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Question: Do you agree to replace long prison sentences to this kind of penalty?
Yes - 6 (60%)
No - 4 (40%)
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Author Topic: Revocation of the citizenship and exile as a punishment  (Read 804 times)
giantdragon
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February 26, 2016, 05:49:33 AM
 #1

The idea is to strip-off citizenship from the convicted felon instead of putting him in prison. Government of his home country can sign a contract with one of the poorest states in the world (Burundi, Malawi, Liberia etc), so in exchange for some monetary compensation the poor country would grant him a citizenship, then his home country will revoke his nationality and expel convict to the poor state.

Compensation for the poor country will be order of magnitude lower than costs keeping him in prison, but deterring effect much stronger than prison time because most people would choose to spend some time in US or EU prison instead of spending rest of life in Sub-Saharan Africa!
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February 26, 2016, 05:54:45 AM
 #2

The idea is to strip-off citizenship from the convicted felon instead of putting him in prison. Government of his home country can sign a contract with one of the poorest states in the world (Burundi, Malawi, Liberia etc), so in exchange for some monetary compensation the poor country would grant him a citizenship, then his home country will revoke his nationality and expel convict to the poor state.

Compensation for the poor country will be order of magnitude lower than costs keeping him in prison, but deterring effect much stronger than prison time because most people would choose to spend some time in US or EU prison instead of spending rest of life in Sub-Saharan Africa!

What makes you think they will not be back on the streets of your town in a matter of months?  Criminals can buy fake passports and re-enter your country.  Do you think they care if you strip them of citizenship?  They are criminals they don't give a shit about the paperwork or the laws.
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February 26, 2016, 06:10:15 AM
 #3

What makes you think they will not be back on the streets of your town in a matter of months?  Criminals can buy fake passports and re-enter your country.  Do you think they care if you strip them of citizenship?  They are criminals they don't give a shit about the paperwork or the laws.

100% correct. As long as the borders are not secure, this idea simply can't be put in to practice. Right now, almost anyone can travel to any of the European Union member nations, and reside there.

Also, I don't support the idea of letting the convict walk free, after committing heinous crimes. This will encourage other criminally minded people to commit similar offenses.

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February 26, 2016, 08:04:06 AM
 #4

Where do you plan to exile them to?  Australia?  UK already tried that...

What country wants a bunch of reject criminals?

bryant.coleman
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February 26, 2016, 08:31:16 AM
 #5

This news just came in from the United Kingdom. They are stripping the citizenship of Muslim pedophiles, who abused kids in Rotherham and London. These guys will be deported to Pakistan:

http://news.sky.com/story/1648898/rotherham-abusers-could-lose-uk-citizenship

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3465018/Asian-sex-abusers-stripped-UK-citizenship-deported-new-drive-broaden-anti-terror-powers.html

Quote
Powers created to deport terrorists are being used to remove members of Asian child sex grooming gangs with dual nationalities under a new effort by the Home Office. Home Secretary Theresa May plans to significantly increase the withdrawal of British citizenship for serious criminals with dual nationality, Whitehall sources told The Independent. According to senior Home Office sources, there is likely to be an 'acceleration of passport strike-outs and potential deportations'. The announcement follows the uncovering of a series of Asian sex abuse gangs across the country in recent years. Rochdale child sex grooming gang ringleader Shabir Ahmed is the first such paedophile to be subjected to Mrs May's new approach.

For the first time ever, I agree with chairwoman Theresa Mao!

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giantdragon
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February 26, 2016, 03:28:11 PM
 #6

What makes you think they will not be back on the streets of your town in a matter of months?  
I think people in these poor countries will be very happy to see these criminals on streets for having electricity and fresh water in their homes.

Criminals can buy fake passports and re-enter your country.  Do you think they care if you strip them of citizenship?  They are criminals they don't give a shit about the paperwork or the laws.
And they be able to change their DNA or retina?!

Right now, almost anyone can travel to any of the European Union member nations, and reside there.
From what time Sub-Saharan African countries entered the EU?!

Also, I don't support the idea of letting the convict walk free, after committing heinous crimes. This will encourage other criminally minded people to commit similar offenses.
Most people will prefer to live in Swedish prison instead of walking free in Burundi!

Where do you plan to exile them to?  Australia?  UK already tried that...

What country wants a bunch of reject criminals?
I wrote in the OP - poorest countries in the world for some monetary compensation (much less than prison costs).

This news just came in from the United Kingdom. They are stripping the citizenship of Muslim pedophiles, who abused kids in Rotherham and London. These guys will be deported to Pakistan:
+1. France also plan to do the same!
http://www.chron.com/news/world/article/French-lawmakers-to-vote-on-divisive-citizenship-6820243.php
bryant.coleman
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February 26, 2016, 04:11:35 PM
 #7

Right now, almost anyone can travel to any of the European Union member nations, and reside there.
From what time Sub-Saharan African countries entered the EU?!

Look at the number of illegals from Somalia and Morocco currently residing in London. It is not that hard for them to immigrate.

Also, I don't support the idea of letting the convict walk free, after committing heinous crimes. This will encourage other criminally minded people to commit similar offenses.
Most people will prefer to live in Swedish prison instead of walking free in Burundi!

I don't think that the revocation of European citizenship is a serious enough punishment for child rape. But then, a prison term in the Swedish jails is a joke.

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February 26, 2016, 04:37:12 PM
 #8

Criminals can buy fake passports and re-enter your country.  Do you think they care if you strip them of citizenship?  They are criminals they don't give a shit about the paperwork or the laws.
And they be able to change their DNA or retina?!
...

Think this through.  You want to change passports of all countries that have no visa requirements with your country to use DNA and retina in their passports?  The guy could pretend to be a tourist from any other country, get into your country and do whatever.  He could immigrate back as an investor back into your or any other country.

You really don't know how criminals think.

Take any criminology course in school.  Jesus!!
 


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February 26, 2016, 08:34:47 PM
 #9

I don't think that the revocation of European citizenship is a serious enough punishment for child rape.
Visit Burundi and you will change your opinion by 100%!
Also country of the exile can be chosen according to the severity of the crime (e.g. Burundi for child rape, Cambodia for robbery).

Think this through.  You want to change passports of all countries that have no visa requirements with your country to use DNA and retina in their passports?  The guy could pretend to be a tourist from any other country, get into your country and do whatever.  He could immigrate back as an investor back into your or any other country.
You must know that countries which offer investment immigration always make background checks. No need to change all passports, just share database of exiled criminals with these countries.
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February 26, 2016, 08:58:16 PM
 #10

In America, you don't want citizenship. You want simple domicile... which means you live on the land.

If you need citizenship in the United States, Set up your UCC-1 strawman to hold the citizenship for you, and to be indebted to you for whatever great amount you want or need. See http://www.abodia.com/ucc/.

If you harm someone, and if it can be proven in court, you will have to pay the penalty. But if the court can't make the distinction and use the right words, they might be placing the proof of guilt on the strawman. You might get off completely free if you work it right.

Cool
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February 27, 2016, 06:28:56 AM
 #11

I don't think that the revocation of European citizenship is a serious enough punishment for child rape.
Visit Burundi and you will change your opinion by 100%!
Also country of the exile can be chosen according to the severity of the crime (e.g. Burundi for child rape, Cambodia for robbery).

There are issues, which makes your proposal impracticable. The European courts will strike down any such initiative from the government, claiming that such measures infringe the human rights of the criminals. Some of the past examples are here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262243/Rapist-facing-deportation-allowed-stay-UK-married.html
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/260577/uk-rapist-escapes-deportation-posing-syrian-daniel-greenfield
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/284319/convicted-rapist-avoids-deportation (outside EU, but similar circumstances)

And remember that most of these people were in the EU illegally. If it is not possible to even deport illegal aliens, how is it possible to strip citizenship of criminals, who happens to be EU nationals?

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February 27, 2016, 06:37:49 AM
 #12

I don't think that the revocation of European citizenship is a serious enough punishment for child rape.
Visit Burundi and you will change your opinion by 100%!
Also country of the exile can be chosen according to the severity of the crime (e.g. Burundi for child rape, Cambodia for robbery).

There are issues, which makes your proposal impracticable. The European courts will strike down any such initiative from the government, claiming that such measures infringe the human rights of the criminals. Some of the past examples are here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1262243/Rapist-facing-deportation-allowed-stay-UK-married.html
http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/260577/uk-rapist-escapes-deportation-posing-syrian-daniel-greenfield
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/284319/convicted-rapist-avoids-deportation (outside EU, but similar circumstances)

And remember that most of these people were in the EU illegally. If it is not possible to even deport illegal aliens, how is it possible to strip citizenship of criminals, who happens to be EU nationals?

i checked the first article and the guy was 8 years in jail and the reason that he cant deported is a home office mistake to allow him to marry a woman who is a german national.

reading comprehension 101

i wont bother to check other links omg  Roll Eyes

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February 27, 2016, 06:45:38 AM
 #13

There are many flaws with this idea but, yeah why not?  Grin

This could be an opportunity for some as they can thrive there and possible create a notorious gang. Or,they can suffer more or worst in the country of destination for survival.

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February 27, 2016, 05:29:46 PM
 #14

The idea is to strip-off citizenship from the convicted felon instead of putting him in prison. Government of his home country can sign a contract with one of the poorest states in the world (Burundi, Malawi, Liberia etc), so in exchange for some monetary compensation the poor country would grant him a citizenship, then his home country will revoke his nationality and expel convict to the poor state.

Compensation for the poor country will be order of magnitude lower than costs keeping him in prison, but deterring effect much stronger than prison time because most people would choose to spend some time in US or EU prison instead of spending rest of life in Sub-Saharan Africa!

You can't do that anymore. Even sending home some nationals is problematic. I remember reading an article about an Algerian national who had committed several crimes in France. When he left jail, he was put in a plane with 2 French policemen to make sure he would leave France, except that meanwhile, Algeria had cancelled his citizenship, so the guy had to to be flown back to France, where I guess he still lives!

Poor countries have their own problems with their own people, and they don't want more problems with foreigners. Even with a payment.
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February 27, 2016, 05:46:02 PM
 #15

You can't do that anymore. Even sending home some nationals is problematic. I remember reading an article about an Algerian national who had committed several crimes in France. When he left jail, he was put in a plane with 2 French policemen to make sure he would leave France, except that meanwhile, Algeria had cancelled his citizenship, so the guy had to to be flown back to France, where I guess he still lives!

Algeria has previously refused to accept its own citizens, who were deported from the European Union for committing various crimes. On the other hand, they are exporting all their criminals to Europe.

Poor countries have their own problems with their own people, and they don't want more problems with foreigners. Even with a payment.

Not always. Recently, Australia signed an agreement with Nauru, Papua New Guinea, and Cambodia to accept some of the asylum seekers, in return for loans and grants from the Aussies.

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February 27, 2016, 05:48:05 PM
 #16

Where do you plan to exile them to?  Australia?  UK already tried that...

What country wants a bunch of reject criminals?

you are totatly right.. any country wont accept those criminals.. and criminals dont care about paperwork or any other law thing..
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February 27, 2016, 06:03:08 PM
 #17

Where do you plan to exile them to?  Australia?  UK already tried that...

What country wants a bunch of reject criminals?

you are totatly right.. any country wont accept those criminals.. and criminals dont care about paperwork or any other law thing..

i agree with you.. no country wants those evil offenders on their own lands.. this punishment is so illogical..

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February 27, 2016, 06:24:25 PM
 #18

i agree with you.. no country wants those evil offenders on their own lands.. this punishment is so illogical..

No democratic country will accept such people on its territory. But there are a lot of dictatorships around the world, which would do anything to get hold of some $$$. Many of the Sub-Saharan, Latin American, and Asian nations would accept the European rapists, murderers and pedophiles, if the EU is ready to pay the bill. 

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February 27, 2016, 06:47:10 PM
 #19

There are many flaws with this idea but, yeah why not?  Grin

This could be an opportunity for some as they can thrive there and possible create a notorious gang. Or,they can suffer more or worst in the country of destination for survival.

there will be no suffering at all if those criminals get away with their brutal crimes.. they must stay in the prison.. this is the fair punishment for sure..

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February 27, 2016, 11:18:19 PM
 #20

Void of that, I say we just kill them.  One gun, one bullet to the brain, a tarp underneath for easy cleanup; kill a bunch of them at once and put them in a mass grave, rather than individual graves, for even more savings.  Put the whole thing on TV and charge advertisers a hefty fee, make all the money back and even profit.  Plus we get rid of shitty people we don't want to take care of.  With the profits made, you could even reinvest in more spectacular and creative ways of killing them; put them in a ring and make them fight out for delaying their demise until the next round of killing.  Make even more money from the show as more eyeballs = more advertisement views = more ad revenue.

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