Petition the government to declare the legal status of Bitcoin?

[stochastic]

Better publicity is to get a petition to declare Bitcoin illegal.

[sounds]

Better publicity is to get a petition to declare Bitcoin illegal.

How so? I can't really see why you believe a petition will do this, can you explain?

[bootmii]

It would be counterproductive to declare it legal, because that destroys the low-transaction-fee aspect.
Every transaction could be a sale, because the government is usually unable to determine either way. Therefore, to be certain they haven't missed any sales tax, there would be 9.25% on EVERY TRANSACTION.
Then there's the IRS, which may or may not even be legal anyway.
Finally, there's the Fed. They could start running ASICs at any time.
It should not be declared either way, it should be just something that's there.

[Roger_Murdock]

Stop asking for permission. It only encourages them.

[Mike Christ]

Stop asking for permission. It only encourages them.

This.

[grondilu]

Stop asking for permission. It only encourages them.

This.

This++

Last time I checked, in a supposedly free country, what is not forbidden is authorized.

[coga]

Stop asking for permission. It only encourages them.

This.

This++

Last time I checked, in a supposedly free country, what is not forbidden is authorized.

The latest FinSEC bulletin pretty much declared free trading with bitcoins illegal. I think this idea must be resurrected. It's the only way we could get publicity. They will not leave us alone

I started this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160213.0 to get it started

[MysteryMiner]

Let's focus on expanding the Bitcoin economy. If it becomes a normal part of life, it's automatically legal, just because it would feel absurd to make it illegal.

It is wrong thinking in today's world. Piracy, file sharing, hacking all are fundamental parts of digital life. But is made largely illegal. The same might happen to Bitcoin despite it's adoption numbers. And the same will happen to Bitcoin as with other illegal computer things. They will continue to be part of daily life and even expand.

I'm against nagging government and Bitcoin must root into daily lifes for as many users as possible before banhammer strikes.

[gapthemind]

Currency that cant be traced? That will never happen. Im still not sure how did any country ( USA for example ) let bitcoins be "active" for all this years. Only one thing comes to my mind, some strong government is behind it using some project.....

[Mike Christ]

Governments arent necessarily againt Bitcoin, it's the feds that dont like it. A government owned by feds will despise Bitcoin, but the biggest law-passer in the world is still extremely slow to act. Bitcoin is no more legal or illegal than gold, and no law ever stopped piracy, so why bother passing one? They're more focused on controlling the Internet; if they accomplish this (and they're always trying) then you can expect a whole slew of prosecuting to begin. America would love to tax Bitcoin, and since every transaction is public, they could potentially force users to declare their identities so they can be properly taxed.  It would be impossible to avoid taxation at that point, unless you resort to trading cash in person again.

[myrkul]

Governments arent necessarily againt Bitcoin, it's the feds that dont like it. A government owned by feds will despise Bitcoin, but the biggest law-passer in the world is still extremely slow to act. Bitcoin is no more legal or illegal than gold, and no law ever stopped piracy, so why bother passing one? They're more focused on controlling the Internet; if they accomplish this (and they're always trying) then you can expect a whole slew of prosecuting to begin. America would love to tax Bitcoin, and since every transaction is public, they could potentially force users to declare their identities so they can be properly taxed.  It would be impossible to avoid taxation at that point, unless you resort to trading cash in person again.

You do know that the client lets you make as many new addresses as you like, right?

[Mike Christ]

Yes Bitcoin as it is now can be private. However, if governments can listen in on what kind of traffic occurs on any person's connection, they could tell if youre attempting to butt them out. As of now, we have a right to privacy. If CISPA and all its cousins get their way, being anonamous on the web will be a thing of the past.

[gapthemind]

Governments arent necessarily againt Bitcoin, it's the feds that dont like it. A government owned by feds will despise Bitcoin, but the biggest law-passer in the world is still extremely slow to act. Bitcoin is no more legal or illegal than gold, and no law ever stopped piracy, so why bother passing one? They're more focused on controlling the Internet; if they accomplish this (and they're always trying) then you can expect a whole slew of prosecuting to begin. America would love to tax Bitcoin, and since every transaction is public, they could potentially force users to declare their identities so they can be properly taxed.  It would be impossible to avoid taxation at that point, unless you resort to trading cash in person again.

Well not true. You can hold gold in you hands, you can dig for it, its is not made of 0 and 1, it is a currecy used is so many ways. MMF uses it also, World Bank and so on... Bitcoin is worth less then 1 billion $ ( atm ) so thats not much "money" to start with. You cant tax something that is virtual, thats not like money on PP ( $, punds, yen, and so on ), and since you cant control it its not good for any country.

[gapthemind]

Yes Bitcoin as it is now can be private. However, if governments can listen in on what kind of traffic occurs on any person's connection, they could tell if youre attempting to butt them out. As of now, we have a right to privacy. If CISPA and all its cousins get their way, being anonamous on the web will be a thing of the past.

But you need to consider that bitcoin value differs and one day it can be worth 100$ and next day 70$. No country would invest into something like that, and how would you out a tax on it? I buy a car from you with bitcoins and i pay you 300bitcoins, tomorrow you might lose 5-10K $$$. Market is way 2 small, there isnt much $$$ in bitcoins....

[Mike Christ]

Well not true. You can hold gold in you hands, you can dig for it, its is not made of 0 and 1, it is a currecy used is so many ways. MMF uses it also, World Bank and so on... Bitcoin is worth less then 1 billion $ ( atm ) so thats not much "money" to start with. You cant tax something that is virtual, thats not like money on PP ( $, punds, yen, and so on ), and since you cant control it its not good for any country.

It currently isn't taxable, but laws will be laws and if law is changed to allow virtual currencies to be taxed (specifically for Bitcoin, and likely only for Bitcoin and its derivatives), then there will be the power to tax.  I guarantee there will be supporters for taxes, and enough lobbying to push it through.  What I'm saying, if governments are allowed full access to what you do on the web and on your computer, they will find a way to monitor what you spend and to whom.  It'd be a long list to explain how they could go about doing this, but I wouldn't say it's completely out the window.  We're safe for now, but if and when Bitcoin eats up a lot more than where we're sitting at right now, America, and any other country for the matter, will likely want in on it, and will find a way to swallow a percentage of your cash.

I have high hopes for Bitcoin personally   Today of course, it's not going to happen.  But I do believe Bitcoin is firmly grafted into society, and crypto-currencies aren't going to fall off the planet anytime soon.  Countries would either wait for the value of Bitcoin to stabilize, or simply transform the Bitcoin into a bill for dollars.  They wouldn't be able to draw Bitcoin from you directly by any means; instead, I believe they would require you to declare all of your addresses so they can monitor your wallet's activity.  After so long, they send you the Bitcoin tax bill and demand payment in USD (or whatever the country's currency is) or face prison time.  If they decide you're using undeclared wallets to transfer cash, they would probably attempt imprisonment for tax evasion, or claim you're laundering.

I'm certain there's several ways it could happen, however...  But as long as the Internet stays private, it's nothing to ever worry about.

[gapthemind]

Hope is one thing, reality is something different. Bitcoin will be present ( i hope ) but only real value is behind the fact that atm it cn=ant be traced ( or we think that ). The moment some government controls it, value will drop. And even now value isn stable. Investing into something thats not stable is risky even more so that noone knows what and who is behind it. And if you thing some country ( like USA ) cant simply "close" bitcoin down and trace transaction, you are msitaken, they could do that decades ago, who knows what can they do now. That is why i think some government ( USA ) is behind it.

[Richy_T]

Bitcoin certainly is taxable. They just have to declare a tax on it. In fact, if you've made income on it, you should probably, by the laws of your jurisdiction, be declaring it.

What it is not easy to do is enforce taxes. So they will do what they always do. If they can find a point to tax, they will tax it. They will tax the online stores you use, they will tax the shipping, they will find ways wherever. And when you find ways around it, they will throw you in jail.

Bitcoin is great and very subversive but don't get the idea it will somehow prevent the government getting its claws into your legitimate transactions.

[MysteryMiner]

Currency that cant be traced? That will never happen.

It is already happened. Bitcoin.

Im still not sure how did any country ( USA for example ) let bitcoins be "active" for all this years

Bitcoins are like Freenet or Tor. The extremely aggressive and invasive actions required to take any of them down will result in small gain together with large protests. Decentralized and open source networks cannot be taken down. Probably after all governments have leaned something.

Only one thing comes to my mind, some strong government is behind it using some project.....

I don't think Bitcoins are this case.

They're more focused on controlling the Internet; if they accomplish this (and they're always trying) then you can expect a whole slew of prosecuting to begin.

For this to happen, there must remain no single free country in the world. And goatsed internet is only fraction of problems if such events become true.

since every transaction is public, they could potentially force users to declare their identities so they can be properly taxed.  It would be impossible to avoid taxation at that point, unless you resort to trading cash in person again.

Keeping two separate wallets and using one for normal trade and another for doing Silk Road purchases will solve this problem.

However, if governments can listen in on what kind of traffic occurs on any person's connection, they could tell if youre attempting to butt them out. As of now, we have a right to privacy. If CISPA and all its cousins get their way, being anonamous on the web will be a thing of the past.

Listening to Bitcoin traffic are not telling much. Except from initiated transactions. If getting paranoid, route Bitcoin trough Tor. And governments can listen to traffic right now, in many cases even without court permission. All that these CISA can do is fully legalizing mass surveillance that are happening in secrecy right now.

[gapthemind]

It is already happened. Bitcoin. Bitcoins are like Freenet or Tor. The extremely aggressive and invasive actions required to take any of them down will result in small gain together with large protests. Decentralized and open source networks cannot be taken down. Probably after all governments have leaned something.

You can trace to some extent you cant trace origin of something made from 0 and 1. Something has te bo behind it,, u cant simply make money out of anything, right?
Protests? Do you really think that will stop government to do anything if they chose so? They have taken down megaupload, they can take down anything if they chose to do it

[Jobe7]

I'm sure you guys will have already spotted this but have you heard of the We the people government website? It's actually quite a good idea to make the government more transparent, I wish more would do stuff like this, but if you don't know what the site does it's like many of those other petition websites except that if you reach a certain amount of signatures ( Last I looked it was 100,000 ) you get an official response from the Whitehouse.

I thought maybe this would be a great idea for publicity, I can't do a thing because I'm not a U.S Citizen but maybe someone who is could make a petition on there to get the attention of the white house since we have so many people now wondering what they're going to do about it.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/

Kind of, not like this though.

It needs to happen in its own time, natural like.