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Author Topic: Plugin for selling BTC's?  (Read 1183 times)
danster82
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January 21, 2013, 01:24:40 PM
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Im trying to find something that will allow me to sell bitcoins, I have searched all the wordpress plugins and all the ecommerce software that supports Bitcoins but its all designed for accepting bitcoins as payments and not selling.

If I knew how to code I think it would be pretty simple, I would just need to create a shopping cart that fetches exchange rate data from mtgox for example and then multiply that value by the quantity entered and then allow payment by google checkout or somthing.

Does anyone know if anything like this available anywhere?

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DeathAndTaxes
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January 21, 2013, 01:41:46 PM
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No and the reason is it would be best named the "how to go bankrupt in 30 days or less".  CC are easily reversible.  No I don't mean elite identity theft organized crime ring could do it I mean your grandmother could do it with nothing more than access to a phone call and willingness to lie to the credit card company.

"There is this charge for $xxx to yyyy on zz/zz/zzzz.  I didn't make it."
funds reversed.  you lose.
danster82
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January 21, 2013, 01:47:07 PM
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But theres still a legal standpoint meaning if someone makes a chargeback they have to prove their claim, also what if all funds where converted into BTC's as soon as they were recieved? but regardless im not interested in the issue of chargebacks I just want to know if theres anything available for letting people sell BTC's.
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Gerald Davis


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January 21, 2013, 01:55:45 PM
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" but regardless im not interested in the issue of chargebacks I just want to know if theres anything available for letting people sell BTC's."

Same reason there isn't a wordpress plugin which allows you to randomly corrupt files on your webserver or a plugin which will randomly punch the operator in the nuts.  There isn't much of a market in building things which ruin the user.


 Your belief that the legal process will protect you in the event of a chargeback is horribly naive.  The person making the chargeback doesn't have to PROVE anything.  You have to prove the customer's claim is wrong and prove to the standard accepted by the credit card issuer.  Note the credit card issuer, meaning the customer is THEIR customer.    You honestly think credit card companies care that you claim to have lost digital monopoly tokens.   The chargeback process is a rubber stamp.  Your chances of winning a dispute involving digital goods are roughly 0%.  

Can you sell BTC using reversible funding methods like CC?  Sure.  But it is very very risky and it can't be made easy enough for anyone without skill to do it via a plugin.  That is just a recipe for disaster.  The fact that you want to ignore this huge risk likely means the lack of a plugin will end up saving you lots of money.
danster82
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January 21, 2013, 02:02:10 PM
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" but regardless im not interested in the issue of chargebacks I just want to know if theres anything available for letting people sell BTC's."

Same reason there isn't a wordpress plugin which allows you to randomly corrupt files on your webserver.   Not being interested in the issue of chargebacks is horribly naive.  Bitcoins can never be reversed.  It is pathetically easy to reverse a digital transaction.  Take however easy you think it is and it really is 100x easier.   A brain dead chip could steal from you day in and day out with a plugin like you are asking.

If you want to accept reversible funds for irreversible funds then you should do the heavy lifting yourself and hopefully in the process realize how horribly risky and likely unprofitable it will be.   It seems you want an "easy button" which would merely be an easy button for losing money. 

DeathandTaxes other peoples risk is none of your business so will you go away now please? I'm not interested in your opinion of chargebacks, im asking about functionality only, if you've got nothing to add dont add nothing, its ok.
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Gerald Davis


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January 21, 2013, 02:04:41 PM
 #6

Sure.  However I already answered the question.  No such plugin exists.
danster82
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January 21, 2013, 02:19:57 PM
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Over the past number of years, I've seen literally hundreds of people try to do this, set up businesses that accept reversible payment methods (like PayPal, Google checkout, Skrill) for irreversible Bitcoins, and it never ever ever ever worked out well for the owner. There is a reason this plugin doesn't exist and that there are no sites that offer this.

People have tried thousands of different methods to do this, sending the privkey for the bitcoins in the mail, ID verification etc etc and it NEVER worked out. Its extremely easy to purchase CC details nowadays and your site will become a target for fraudsters in a matter of hours, nevermind the fact that anyone can use their own CC and dispute the charges and win every single time.

No. converting the funds to BTC instantly won't work, how are you going to do this? even if you do manage to do this you'll see debt collectors from the payment proccessor knocking at your door looking for the money.

PS. I've previously worked for a large payment processor (not PayPal) and I can tell you straight up doing this will ruin you. You may as well just send me all your BTC for no reason, you'd probably have a better chance of getting some of it back than doing this.

I work in law and its not as simple as you say, Yes the chargeback is extremly easy to make initially as its nothing more than a claim but if someone makes a chargeback its afterwards they have a proof of claim to fullfill that they didnt receive delivery.
Proof of delivery will be in the terms that the address supplied recorded the receipt in the blockchain, (therefore your establishing a private contract prior to sale) this is already agreed to and documented for any record needed in court.

How is the shipping of products in general retail sales reversible?
c4n10
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January 21, 2013, 09:46:53 PM
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The point that DeathAndTaxes is trying to make (although being a DICK about it) is that there plenty of scammers in the Bitcoin community.

This woud not work for the same reason that selling BTC for PayPal does not work. Yes, you will have a fair percentage of honest transactions which will happen without incident, BUT there are so many scammers out there that once they have found a loop-hole (like chargebacks) they will take advantage of it.

The more advanced scammers will even go so far as to have disposable CC accounts created using someone else's personal information and a fake id they made in photoshop and they will use these accounts to buy as much BTC as possible as quickly as possible and then immediately call the CC company and report the card as stolen. They may even do this 2 or 3 times with the same card until the company catches on, then they move on to their next disposable CC account, rinse and repeat as the scammers currently do with PayPal.

Meanwhile, on your end the BTC are being sold and then the chargebacks happen and there's no way to get your BTC back, even if you find the scammer and take them to court. Provided you do find the scammers, you will go bankrupt trying to prosecute them and recover any assets.

This risk can not be eliminated, but it could be minimized if you were to make all incoming funds unavailable for use for a holding period until the grace period for chargebacks has expired (90 days to 6 months for most Credit Cards and banks).
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BCJ


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January 21, 2013, 10:04:48 PM
 #9

Credit Cards can charge back up 180 days after delivery of project.
c4n10
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January 21, 2013, 10:07:10 PM
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Credit Cards can charge back up 180 days after delivery of project.

I did say 90 days to 6 months... 6 months x 30 days per month = 180 days...
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January 21, 2013, 10:19:45 PM
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Credit Cards can charge back up 180 days after delivery of project.

I did say 90 days to 6 months... 6 months x 30 days per month = 180 days...

I don't know of any credit card that prevents charge backs after 90 days.  180 days it standard.
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January 21, 2013, 10:20:42 PM
 #12

OP.

What is your website?
c4n10
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January 21, 2013, 10:24:04 PM
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I don't know of any credit card that prevents charge backs after 90 days.  180 days it standard.

I'll just leave this here: http://oag.ca.gov/consumers/general/credit_card_chargeback_rights

Also, note here you only have 60 days... Not even 90...
BradZimdack
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January 21, 2013, 10:26:38 PM
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Credit Cards can charge back up 180 days after delivery of project.

I did say 90 days to 6 months... 6 months x 30 days per month = 180 days...

I don't know of any credit card that prevents charge backs after 90 days.  180 days it standard.

We have, on occasion, received chargebacks a full year after the purchase was made.  Most do come in within the first six months, but the credit card companies will certainly allow chargebacks well beyond that.
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January 21, 2013, 10:28:52 PM
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BradZimdack

Never head that before.  Interesting.

c4n10 you site "billing errors."   In the case of fraud, or other unauthorized use it sounds like it could be up to a year!
c4n10
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January 21, 2013, 10:31:20 PM
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We have, on occasion, received chargebacks a full year after the purchase was made.  Most do come in within the first six months, but the credit card companies will certainly allow chargebacks well beyond that.

That's really only in extreme circumstances (hence the reason why I said "the risk can not be eliminated"), 180 days is a safe (although impractical) number to reliably use for these purposes.
c4n10
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January 21, 2013, 10:39:29 PM
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BradZimdack

Never head that before.  Interesting.

c4n10 you site "billing errors."   In the case of fraud, or other unauthorized use it sounds like it could be up to a year!

Chargebacks are chargebacks. The same rules apply either way. You think they would let you claim stolen card or credit card fraud after a year...?

If you notice fraudulent charges on your card you have an immediate obligation to notify the bank/cc company. In fact, in the U.S. if you do not report credit card fraud within the first 60 days, you may be held liable for any and all charges made to the account.
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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January 24, 2013, 03:30:03 AM
 #18

c4n10 did you even read your own link?  It is a really good resource, you found it and then it looks like you ignored it.  There are two classes of chargebacks.  One is 60 days from the date of the billing statement (which could be up to 90 days from the purchase).  The second class is 365 days from the date of the billing statement.  It is right there in your own link.   Also those are the minimum required by federal law, nothing prohibits credit card issuers from allowing chargebacks beyond that.  Many credit card issuers allow more generous terms or are willing to waive the limits if a customer just misses the cutoff.  Why?  Their customer is the person doing a chargeback.  The last thing they want is Joe Consumer to feel "ripped off" and transfer his balance (and all those never ending interest payments) to a "fairer" card, especially not the kind of consumer who has a good job, racks up a huge balance, makes the min payment on time each month, and simply revolves it until he/she dies.  They give two flying craps about the poor merchant getting slammed with bogus charges.

The point is to be safe you need to wait at least 90 days and even that doesn't guarantee it.  Now the reality is most scammers are going to do a chargeback pretty quick probably within days (maybe a week if they want to hit a site multiple times first), however in the case of truly stolen cards most of the time the victim isn't going to notice until after they get the statement and get around to reading it so say 30-45 days after the purchase.  
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