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Author Topic: 'Send as zero-fee transaction if possible' is misleading and illogical  (Read 934 times)
thelema93
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February 19, 2016, 11:11:44 AM
 #1

I recently sent a transaction using Bitcoin Core 0.11.1

I checked the Recommended fee selection button, but I also ticked the box underneath that says "Send as zero-fee transaction if possible"

BOTH these options are now selected.

This is how my brain interprets what I chose....
'Send the transaction with the recommended fee... OR if somehow possible, send it with no fee - whichever WORKS best.'

Unfortunately I found out it doesn't mean that at all! - The transaction simply gets sent with no fee!

This is illogical and misleading - It is an either-or option, you shouldn't be able to select BOTH of these options at once!

If you select the "Send as zero-fee" - then the other 'Recommended' fee option should be unchecked right!

On top of that - what does that even mean... 'if possible' ?

Personally I think this should be changed as it is very confusing.

It should have 3 options... Recommended, Custom OR zero.
But then again - why even have the zero option as it basically doesn't work anyway.

At least fix the logic error there - it doesn't make sense.

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pedrog
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February 19, 2016, 11:25:28 AM
 #2

You can always send with zero fee but you might end up waiting days for a transaction or even have your transaction dropped.

If you don't want to pay a fee you should check current network usage.

thelema93
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February 19, 2016, 11:40:34 AM
 #3

You can always send with zero fee but you might end up waiting days for a transaction or even have your transaction dropped.

If you don't want to pay a fee you should check current network usage.

yeah I know... my point is they should change the options because they are very confusing and illogical.
I am a software designer and anyone who knows anything about Interaction Design, should understand that this is a bad design.

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February 19, 2016, 11:42:33 AM
 #4

You can always send with zero fee but you might end up waiting days for a transaction or even have your transaction dropped.

If you don't want to pay a fee you should check current network usage.

yeah I know... my point is they should change the options because they are very confusing and illogical.
I am a software designer and anyone who knows anything about Interaction Design, should understand that this is a bad design.

Yap, there's still a lot to improve in wallet design, even "recommended fee" is not reliable.

jaydipmodhwadia
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February 19, 2016, 12:33:37 PM
 #5

You can always send with zero fee but you might end up waiting days for a transaction or even have your transaction dropped.

If you don't want to pay a fee you should check current network usage.

yeah I know... my point is they should change the options because they are very confusing and illogical.
I am a software designer and anyone who knows anything about Interaction Design, should understand that this is a bad design.

Yap, there's still a lot to improve in wallet design, even "recommended fee" is not reliable.

Maybe there should be a "secret" menu where you can change the recommended fee to suit your taste?

Theres such a thing on online wallets nowadays, why not implement that into core?
ranochigo
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February 19, 2016, 01:00:56 PM
 #6

You can always send with zero fee but you might end up waiting days for a transaction or even have your transaction dropped.

If you don't want to pay a fee you should check current network usage.

yeah I know... my point is they should change the options because they are very confusing and illogical.
I am a software designer and anyone who knows anything about Interaction Design, should understand that this is a bad design.

Yap, there's still a lot to improve in wallet design, even "recommended fee" is not reliable.

Maybe there should be a "secret" menu where you can change the recommended fee to suit your taste?

Theres such a thing on online wallets nowadays, why not implement that into core?
Core do have an option for custom fees to be set. Go to send tab and look below. Its in the transaction fee table, just select that option and put a custom fee.

Recommended fee shouldn't be reliable, unless you have great peers and a excellent mempool policy, you are likely to get just somewhere close to an accurate result.

jaydipmodhwadia
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February 19, 2016, 01:43:31 PM
 #7

You can always send with zero fee but you might end up waiting days for a transaction or even have your transaction dropped.

If you don't want to pay a fee you should check current network usage.

yeah I know... my point is they should change the options because they are very confusing and illogical.
I am a software designer and anyone who knows anything about Interaction Design, should understand that this is a bad design.

Yap, there's still a lot to improve in wallet design, even "recommended fee" is not reliable.

Maybe there should be a "secret" menu where you can change the recommended fee to suit your taste?

Theres such a thing on online wallets nowadays, why not implement that into core?
Core do have an option for custom fees to be set. Go to send tab and look below. Its in the transaction fee table, just select that option and put a custom fee.

Recommended fee shouldn't be reliable, unless you have great peers and a excellent mempool policy, you are likely to get just somewhere close to an accurate result.

I know core has already got custom fees, but also I think there should be a thing where it fetches some info from a website and then it changes its recommended fees to suit the current market...
thelema93
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February 19, 2016, 01:57:10 PM
 #8

And also - it should show you the calculated fee BEFORE you click SEND.

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February 19, 2016, 02:11:30 PM
 #9

I recently sent a transaction using Bitcoin Core 0.11.1

I checked the Recommended fee selection button, but I also ticked the box underneath that says "Send as zero-fee transaction if possible"

BOTH these options are now selected.

This is how my brain interprets what I chose....
'Send the transaction with the recommended fee... OR if somehow possible, send it with no fee - whichever WORKS best.'

Unfortunately I found out it doesn't mean that at all! - The transaction simply gets sent with no fee!

This is illogical and misleading - It is an either-or option, you shouldn't be able to select BOTH of these options at once!

If you select the "Send as zero-fee" - then the other 'Recommended' fee option should be unchecked right!

On top of that - what does that even mean... 'if possible' ?

Personally I think this should be changed as it is very confusing.

It should have 3 options... Recommended, Custom OR zero.
But then again - why even have the zero option as it basically doesn't work anyway.

At least fix the logic error there - it doesn't make sense.

 Just because you don't understand it doesn't necessarily mean there is an error in logic.  Keep Calm℠ and read this:

If any of the outputs (including any change) of your transaction are less than 0.01 XBT, then a fee of 0.0001 XBT is required.

 So you see, it is both logical and functional.  Avoid faucets that will load your wallet with dust and you can avoid network fees.  However, keep in mind that network fees are essential to the long-term viability of Bitcoin.
Jet Cash
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February 19, 2016, 04:29:24 PM
 #10


Maybe there should be a "secret" menu where you can change the recommended fee to suit your taste?

Theres such a thing on online wallets nowadays, why not implement that into core?

It's called RBF Smiley

The Jet Cash coffee lounge in the Ivory Tower has had some good relaxing chat recently, just what you would expect.
We need some girls to brighten the conversation though.
achow101
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February 19, 2016, 10:58:25 PM
 #11

I know core has already got custom fees, but also I think there should be a thing where it fetches some info from a website and then it changes its recommended fees to suit the current market...
Why should core check a third party website for the fees? It already has its fee estimating, and if you actually have it run as it is supposed to, I think it is fairly accurate. In order for it to be accurate, you need to let Bitcoin core run for a while so that it receives enough blocks to do an accurate estimate.

And also - it should show you the calculated fee BEFORE you click SEND.
It does show you the recommended fee/kB. If you use the coin control feature, then I think it will also tell you how much you should expect to pay in fees.

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