[DEAL LOCKED IN WITH USER 420] LTC

[smoothie]

I want a contract where I WILL buy 10,000 LTC at $0.07 on January 1st, 2014.

Any takers?

[420]

I want a contract where I can buy 10,000 LTC at $0.07 on January 1st, 2014.

Any takers?

change *can* to *have to* and they have to deliver. or else no one's giving you a contract

[ThaddeusB]

I want a contract where I can buy 10,000 LTC at $0.07 on January 1st, 2014.

Any takers?

If you want the option to buy, then you'll have to pay for the contract up front.  (Obviously no one would give you an option for free even if they were 99% confident in their side).  If that's indeed what you had in mind, let me know and I'll work out what I think a fair price would be.

Thaddeus

[420]

HELLO. what terms do you want smoothie?

[smoothie]

HELLO. what terms do you want smoothie?

Keep up okay? 

http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,1098.msg6058.html#msg6058

[420]

HELLO. what terms do you want smoothie?

Keep up okay? 

http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,1098.msg6058.html#msg6058

http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,1098.msg6080.html#msg6080

[smoothie]

HELLO. what terms do you want smoothie?

Keep up okay? 

http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,1098.msg6058.html#msg6058

http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,1098.msg6080.html#msg6080

http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,1098.msg6081.html#msg6081

[smoothie]

Contract locked in with 420.

See here: http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,1098.msg6086.html#msg6086

I will buy 10k LTC from user 420 for $700 on January 1st, 2014.

[420]

Contract locked in with 420.

See here: http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,1098.msg6086.html#msg6086

I will buy 10k LTC from user 420 for $700 on January 1st, 2014.

oh this will be fun.............

wonder why I didn't negotiate a higher price....

[smoothie]

@420

http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,1098.msg6092.html#msg6092

Deal is locked. No changes shall be made unless we both agree.

[smoothie]

Contract locked in with 420.

See here: http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,1098.msg6086.html#msg6086

I will buy 10k LTC from user 420 for $700 on January 1st, 2014.

oh this will be fun.............

wonder why I didn't negotiate a higher price....

  Yes this will be fun.

It is too late now to change the price. Thank you for accepting.

Smoothie

[Maged]

@420

http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,1098.msg6092.html#msg6092

Deal is locked. No changes shall be made unless we both agree.

Witnessed. Contents of that link at the time of this post are as follows:

I accept

deal. 10k LTC for $700 on January 1st, 2014.

Greedi will be the witness to this deal. He will be the one to make judgments on any scam accusations.

[Maged]

Context of the "I accept":

I want a contract where I WILL buy 10,000 LTC at $0.07 on January 1st, 2014.

Any takers?

I accept

as long as u dont buy a bunch of ltc bringing the price to 0.07 now

Note that there was an edit to this post one minute before Smoothie acknowledged the deal, so the stipulation "as long as u dont buy a bunch of ltc bringing the price to 0.07 now" is questionable in terms of enforcement. Yes, I know it was a joke, but it was included in the acceptance so I need to acknowledge it anyway, in case it's a problem later.

[Maged]

Contract locked in with 420.

See here: http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,1098.msg6086.html#msg6086

I will buy 10k LTC from user 420 for $700 on January 1st, 2014.

oh this will be fun.............

wonder why I didn't negotiate a higher price....

Quoting as evidence that the 420 here is acknowledging the deal.

Also, as far as a scam investigation, Greedi shall take the lead investigative role here as well. If either side has a complaint, go through him first.

Greedi can be a witness to this contract given he is admin on this site and I am a moderator.

Sure..

+ That I also would like to stand in for Smoothie as NOT being a scammer.. We are talking sometimes over skype etc, so Yes, I know him a bit better then just "my" moderator/slave

If you would like to appeal any action/decision Greedi makes, you can appeal to me if you would like it to not apply to this forum.

Greedi, if you would like any action to be taken here, please tell me what you would like along with a justification and any evidence you have.

[Greedi]

Contract locked in with 420.

See here: http://forum.litecoin.net/index.php/topic,1098.msg6086.html#msg6086

I will buy 10k LTC from user 420 for $700 on January 1st, 2014.

oh this will be fun.............

wonder why I didn't negotiate a higher price....

Quoting as evidence that the 420 here is acknowledging the deal.

Also, as far as a scam investigation, Greedi shall take the lead investigative role here as well. If either side has a complaint, go through him first.

Greedi can be a witness to this contract given he is admin on this site and I am a moderator.

Sure..

+ That I also would like to stand in for Smoothie as NOT being a scammer.. We are talking sometimes over skype etc, so Yes, I know him a bit better then just "my" moderator/slave

If you would like to appeal any action/decision Greedi makes, you can appeal to me if you would like it to not apply to this forum.

Greedi, if you would like any action to be taken here, please tell me what you would like along with a justification and any evidence you have.

Will PM in a moment thanks

[smoothie]

Context of the "I accept":

I want a contract where I WILL buy 10,000 LTC at $0.07 on January 1st, 2014.

Any takers?

I accept

as long as u dont buy a bunch of ltc bringing the price to 0.07 now

Note that there was an edit to this post one minute before Smoothie acknowledged the deal, so the stipulation "as long as u dont buy a bunch of ltc bringing the price to 0.07 now" is questionable in terms of enforcement. Yes, I know it was a joke, but it was included in the acceptance so I need to acknowledge it anyway, in case it's a problem later.

The provision does nothing. He has no way of knowing I would purchase or have someone purchase for me "now". But given I have no intentions on driving up the price, the provision is irrelevant.

[cptmooseinc]

So I'm to understand that 420 provided an option contract to Smoothie for the right to buy 10k LTC a year from now at $.07/ea, but I see nothing about an option premium?!

I -REALLY- hope that Smoothie had to pay a premium for this "contract" up front. Anyone with even the lightest notion of what options are understands there's a premium collected on such contracts. And to have the currency so near the strike would demand a premium (in my opinion) of at least $.025/LTC paid upfront. $100 profit on $700 in 1 year is horrible. I understand it's a 14% ROI, but 420 should have been paid a premium for assuming the risk of holding LTC for a year in case it becomes another worthless currency. Maybe I missed something, but I don't see a premium for this deal listed anywhere.

[smoothie]

So I'm to understand that 420 provided an option contract to Smoothie for the right to buy 10k LTC a year from now at $.07/ea, but I see nothing about an option premium?!

I -REALLY- hope that Smoothie had to pay a premium for this "contract" up front. Anyone with even the lightest notion of what options are understands there's a premium collected on such contracts. And to have the currency so near the strike would demand a premium (in my opinion) of at least $.025/LTC paid upfront. $100 profit on $700 in 1 year is horrible. I understand it's a 14% ROI, but 420 should have been paid a premium for assuming the risk of holding LTC for a year in case it becomes another worthless currency. Maybe I missed something, but I don't see a premium for this deal listed anywhere.

Perhaps that is how things should have been done, in the "real world".

The agreement has been made and is locked in with Maged/Greedi as witnesses.

I've done a bitcoin futures contract this same way with Jcpham back in October which was agreed 3.5 months in advance to buy 50 bitcoins at $11.

[cptmooseinc]

Well anyone who offers you option contracts without an upfront premium on them is an absolute fool, and I'm saying that as nicely as I can. You are taking no risk and only have 100% upside. Meanwhile, any person offering such a contract would be a fool NOT to buy the LTC now to back up the contract, otherwise they risk losing huge sums if it goes up. But, if they DO buy 10k worth of LTC, then they're sitting on a maximum loss of over $600 right now if the coin goes bust.

It's a stupid trade for uneducated investors. Good job scamming someone in BTC a few months back and now someone in LTC.

I suggest anyone else who sees interest in doing business with this guy takes their time and looks into how options are SUPPOSED to work. The buyer of contracts -always- pays a premium. The seller -always- collects one.

420 has now risked ~$600 to win ~$100 with no premium collected on the agreement. 1 year is a LONG time in the options world. 3 months is usually the longest real options traders are willing to stomach. Such a long dated contract is considered a LEAPS (Long Term Equity AnticiPation Security). These carry hefty premiums due to the huge risk of missing upside potential in stocks.

If I were to have done this trade, I would have suggested modeling it as such:

Give smoothie an option to buy 10K LTC on Jan 1, 2014.
smoothie must pay $.02/LTC contract fee ($200) up front. Payable in BTC/LTC or any fiat currency (seeing as how the trade is more than 180 days out, almost anything could be accepted, such as Paypal, because a chargeback before the window closes for them invalidates the contract).

This makes smoothie's breakeven price $.09/LTC on Jan 1, 2014, but as long as it's above $.07/LTC in 2014, he can still exercise it.
This makes 420's cost basis ~$.04/LTC if he buys them up slowly over time (as 10K LTC under $.07/ea isn't even available on BTC-e right now).

smoothie would then have unlimited upside potential in his trade.
420 would have a maximum loss of $400, and a maximum gain of $300. This is much more fair to the seller, as he's only taking on slightly more risk for slightly less money.

-Moose

[smoothie]

Well anyone who offers you option contracts without an upfront premium on them is an absolute fool, and I'm saying that as nicely as I can. You are taking no risk and only have 100% upside. Meanwhile, any person offering such a contract would be a fool NOT to buy the LTC now to back up the contract, otherwise they risk losing huge sums if it goes up. But, if they DO buy 10k worth of LTC, then they're sitting on a maximum loss of over $600 right now if the coin goes bust.

It's a stupid trade for uneducated investors. Good job scamming someone in BTC a few months back and now someone in LTC.

I suggest anyone else who sees interest in doing business with this guy takes their time and looks into how options are SUPPOSED to work. The buyer of contracts -always- pays a premium. The seller -always- collects one.

420 has now risked ~$600 to win ~$100 with no premium collected on the agreement. 1 year is a LONG time in the options world. 3 months is usually the longest real options traders are willing to stomach. Such a long dated contract is considered a LEAPS (Long Term Equity AnticiPation Security). These carry hefty premiums due to the huge risk of missing upside potential in stocks.

If I were to have done this trade, I would have suggested modeling it as such:

Give smoothie an option to buy 10K LTC on Jan 1, 2014.
smoothie must pay $.02/LTC contract fee ($200) up front. Payable in BTC/LTC or any fiat currency (seeing as how the trade is more than 180 days out, almost anything could be accepted, such as Paypal, because a chargeback before the window closes for them invalidates the contract).

This makes smoothie's breakeven price $.09/LTC on Jan 1, 2014, but as long as it's above $.07/LTC in 2014, he can still exercise it.
This makes 420's cost basis ~$.04/LTC if he buys them up slowly over time (as 10K LTC under $.07/ea isn't even available on BTC-e right now).

smoothie would then have unlimited upside potential in his trade.
420 would have a maximum loss of $400, and a maximum gain of $300. This is much more fair to the seller, as he's only taking on slightly more risk for slightly less money.

-Moose

Moose,

It isn't a scam if the other party agrees. Maged was the witness to my last deal. No scam was done or made. The agreement, no matter how absurd you think it is, is an agreement. No one was forced into the agreement. If LTC goes down in value by January 1st, 2014 I will pay $700 for 10,000 LTC from user 420.

Thank you for educating us on the process though. I'm sure people will learn a lot from this including myself.

Smoothie

P.S. Easy on the scam accusations brother. No one has been scammed by me. Also keep in mind that this is bitcoin/litecoin there is no regulatory agency or laws. We are going on my word and reputation as well as 420's.