally outbidding each other well into the 1000 + pounds area. Lol, people really over estimate the prices from the official company. Although for some reason the batch 9 is cheaper than the batch 3. 

Looks like India would be cheapest electrcity! I'm going to email energy companies there for quotes and research just how unstable the supply is and in general how corrupt it is.

I'm not even sure I would count of SP50 at this point.  Bitfury beat them to the chip dev it seems.  So SP team has a chip that uses twice as much as bitfury.... and they have not shown a single chip that I know of.   So they might have lost the war before SP50 comes out, unless they can beat bitfury's price by a lot. 

And keep in mind they went head to head with bitmain during sp20 and S5 day's.  They reported loss twords end of it.  So I don't see them trying to go head to head with another company's price again.

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[Vociferous]

Perhaps a second hand SP50!?

 Have to find a NEW SP50 around somewhere first - so far as anyone knows outside of Spondoolies themselves or possibly someone under NDA, they seem to not be in existance or production yet.

 There has been NO announcement on price on the things anywhere public that I'm aware of (I've looked), just quite a bit of speculative guessing.



 While 7 cents/KWH (US) is fairly cheap, it's not VERY cheap or even close. 5.54 is getting close to the VERY cheap range, but definitly is not VERY VERY cheap 3 cent/KWH or less like most of the major farms seem to have access to - and if you expect to be profitable for the long term you've got to get at least fairly close to their ballpark.

Yes, you are right, the SP50 are only available to large well funded projects (just confirmed with the website). Perhaps by September there might be one second hand, but as you say there is no price available, and the official sales team wouldn't give me one either haha! So I guess I am stuck with the S7's for now, unless a new miner comes out by September.

Also, I have no idea why the S7 with power supply are being sold for so much by other companies? In UK average price is around 1500-1800 pounds per  S7 unit with power supply. BUT, if I ordered from the official Bitmain website, it would only cost $986.34/655.92 pounds (batch 9) and even with VAT and duty import charges that is still only around 200 pounds extra (855.92 pounds) and they only charge 52 dollars for shipping! With the pound to dollar conversion, I would be saving a lot of money.

THAT IS LIKE 644.08 POUNDS CHEAPER! People on ebay are literally outbidding each other well into the 1000 + pounds area. Lol, people really over estimate the prices from the official company. Although for some reason the batch 9 is cheaper than the batch 3.  

Looks like India would be cheapest electrcity! I'm going to email energy companies there for quotes and research just how unstable the supply is and in general how corrupt it is.

I'm not even sure I would count of SP50 at this point.  Bitfury beat them to the chip dev it seems.  So SP team has a chip that uses twice as much as bitfury.... and they have not shown a single chip that I know of.   So they might have lost the war before SP50 comes out, unless they can beat bitfury's price by a lot.  

And keep in mind they went head to head with bitmain during sp20 and S5 day's.  They reported loss twords end of it.  So I don't see them trying to go head to head with another company's price again.

Oh my god. Bitfury is the one where they utilize water cooling by submerging the "containerized data center"? I saw an article about a Bitcoin mine in China using water cooling and the miners were submerged completely under water!

You got any idea how much they costs? Their specs?

[RichBC]

Oh my god. Bitfury is the one where they utilize water cooling by submerging the "containerized data center"? I saw an article about a Bitcoin mine in China using water cooling and the miners were submerged completely under water!

You got any idea how much they costs? Their specs?

Whilst a water cooled submerged container is an interesting idea  I think you will find that the boards are in tanks of Novec Fluid and that the Container is just a rendered concept.


Rich

[Xialla]

I am quite new to this, but I was considering starting a bitcoin mining farm. I was considering investing 16k

dude, if you are interested about bitcoin and new to all this, buy them directly from some reputable exchange.

mining is not for guys like you anymore, unless you are not in China and you don't know ASIC manufacturers. if you really want to mine, buy raspberry pi as controller and some cheap old ASIC and play with it but my honest advice: don't buy any mining gear for thousands of dollars..

[notlist3d]

I am quite new to this, but I was considering starting a bitcoin mining farm. I was considering investing 16k

dude, if you are interested about bitcoin and new to all this, buy them directly from some reputable exchange.

mining is not for guys like you anymore, unless you are not in China and you don't know ASIC manufacturers. if you really want to mine, buy raspberry pi as controller and some cheap old ASIC and play with it but my honest advice: don't buy any mining gear for thousands of dollars..

95 percent I'm guessing of these threads don't ever lead to a investment. It's like "Here I might spend X amount go do my research".  It does seem he realizes it's hard from other posts.... but now he's going even bigger in calculation. 

Hey guys,

So for example:

Initial investment £206,400 = 300 x S7 miners  = 1419 TH/S = £19918 per month (pm)

£19918 pm - £12214 (bills/rent/broadband pm) = £7704 pm.

SO WITH A £206,400 INVESTMENT, IT STILL TAKES 2.3 YEARS TO GET ROI.

During the 2 years your hardware becomes out of date and you've only broke even, with no profit, then you have to buy new hardware. SO WHAT IS THE POINT? Am I missing something? Perhaps it's only worth it if you invest millions?

So I predict we can leave this thread alone as I don't think OP will invest.

[Vociferous]

I am quite new to this, but I was considering starting a bitcoin mining farm. I was considering investing 16k

dude, if you are interested about bitcoin and new to all this, buy them directly from some reputable exchange.

mining is not for guys like you anymore, unless you are not in China and you don't know ASIC manufacturers. if you really want to mine, buy raspberry pi as controller and some cheap old ASIC and play with it but my honest advice: don't buy any mining gear for thousands of dollars..

Yeh, that's quite true. As I said before, I need to research it more.

[Koamder]

It is quite profitable to mine Ethereum at the moment. But the price is dropping at the moment. Mining is a risky business.

[Vociferous]

I am quite new to this, but I was considering starting a bitcoin mining farm. I was considering investing 16k

dude, if you are interested about bitcoin and new to all this, buy them directly from some reputable exchange.

mining is not for guys like you anymore, unless you are not in China and you don't know ASIC manufacturers. if you really want to mine, buy raspberry pi as controller and some cheap old ASIC and play with it but my honest advice: don't buy any mining gear for thousands of dollars..

95 percent I'm guessing of these threads don't ever lead to a investment. It's like "Here I might spend X amount go do my research".  It does seem he realizes it's hard from other posts.... but now he's going even bigger in calculation. 

Hey guys,

So for example:

Initial investment £206,400 = 300 x S7 miners  = 1419 TH/S = £19918 per month (pm)

£19918 pm - £12214 (bills/rent/broadband pm) = £7704 pm.

SO WITH A £206,400 INVESTMENT, IT STILL TAKES 2.3 YEARS TO GET ROI.

During the 2 years your hardware becomes out of date and you've only broke even, with no profit, then you have to buy new hardware. SO WHAT IS THE POINT? Am I missing something? Perhaps it's only worth it if you invest millions?

So I predict we can leave this thread alone as I don't think OP will invest.

I hate that I can only reply every 30 minutes or something! Anyway, you know nothing Jon Snow! (joking). Yes, it seems small miners to be not profitable. I am still going to draw up a business plan and see if I can get any banks interested though for a large mine. But yeh, I don't think I will invest really.

[notlist3d]

It is quite profitable to mine Ethereum at the moment. But the price is dropping at the moment. Mining is a risky business.

BTC vs Ethereum is like apples and oranges.  BTC is being mined by huge asics, and other is more GPU miner territory I believe.  So your comparing the main currency to a alt.

Yes alt coin's can go up fast, but they can go down just as fast.   Maybe suggest OP to try a few altcoin's for fun.  But I HIGHLY suggest keeping BTC as main currency unless you like risk.

[Amph]

It is quite profitable to mine Ethereum at the moment. But the price is dropping at the moment. Mining is a risky business.

BTC vs Ethereum is like apples and oranges.  BTC is being mined by huge asics, and other is more GPU miner territory I believe.  So your comparing the main currency to a alt.

Yes alt coin's can go up fast, but they can go down just as fast.   Maybe suggest OP to try a few altcoin's for fun.  But I HIGHLY suggest keeping BTC as main currency unless you like risk.

well it's only mining, gpu does not become obsolete like asic, if the alt that you were mined die, for example, you can always re-direct it to another alt(not bitcoin or the one with high diff, but still plenty of choice)

or simply leave the mining scene without any damage on your pocket, because gpu can also be used for gaming

[notlist3d]

It is quite profitable to mine Ethereum at the moment. But the price is dropping at the moment. Mining is a risky business.

BTC vs Ethereum is like apples and oranges.  BTC is being mined by huge asics, and other is more GPU miner territory I believe.  So your comparing the main currency to a alt.

Yes alt coin's can go up fast, but they can go down just as fast.   Maybe suggest OP to try a few altcoin's for fun.  But I HIGHLY suggest keeping BTC as main currency unless you like risk.

well it's only mining, gpu does not become obsolete like asic, if the alt that you were mined die, for example, you cna always re-direct it to another alt(not bitcoin or the one with high diff, but still plenty of choice)

or simply leave the mining scene without any damage on your pocket, because gpu can also be used for gaming

I consider GPU mining dead already.  Most will spend more in electricity then it brings in, so that is not good.  The ones that do profit will not ROI on the card, which again is not good.

So unless you bought card got lucky on coin, and sold cards I don't see a true ROI happening.  Just too pricey on gear for what it makes.

[Beraturker]

Wait for the 16nm Chips..

[notlist3d]

Wait for the 16nm Chips..

Wait for how long?  What will price be on these?  Will smaller miners have to wait for a while to actually get them after big operations?  And how close to having do we have to wait till?

So many questions and no answers.  Waiting till 16nm sounds good but in reality there is just to much unknown to say what is best.  And really some people are always waiting on the next gen, and they never seem to buy. 

[Koamder]

Wait for the 16nm Chips..

I think the price of the 16 nm will be very high. They will be priced slightly better than S7. Even if you can ROI, it will take long time.

[Vociferous]

I literally can only think the only way of breaking even and making profit in a year is to get a business grant, which is non re-payable for a business start up, using that to buy second hand S1's or S5's on Ebay and then installing solar panels for summer and wind turbines for Winter. That's ASSUMING you get full electricity provided by the renewable energy devices and assuming you are not renting the land/property to do it. You would then make approximately 20% profit. hahahahaha. I would consider it, but my dad won't let me put the solar panels on his roof! what a chode!!!!!!

[notlist3d]

I literally can only think the only way of breaking even and making profit in a year is to get a business grant, which is non re-payable for a business start up, using that to buy second hand S1's or S5's on Ebay and then installing solar panels for summer and wind turbines for Winter. That's ASSUMING you get full electricity provided by the renewable energy devices and assuming you are not renting the land/property to do it. You would then make approximately 20% profit. hahahahaha. I would consider it, but my dad won't let me put the solar panels on his roof! what a chode!!!!!!

Solar is to expensive though in most cases.  Look at the price and how it's a drop in the bucket for some hobby miners.   It's just hard to have a lot of watt's of gear let's say even 10k watts.... you have quite the investment in solar.

And this not a quick investment your talking 10+ years likely to pay off if everything runs right.  Which is very long term compared to bitcoin mining.  Some will do solar yes... but that initial cost is hard to do.  Compare it to cheap electricity those with very cheap electricity almost always win.

[Amph]

Wait for the 16nm Chips..

I think the price of the 16 nm will be very high. They will be priced slightly better than S7. Even if you can ROI, it will take long time.

it was the same for s7 it was very high at launch, but there was people willing to buy it at even higher price

so if you can do the same trick of trading directly your miners after a few week of mining before any other, it will be worth it

[notlist3d]

Wait for the 16nm Chips..

I think the price of the 16 nm will be very high. They will be priced slightly better than S7. Even if you can ROI, it will take long time.

it was the same for s7 it was very high at launch, but there was people willing to buy it at even higher price

so if you can do the same trick of trading directly your miners after a few week of mining before any other, it will be worth it

Also depends on where you go with it.  Ebay at start can bring HUGE premiums, but it can have scammers and be a pain.   I was doing great on all my sales of last gen.

But a week later... get the dreaded email they say they cant mine with a S5+.   Had trouble getting a anwser back from them for 3 day's on what was going on.   Not sure what changed but they then said they switched PSU and worked.     But it appeared for a few day's I was going to have to deal with a "bad  buyer"

[Vociferous]

When do you think the S8's will be released? What are the next gen miners? SP50s and S8's?

[Amph]

When do you think the S8's will be released? What are the next gen miners? SP50s and S8's?

there is no info at all about this, nor that it will be called s8, nothing is telling us that they will continue with the next number, in fact the s6 does not exist

based on some other thread it seems that there is the possibility of an increased efficiency of 75%+, 750 watt instead of 1200 for something that is as fast as one s7