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Author Topic: Shouldn't we start using safer keys from now instead of waiting for problems?  (Read 5747 times)
ShadowOfHarbringer
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January 25, 2013, 10:56:22 AM
 #81

EDIT: Wait a minute!

1 Bn (1,000,000,000) times 10,000 is 10,000,000,000,000, or 10 thousand billion , or 10 million million. You would have to have 10 million billion (10,000,000,000,000,000) before you got to a 10 Quadrillion.

Please double-check this, but I think you got an extra set of zeros in yours.

You did it again, you did not read with understanding.

Of course i Have 2 extra zeros in mine, because i counted the pennys !

I did all the counting on a calculator (I don't trust my mind completely as minds are tricky things) so you can be sure my calculations are correct.

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greyhawk
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January 25, 2013, 11:30:35 AM
 #82

I do al my riting wif a kee bored so you you cna be sure my süntex si correkt.
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January 26, 2013, 01:25:34 AM
 #83

EDIT: Wait a minute!

1 Bn (1,000,000,000) times 10,000 is 10,000,000,000,000, or 10 thousand billion , or 10 million million. You would have to have 10 million billion (10,000,000,000,000,000) before you got to a 10 Quadrillion.

Please double-check this, but I think you got an extra set of zeros in yours.

You did it again, you did not read with understanding.

Of course i Have 2 extra zeros in mine, because i counted the pennys !

I did all the counting on a calculator (I don't trust my mind completely as minds are tricky things) so you can be sure my calculations are correct.

Oh, I understood that part just fine, but you don't need enough pennies to cover every bank account on the entire planet, so talking about M2 is a strawman, M1 is much closer and it's almost the same as satoshis, and that's assuming that we would need a penny sized denomination, just like it assumes that nobody would just invent something new/local/different once the supply is too constrained (or maybe even well before then...)

I would appreciate it if you would quit trying to be an asshole, my math was correct.

"...as simple as possible, but no simpler" -AE
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ShadowOfHarbringer
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January 26, 2013, 02:26:55 AM
 #84

Oh, I understood that part just fine, but you don't need enough pennies to cover every bank account on the entire planet, so talking about M2 is a strawman, M1 is much closer and it's almost the same as satoshis, and that's assuming that we would need a penny sized denomination, just like it assumes that nobody would just invent something new/local/different once the supply is too constrained (or maybe even well before then...)

I am trying to predict maximum achievable necessary number of units of currency that the mankind will ever need in case of Bitcoin becomes #1 currency.

So in an (unlikely of course) case that Bitcoin becomes #1 currency and is still used for microtransactions, then we will need at least 500,000,000,000,000,000 total units (500 of US-scale quadrillions) of currency, and currently we have only 21,000,000,000,000,000 (EDIT: which is 21 US scale quadrillions) of satoshis.

To be on the safe side, we should add at least 2 zeroes extra, which makes 10,000,000,000,000,000,000 = 10 sextillions == 10 thousands quadrillions == 10 millions of trillions (all US-scale)

I would appreciate it if you would quit trying to be an asshole, my math was correct.

Oh well sorry, apparently i do that sometimes.
I did not actually realize that this is being an asshole. I will try to adjust assholeness level downwards.

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January 26, 2013, 04:10:25 AM
 #85

Oh well sorry, apparently i do that sometimes.
I did not actually realize that this is being an asshole. I will try to adjust assholeness level downwards.

Thanks, there are enough folks on this forum who don't make an effort.

The answer of 500 Qn that you came up with is a bit odd to me, it does not directly reflect the actual number of currency units, nor does it use them as a basis with a defined inflation formula, it's just a big number.

I think my version of the the real answer might sound a bit Zen, but I'll give it a shot anyhow:
We need as many money units as we need, in the sizes we need.

So if someone invents a market that trades individual hydrogen atoms (cut me in) we will need a massive number of very very small units, interstellar trade would tend to need very large units. But it makes no sense to use a single currency for these very diverse uses, and it certainly is not a likely future. I think we will continue to have more currencies as we find more and more ways to capture and quantify value, and given current trends we are going to be able to quantify a lot of value in the future.

"...as simple as possible, but no simpler" -AE
BTC/TRC/FRC: 1ScrybeSNcjqgpPeYNgvdxANArqoC6i5u Ripple:rf9gutfmGB8CH39W2PCeRbLWMKRauYyVfx LTC:LadmiD6tXq7gFZvMibhFUZegUHKXgbu1Gb
twolifeinexile
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February 23, 2013, 05:37:29 AM
 #86

We can calculate the minimum unit from following algorithm:

Code:
# [Total value] = all Dollars in circulation + Euros in circulation + Yens in circulation + CNY in circulation + all the other currencies
# Convert [Total value] to amount of smallest units/fractions of the earth's cheapest currency (*excluding* internet currencies and currencies of countries with hyperinflation)
# Add one or 2 zeros.
There you have it. The humanity will probably never require more units of Bitcoin than that, even if Bitcoin becomes #1 World currency and everybody on the world starts using Bitcoin instead of other currencies.

Currently, total amount of the smallest units of Bitcoin is 2,100,000,000,000,000 which is just over 2 thousands of trillions (USA scale). Is it enough according to the equation above ? I highly doubt so.
Let me google that for you.... ah, here's a nice chart:
  http://dollardaze.org/blog/?post_id
There is about 5 trillion dollars in currency in the world.
So 2.1 thousand trillion satoshis is PLENTY.

Bitcoin may not only substitute cash currency, may also bank deposit, money market fund. that is really really huge.
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