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Author Topic: Are bitcoins an e-currency?  (Read 2919 times)
Peter Lambert
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January 18, 2013, 10:47:30 PM
 #21

This was a legit legal question yet you guys have derailed it into a childish discussion... amazing..

You should have put it up in the "Legal" section (along with the hundred other threads asking similar questions) ... instead you threw it into the mosh pit. Really, what did you expect?

Bitcoins are nothing ... yet they could be anything. Their ephemeral nature is going to be twisting lawyers, politicians and judges minds into pretzels for decades (that's one of the reasons I luv the tech.  Cheesy ).

First, you need to define what is a "bitcoin"?

Is it the private crypto key?, is it the blockchain ledger entry?, is it the software that looks up the database? or the software that can transfer value between keys?, is it the miners that secure the transactions entries? or etc? ... start there.

Thanks for your input guys!

bitcointalk is starting to resemble 4chan with all the low quality users registering.

Yeah, those low quality users like the person who posted this thread under "Bitcoin Discussion" instead of putting it where it belongs, in "Legal Discussion".

When asking this question, you really need to state which definition you want to use. Are you asking if bitcoins are an electronic currency under some legal definition, or are you asking if Joe Schmoe on the street would call bitcoins an electronic currency? Legal definitions can vary from place to place.

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January 18, 2013, 11:23:09 PM
 #22

e-asset, not currency, no one will use this as currency if the price just double every year

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January 18, 2013, 11:38:53 PM
 #23

The habit of lumping bitcoins with diverse gift card-like systems like Linden Dollars, as the ECB does, is just to confuse, and belittle bitcoin. Bitcoins really is money.

The real gold in that report is the chapter of Reputational Risk (page 45).

"If the use of virtual currency schemes grows considerably, incidents which attract press coverage
could have negative impacts on the reputations of central banks, if the public perceives the
incidents as being caused, in part, by central banks not doing their jobs properly. As a consequence,
this risk should be considered when assessing the overall risk situation of central banks."

Yes, covering their asses is their most important goal. They are not worried about the system itself, only their own reputation.

The report: www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/other/virtualcurrencyschemes201210en.pdf

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January 18, 2013, 11:49:40 PM
 #24

The habit of lumping bitcoins with diverse gift card-like systems like Linden Dollars, as the ECB does, is just to confuse, and belittle bitcoin. Bitcoins really is money.

The real gold in that report is the chapter of Reputational Risk (page 45).

"If the use of virtual currency schemes grows considerably, incidents which attract press coverage
could have negative impacts on the reputations of central banks, if the public perceives the
incidents as being caused, in part, by central banks not doing their jobs properly. As a consequence,
this risk should be considered when assessing the overall risk situation of central banks."

Yes, covering their asses is their most important goal. They are not worried about the system itself, only their own reputation.

The report: www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/other/virtualcurrencyschemes201210en.pdf



Actually, I'd argue that the thrust of the ECB here is a lame attempt to bring bitcoin regulation under their jurisdiction where they have none at all.

They have as much jurisdiction over bitcoin as they have over tribes in outer-mongolia trading shiny stones, that is the reality that they hate.

ECB, and any central banks, have their Monopoly monies to experiment wildly with, we have ours .... just quietly, eff off.

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January 27, 2013, 12:29:07 PM
 #25

According to Australian legislation Bitcoin does not fit the definition of e-currency:

From AUSTRAC's website: http://www.austrac.gov.au/threshold_transactions.html

Quote
'E-currency' is an electronic form of currency which is backed by precious metal or bullion.

The actual legislation (AML/CTF 2006 Act) reads:
Quote
e-currency means an internet-based, electronic means of exchange that is:
(a) known as any of the following: (i) e-currency;
(ii) e-money;
(iii) digital currency;
(iv) a name specified in the AML/CTF Rules; and
(b) backed either directly or indirectly by: (i) precious metal; or
(iii) a thing of a kind prescribed by the AML/CTF Rules; and
(c) not issued by or under the authority of a government body;
and includes anything that, under the regulations, is taken to be e-currency for the purposes of this Act.

From reading through the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006 there is no thing specifically prescribing Bitcoin as an electronic currency as far as I can tell. All the wording relates to people transferring fixed value money between institutions.

I'm sure this legislation will be up for review soon though.

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madmadmax
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January 27, 2013, 03:20:35 PM
 #26

The habit of lumping bitcoins with diverse gift card-like systems like Linden Dollars, as the ECB does, is just to confuse, and belittle bitcoin. Bitcoins really is money.

The real gold in that report is the chapter of Reputational Risk (page 45).

"If the use of virtual currency schemes grows considerably, incidents which attract press coverage
could have negative impacts on the reputations of central banks, if the public perceives the
incidents as being caused, in part, by central banks not doing their jobs properly. As a consequence,
this risk should be considered when assessing the overall risk situation of central banks."

Yes, covering their asses is their most important goal. They are not worried about the system itself, only their own reputation.

The report: www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/other/virtualcurrencyschemes201210en.pdf



Actually, I'd argue that the thrust of the ECB here is a lame attempt to bring bitcoin regulation under their jurisdiction where they have none at all.

They have as much jurisdiction over bitcoin as they have over tribes in outer-mongolia trading shiny stones, that is the reality that they hate.

ECB, and any central banks, have their Monopoly monies to experiment wildly with, we have ours .... just quietly, eff off.
According to Australian legislation Bitcoin does not fit the definition of e-currency:

From AUSTRAC's website: http://www.austrac.gov.au/threshold_transactions.html

Quote
'E-currency' is an electronic form of currency which is backed by precious metal or bullion.

The actual legislation (AML/CTF 2006 Act) reads:
Quote
e-currency means an internet-based, electronic means of exchange that is:
(a) known as any of the following: (i) e-currency;
(ii) e-money;
(iii) digital currency;
(iv) a name specified in the AML/CTF Rules; and
(b) backed either directly or indirectly by: (i) precious metal; or
(iii) a thing of a kind prescribed by the AML/CTF Rules; and
(c) not issued by or under the authority of a government body;
and includes anything that, under the regulations, is taken to be e-currency for the purposes of this Act.

From reading through the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006 there is no thing specifically prescribing Bitcoin as an electronic currency as far as I can tell. All the wording relates to people transferring fixed value money between institutions.

I'm sure this legislation will be up for review soon though.

Thanks guys, you really are great  Wink








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