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Author Topic: MegaBigPower.com - Managed Hosted Mining  (Read 7608 times)
Bogart
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January 20, 2013, 09:35:42 PM
 #21

To do it right, you ought to have:
 * Redundant internet connections to 2 or 3 different providers, ideally each using a different technology (cable, DSL, and fiber for instance).  These should be business-class managed connections with SLAs.  The kind where they call you when it goes down, usually within a minute.
 * Redundant cooling.  2 separate air conditioning systems, each one able to manage the full cooling load on its own, even on a hot day.  Plan for room to grow.
 * Redundant power feeds.  Connections to 2 different power providers.
 * Redundant standby generators, each one able to manage the full load of the equipment *and the cooling* and everything else on its own.  I would use 2 diverse fuel types, probably one Diesel and one propane/nat gas.  The gensets should be periodically tested, and of course maintained.  Plan for room to grow.
 * A UPS to condition the power, and keep everything from rebooting when grid power fails and the genset is still starting up.  It's OK if the air conditioning is not UPS-backed.

You'll need a lot of other things too, but those are some big ones.

You'll need a lot of interior wiring and load centers and such for power distribution.  If I were you I'd try and use 240V circuits to power everything whose power supply can accept it, for efficiency's sake.  Having the ability to remotely and/or programmatically power-cycle the circuits/outlets would be nice to have too.

You yourself should be redundant.  You should have a trusted partner who has full access and can do everything you can, in case something needs to be done and you're unavailable.

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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January 20, 2013, 11:04:07 PM
 #22

Hold on,he said something about a rollup door :

"Facility is cardkey access, armored locks.  My space does have a roll up door and I need to check that it is heavy duty.   Security with monitoring 24 x 7.  I understand there will be a million bucks worth of other people's hardware in there and that their uninterrupted revenue generation is my top priority - including optimizing performance."

Is this in a Storage unit facility  Huh

Cardkey access


Security camera's

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan Smiley
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January 20, 2013, 11:11:41 PM
 #23

Hold on,he said something about a rollup door :

"Facility is cardkey access, armored locks.  My space does have a roll up door and I need to check that it is heavy duty.   Security with monitoring 24 x 7.  I understand there will be a million bucks worth of other people's hardware in there and that their uninterrupted revenue generation is my top priority - including optimizing performance."

Is this in a Storage unit facility  Huh

Cardkey access


Security camera's


If he is seriously anticipating being able to serve upwards of $1Mil USD worth of ASIC customers, back of the envelope calculations put that @ 750A, something absolutely no storage facility would ever come close to providing (typically they are wired for enough power for some lightbulbs and cameras). Even starting small with 1/10th of that I don't believe would be possible at most conventional storage facilities.

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January 20, 2013, 11:15:40 PM
 #24



If he is seriously anticipating being able to serve upwards of $1Mil USD worth of ASIC customers, back of the envelope calculations put that @ 750A, something absolutely no storage facility would ever come close to providing (typically they are wired for enough power for some lightbulbs and cameras). Even starting small with 1/10th of that I don't believe would be possible at most conventional storage facilities.



Exactly the point of my post,I think he meant an industrial center type setting  Wink

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan Smiley
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January 20, 2013, 11:23:54 PM
 #25

$1m in Avalons at 400W ea == ~ 300kW.

$1m in BFL Singles at 60W ea == ~ 46kW.

Add in cooling and you can maybe double that.

So yeah, in all cases, more than most homes are wired for.

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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January 20, 2013, 11:24:59 PM
 #26



If he is seriously anticipating being able to serve upwards of $1Mil USD worth of ASIC customers, back of the envelope calculations put that @ 750A, something absolutely no storage facility would ever come close to providing (typically they are wired for enough power for some lightbulbs and cameras). Even starting small with 1/10th of that I don't believe would be possible at most conventional storage facilities.



Exactly the point of my post,I think he meant an industrial center type setting  Wink

I was thinking something like http://www.iodatacenters.com/
But the secret sauce is always in the location, so who knows. It's part of why I don't want to have to get my own industrial power hookup.
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January 20, 2013, 11:48:41 PM
 #27

It would probably be helpful if you stated which recognised data centre security standards you intend meeting.  It's obviously not realistic to expect that you could offer the same level of security as facilities such as those used by financial service providers or that you need to do so.  It's going to be cheaper to cover some risks via insurance.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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January 21, 2013, 12:03:31 AM
 #28

* A UPS to condition the power, and keep everything from rebooting when grid power fails and the genset is still starting up.   It's OK if the air conditioning is not UPS-backed.
What's the value proposition of that requirement? To me it looks like something to attract obsesive-compulsive nutbags or completely clueless newbies.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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January 21, 2013, 12:19:25 AM
 #29

@ Dave

There are alternatives to multiton CRACs

http://www.blackbox.com/resource/genPDF/White-Papers/EXTENDING-THE-LIFE-OF-YOUR-DATA-CENTER.pdf


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Bogart
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January 21, 2013, 12:21:12 AM
 #30

* A UPS to condition the power, and keep everything from rebooting when grid power fails and the genset is still starting up.   It's OK if the air conditioning is not UPS-backed.
What's the value proposition of that requirement? To me it looks like something to attract obsesive-compulsive nutbags or completely clueless newbies.


Mostly in the conditioning of the power.  I suppose for mining it's not really a big deal if things reboot, though I imagine a select few critical systems ought to still be UPS'd.

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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January 21, 2013, 12:26:25 AM
 #31


There's even this radical-looking submerged liquid cooling solution:

http://www.grcooling.com/liquid-cooling-in-the-data-center/

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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January 21, 2013, 12:57:29 AM
 #32

In the GPU mining threads many people have shown that the way to get best hash/dollar is not by esotheric cooling but by underclocking and undervolting to meet the available thermal budget.

So again, marketing to the OCD and newbie crowds.

Oh, on by the way: BlackBox is a recognized brand name with long history in marketing network stuff to newbies. So anyone who feels themselves persuaded by their glossy marketing collateral should maybe adjust their self-awareness appropriately. I'm not going to generally diss BlackBox, because their marketing materials are top notch and may serve as an usefull reference for "maximum non-insane prices".

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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January 21, 2013, 05:20:10 AM
 #33

It's under 3 cents a kw in my county. I've considered doing the same thing, but without renting a large facility with proper cooling its unrealistic. Doing it on a small scale would be easy enough though, once you have to rent something to house excess units it would take a whole lot to cover rental costs. If we never moved away from using gpu's a lot of people would do this kind of thing.

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January 21, 2013, 10:32:11 PM
 #34

I'm curious if Washington has low enough summer ambient temperatures such that you could filter outside air for particulates and use it as your cold-air. It looks like Seattle averages highs in the 70s during the summer. Drop your average electricity costs at the risk of having to throttle back during June and July. Would be a neat solution.
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January 22, 2013, 08:08:13 PM
 #35

To do it right, you ought to have:
 * Redundant internet connections to 2 or 3 different providers, ideally each using a different technology (cable, DSL, and fiber for instance).  These should be business-class managed connections with SLAs.  The kind where they call you when it goes down, usually within a minute.
 * Redundant cooling.  2 separate air conditioning systems, each one able to manage the full cooling load on its own, even on a hot day.  Plan for room to grow.
 * Redundant power feeds.  Connections to 2 different power providers.
 * Redundant standby generators, each one able to manage the full load of the equipment *and the cooling* and everything else on its own.  I would use 2 diverse fuel types, probably one Diesel and one propane/nat gas.  The gensets should be periodically tested, and of course maintained.  Plan for room to grow.
 * A UPS to condition the power, and keep everything from rebooting when grid power fails and the genset is still starting up.  It's OK if the air conditioning is not UPS-backed.

You'll need a lot of other things too, but those are some big ones.

You'll need a lot of interior wiring and load centers and such for power distribution.  If I were you I'd try and use 240V circuits to power everything whose power supply can accept it, for efficiency's sake.  Having the ability to remotely and/or programmatically power-cycle the circuits/outlets would be nice to have too.

You yourself should be redundant.  You should have a trusted partner who has full access and can do everything you can, in case something needs to be done and you're unavailable.

Thanks Bogart - great suggestions here.  I'll be honest - some of this redundancy fits my business plan, but not all of it.  For example getting redundant power feeds at upwards of 800A service is not in the cards - I don't think there's even another power provider in this city.  I plan to have one power service and one backup generator - but getting a backup generator that can supply full load is also going to be a trick. 


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January 22, 2013, 09:07:16 PM
 #36

To do it right, you ought to have:
 * Redundant internet connections to 2 or 3 different providers, ideally each using a different technology (cable, DSL, and fiber for instance).  These should be business-class managed connections with SLAs.  The kind where they call you when it goes down, usually within a minute.
 * Redundant cooling.  2 separate air conditioning systems, each one able to manage the full cooling load on its own, even on a hot day.  Plan for room to grow.
 * Redundant power feeds.  Connections to 2 different power providers.
 * Redundant standby generators, each one able to manage the full load of the equipment *and the cooling* and everything else on its own.  I would use 2 diverse fuel types, probably one Diesel and one propane/nat gas.  The gensets should be periodically tested, and of course maintained.  Plan for room to grow.
 * A UPS to condition the power, and keep everything from rebooting when grid power fails and the genset is still starting up.  It's OK if the air conditioning is not UPS-backed.

You'll need a lot of other things too, but those are some big ones.

You'll need a lot of interior wiring and load centers and such for power distribution.  If I were you I'd try and use 240V circuits to power everything whose power supply can accept it, for efficiency's sake.  Having the ability to remotely and/or programmatically power-cycle the circuits/outlets would be nice to have too.

You yourself should be redundant.  You should have a trusted partner who has full access and can do everything you can, in case something needs to be done and you're unavailable.

Thanks Bogart - great suggestions here.  I'll be honest - some of this redundancy fits my business plan, but not all of it.  For example getting redundant power feeds at upwards of 800A service is not in the cards - I don't think there's even another power provider in this city.  I plan to have one power service and one backup generator - but getting a backup generator that can supply full load is also going to be a trick.

For 200kW you'll probably be looking at 6-cyl turbocharged Diesels with liquid cooling.  Dry weight will be 1.5-2.5 tons.  I'd expect to pay at least $20k for a used one.

A transfer switch for that kind of load won't be cheap either.

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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January 23, 2013, 03:40:47 AM
 #37

IMHO it is a complete waste of money and time to set up redundant power for a mining operation. I mean do the math, people.

A miner shouldn't care if he is down 1 day every year due to power outages. That's only a downtime of 0.27% therefore a 0.27% loss of your yearly mining profits... This is not like a high-traffic e-commerce website where a downtime of 1 day during the christmas season would cost you a bigger percentage of your revenues.
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January 23, 2013, 03:28:00 PM
 #38

IMHO it is a complete waste of money and time to set up redundant power for a mining operation. I mean do the math, people.

A miner shouldn't care if he is down 1 day every year due to power outages. That's only a downtime of 0.27% therefore a 0.27% loss of your yearly mining profits... This is not like a high-traffic e-commerce website where a downtime of 1 day during the christmas season would cost you a bigger percentage of your revenues.

So, let's do the math, since math is fun. Even if BTC price were $20 and Dave hosted a full 5% of the network, a full 24 hour day of power outage would cost miners $3600. With a more reasonable 2% of the network hosted, even at $25/BTC a full day of downtime would only be a cost of $1800.

At 2% of the network and $25/BTC, you could be without power for one week a year and it would only cost you $12,600. That's not chump change, but you'd need a lot of downtime to justify the generator. That's without even looking into how profitable running the generator is. You pay low rates for power, but a diesel generator is considerably more expensive per kWh to run. Even if the generator was free, you might want to look into what the costs are for providing the backup power and whether it would just be cheaper to buy coins to compensate for lost revenue. You might find you're close to break even on diesel power once the network catches up to ASICs.

Edit: Not exactly the world's greatest source, but I'm sitting in a waiting room and research on a phone sucks. Wikipedia says a modern diesel genset will consume about 0.28-0.4 litres/kWh, so say 0.08 US gallons (0.3l) per kWh. At an average of US$4/gallon, your cost just in fuel to run on the generator would be $0.32/kWh.
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January 26, 2013, 03:56:26 PM
 #39

lol, I guess this idea is shot down now since btcfpga will not be delivering products at all.
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January 27, 2013, 11:46:58 AM
 #40

lol, I guess this idea is shot down now since btcfpga will not be delivering products at all.

He's hosting devices from any manufacturer.
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