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Author Topic: Are bitcoins an e-currency?  (Read 2915 times)
madmadmax
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January 18, 2013, 03:11:42 PM
 #1

Would you even define it as an e-currency instead of virtual property? Since you are holding virtual valuables which you sell the same way Call of Duty is being sold on Steam?








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SlickTheNick
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January 18, 2013, 03:20:20 PM
 #2

e-currency sounds lame... how about just.. currency?

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January 18, 2013, 03:25:53 PM
 #3

I thought we stettled up on "magical internet money" already. Smiley
madmadmax
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January 18, 2013, 03:35:38 PM
 #4

e-currency sounds lame... how about just.. currency?

Ok let me rephrase that, if a bank decides to reverse the payment in claim of you selling ecurrencies can you take them to court and hope to hold them accountable of paying you the damages not taking into account the likeliness of the ignorance of the judge about the technical aspect and the probability of him raising an eyebrow?








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siesatsu
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January 18, 2013, 03:38:27 PM
 #5

e-currency sounds lame... how about just.. currency?

Lol, This.

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January 18, 2013, 03:40:17 PM
 #6

Would you even define it as an e-currency instead of virtual property? Since you are holding virtual valuables which you sell the same way Call of Duty is being sold on Steam?
In Europe Bitcoins can be defined as virtual currency (I'm not even sure it has a legal definition), but they do not fall in the definition of electronic currency as electronic currency must represent a claim on the issuer expressed in fiat.

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January 18, 2013, 04:52:02 PM
 #7

Internet points. Now you really can win "2 internets."
hazek
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January 18, 2013, 05:06:05 PM
 #8

Internet points. Now you really can win "2 internets."

Yep, that is really the closest to what bitcoins actually are. Just points on a scale from 0 to just under 2,1 quadrillion.

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21after2
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January 18, 2013, 05:08:08 PM
 #9

I thought we stettled up on "magical internet money" already. Smiley

I suggest we amend it to "magical intarwebz monies."
madmadmax
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January 18, 2013, 06:08:34 PM
 #10

This was a legit legal question yet you guys have derailed it into a childish discussion... amazing..








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paraipan
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January 18, 2013, 06:15:38 PM
 #11

This was a legit legal question yet you guys have derailed it into a childish discussion... amazing..


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evolve
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January 18, 2013, 06:19:50 PM
 #12

I think bitcoin falls under whatever classification you give to wow gold, linden dollars, or eve isk....IMO, its virtual property that is being used as a currency.

Magic internet money works too.
QuantumKiwi
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January 18, 2013, 06:22:22 PM
 #13

Maybe its called a cryptocurrency for a reason?

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paraipan
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January 18, 2013, 06:24:04 PM
 #14

I think bitcoin falls under whatever classification you give to wow gold, linden dollars, or eve isk....IMO, its virtual property that is being used as a currency.

Magic internet money works too.

Quite wrong thinking you got there, here, have some resources to read before getting a shot at it.


http://blog.bitinstant.com/blog/2012/10/30/the-ecb-report-on-bitcoin-and-virtual-currencies.html

http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/14971234703/coinlab-bitcoin-primer

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January 18, 2013, 06:34:35 PM
 #15

Its not wrong, its simply a difference of opinion (the ECB's opinion doesn't represent the "whole of the law").  Other countries may not follow/agree with the ECB's report, and the ECB (in my opinion) likely ruled that way to protect thier ability to regulate it if it is deemed necessary (basically, just being proactive). The jury is far from in on how the banking communities and governments across the world are going to treat it.

That said, i still think BTC has more in common with ISK or something than a virtual version of the euro or usd.
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January 18, 2013, 07:17:37 PM
 #16

I consider bitcoin as digital gold. Is gold a currency? No.
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January 18, 2013, 07:32:16 PM
 #17

I consider it a currency. If you go for something official though, the BAFIN (German bank regulation) defines Bitcoin as electronic instrument of payment or units of value, but states that it does not qualify as e-money.

Also they state in the same sentence that it's legal to use them as payment for goods and services(just adding)


http://www.bafin.de/SharedDocs/Veroeffentlichungen/DE/Merkblatt/mb_111222_zag.html

Quote from: English translation (rough)
Units of Value intended to function as currency that can be exchanged against real benefits, goods or services or that f.e. Bitcoin, can be created in computer networks ar not classified as E-Money, even if they serve the same economical Funktions as E-Money. [snip]

A permission to create and use this Units of Value as currency is not required. If this Units become a commercial subject themselves the business has to qualify as Bank account as for § 1 Abs. 1 Satz 2 Nrn. 4 or 10 KWG or Financial Service Provider as for § 1 Abs. 1a Satz 2 Nrn. 1 - 4 KWG and operates under reservation of § 32 Abs. 1 KWG 

Hope this helps.



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January 18, 2013, 07:55:24 PM
 #18

Ok let me rephrase that, if a bank decides to reverse the payment in claim of you selling ecurrencies can you take them to court and hope to hold them accountable of paying you the damages not taking into account the likeliness of the ignorance of the judge about the technical aspect and the probability of him raising an eyebrow?

You are looking for an opinion in the wrong place. The users of bitcointalk most likely won't define Bitcoin in the same manner as a court of law.

This sounds about right.
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January 18, 2013, 08:45:39 PM
 #19

This was a legit legal question yet you guys have derailed it into a childish discussion... amazing..

You should have put it up in the "Legal" section (along with the hundred other threads asking similar questions) ... instead you threw it into the mosh pit. Really, what did you expect?

Bitcoins are nothing ... yet they could be anything. Their ephemeral nature is going to be twisting lawyers, politicians and judges minds into pretzels for decades (that's one of the reasons I luv the tech.  Cheesy ).

First, you need to define what is a "bitcoin"?

Is it the private crypto key?, is it the blockchain ledger entry?, is it the software that looks up the database? or the software that can transfer value between keys?, is it the miners that secure the transactions entries? or etc? ... start there.

madmadmax
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January 18, 2013, 10:38:09 PM
 #20

This was a legit legal question yet you guys have derailed it into a childish discussion... amazing..

You should have put it up in the "Legal" section (along with the hundred other threads asking similar questions) ... instead you threw it into the mosh pit. Really, what did you expect?

Bitcoins are nothing ... yet they could be anything. Their ephemeral nature is going to be twisting lawyers, politicians and judges minds into pretzels for decades (that's one of the reasons I luv the tech.  Cheesy ).

First, you need to define what is a "bitcoin"?

Is it the private crypto key?, is it the blockchain ledger entry?, is it the software that looks up the database? or the software that can transfer value between keys?, is it the miners that secure the transactions entries? or etc? ... start there.

Thanks for your input guys!

bitcointalk is starting to resemble 4chan with all the low quality users registering.








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Infinitly Scalable
Blockchain Technology
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State-Channels



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