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Author Topic: "First step in an effort to bring real fiscal responsibility to Washington"  (Read 1834 times)
Blinken
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January 23, 2013, 07:05:11 PM
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After the Republicans caved just now (1:30 pm EST 23rd January 2013) and voted to eliminate the debt limit, the speaker Boehner said, "This is the first step in an effort to bring real fiscal responsibility to Washington."

What a joke. Right, let's bring fiscal responsibility to Washington by allowing the Treasury to borrow ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY IT WANTS.

As soon as Obama signs this bill, the Treasury can borrow UNLIMITED amounts of money. 10 trillion, 20 trillion, 100 trillion. Any amount it wants.

Get ready folks, the dollar is about to turn into garbage.

And bitcoins? Hello and welcome to the new world and way of doing business instantly and without fees. Where your wealth and security does not depend on how much money central banks print.

Bitcoin ♦♦♦ Trust in Mathematics, Not Bankers ♦♦♦
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SgtSpike
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January 23, 2013, 07:52:06 PM
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Source about the vote to eliminate the debt limit?

All I can find is that they voted to extend the limit to May... http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/23/16663257-house-votes-to-push-debt-limit-deadline-to-mid-may?lite
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January 23, 2013, 08:11:21 PM
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This is part of the problem: the average American has no idea what is happening in Washington.

The House voted to SUSPEND the debt limit. That means there is NO DEBT LIMIT at all if the bill is passed by the Senate and signed.

The terms of the bill are that the suspension is "temporary", but this is ridiculous because if once the Treasury borrows past the "limit" which will happen immediately if the bill is signed, then if the bill "expires" it has no effect. You cannot "unborrow" money.

If it looked like congress was going to re-impose a debt limit in May, Obama can just borrow all he needs, say, an additional $20 trillion before they have a chance to re-impose a limit.

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Herodes
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January 23, 2013, 08:15:18 PM
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I think the only way to bring real responsibility into any government is to give them a real incentive to do a good job. Those who stall, lie, deceipt or otherwise work against the interest of the nation as a whole should be punished. Repeat offences should give abrupt termination of position with no benefits. How not to be sacked ? Do a real honest god job!
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January 23, 2013, 08:19:50 PM
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This is part of the problem: the average American has no idea what is happening in Washington.

The House voted to SUSPEND the debt limit. That means there is NO DEBT LIMIT at all if the bill is passed by the Senate and signed.

The terms of the bill are that the suspension is "temporary", but this is ridiculous because if once the Treasury borrows past the "limit" which will happen immediately if the bill is signed, then if the bill "expires" it has no effect. You cannot "unborrow" money.

If it looked like congress was going to re-impose a debt limit in May, Obama can just borrow all he needs, say, an additional $20 trillion before they have a chance to re-impose a limit.

I see what you're saying... crazy.

Of course, they won't borrow a huge sum of money in the next few months, because such an action would make headlines and dash approval ratings, but it is nonetheless a very concerning step on a very slippery slope...!
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January 23, 2013, 08:21:00 PM
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Agorism > Government
Voluntary Choices > Violence
Bitcoin > Forced Fiat Currency

Voluntaryism- The belief that ALL human interactions should be free of force, fraud and coercion.
Taxation is Theft; War is Murder; Incarceration is Kidnapping; Spanking is Assault; Federal Reserve Notes are Counterfeiting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntaryism
Anth0n
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January 23, 2013, 08:52:26 PM
 #7

After the Republicans caved just now (1:30 pm EST 23rd January 2013) and voted to eliminate the debt limit, the speaker Boehner said, "This is the first step in an effort to bring real fiscal responsibility to Washington."

What a joke. Right, let's bring fiscal responsibility to Washington by allowing the Treasury to borrow ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY IT WANTS.

As soon as Obama signs this bill, the Treasury can borrow UNLIMITED amounts of money. 10 trillion, 20 trillion, 100 trillion. Any amount it wants.

Get ready folks, the dollar is about to turn into garbage.

And bitcoins? Hello and welcome to the new world and way of doing business instantly and without fees. Where your wealth and security does not depend on how much money central banks print.


Effectively there is no debt limit anyway since the ceiling is raised every time. So it has never been a limiting factor in spending.
hazek
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January 23, 2013, 09:01:21 PM
 #8

After the Republicans caved just now (1:30 pm EST 23rd January 2013) and voted to eliminate the debt limit, the speaker Boehner said, "This is the first step in an effort to bring real fiscal responsibility to Washington."

What a joke. Right, let's bring fiscal responsibility to Washington by allowing the Treasury to borrow ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY IT WANTS.

As soon as Obama signs this bill, the Treasury can borrow UNLIMITED amounts of money. 10 trillion, 20 trillion, 100 trillion. Any amount it wants.

Get ready folks, the dollar is about to turn into garbage.

And bitcoins? Hello and welcome to the new world and way of doing business instantly and without fees. Where your wealth and security does not depend on how much money central banks print.


Effectively there is no debt limit anyway since the ceiling is raised every time. So it has never been a limiting factor in spending.

It's more like a debt target, where every time they reached it they set it higher and reached it again and then set it higher again and so on and so forth  Cheesy Such a fucking joke.  Roll Eyes

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Lethn
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January 23, 2013, 09:15:38 PM
 #9

I must be getting old, I had a rant all lined up for this situation but the arrogant stupidity is just so much from the people in charge of us I can't be bothered any more, I think just patiently building up a stash of Bitcoins and precious metals is the only real answer.
hazek
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January 23, 2013, 09:22:03 PM
 #10

I think just patiently building up a stash of Bitcoins and precious metals is the only real answer.
It is. That and educating as many others to do the same as possible.

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
notme
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January 23, 2013, 09:49:55 PM
 #11

I think the only way to bring real responsibility into any government is to give them a real incentive to do a good job. Those who stall, lie, deceipt or otherwise work against the interest of the nation as a whole should be punished. Repeat offences should give abrupt termination of position with no benefits. How not to be sacked ? Do a real honest god job!

You'll just end up with bread and circuses to keep the people distracted.  Governing based on fear won't lead us in the right direction.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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pipboy
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January 24, 2013, 01:38:26 AM
 #12

After the Republicans caved just now (1:30 pm EST 23rd January 2013) and voted to eliminate the debt limit, the speaker Boehner said, "This is the first step in an effort to bring real fiscal responsibility to Washington."

What a joke. Right, let's bring fiscal responsibility to Washington by allowing the Treasury to borrow ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY IT WANTS.

As soon as Obama signs this bill, the Treasury can borrow UNLIMITED amounts of money. 10 trillion, 20 trillion, 100 trillion. Any amount it wants.

Get ready folks, the dollar is about to turn into garbage.

And bitcoins? Hello and welcome to the new world and way of doing business instantly and without fees. Where your wealth and security does not depend on how much money central banks print.


Effectively there is no debt limit anyway since the ceiling is raised every time. So it has never been a limiting factor in spending.

While is true that there has never been any real limit on the debt the fact that they are publicly removing the "limit" may be a sign that the whole thing is ready to implode.  The debt currently held by the Federal Government is mathematically impossible to repay.  Even if they taxed everybody %100 of their income and we could magically survive and continue to work without income the debt could not be repaid.  There are only two options available to them, default on the debt or devalue the currency.  They will obviously choose the later since the former would lead to war.  News like this just brings us one step closer to a dollar devaluation which we have been marching towards for some time.

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Herodes
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January 24, 2013, 02:05:17 AM
 #13

I think the only way to bring real responsibility into any government is to give them a real incentive to do a good job. Those who stall, lie, deceipt or otherwise work against the interest of the nation as a whole should be punished. Repeat offences should give abrupt termination of position with no benefits. How not to be sacked ? Do a real honest god job!

You'll just end up with bread and circuses to keep the people distracted.  Governing based on fear won't lead us in the right direction.

Haha, perhaps Dictatorship is the way to go. But then we need a good dictator!
notme
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January 24, 2013, 03:41:24 AM
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I think the only way to bring real responsibility into any government is to give them a real incentive to do a good job. Those who stall, lie, deceipt or otherwise work against the interest of the nation as a whole should be punished. Repeat offences should give abrupt termination of position with no benefits. How not to be sacked ? Do a real honest god job!

You'll just end up with bread and circuses to keep the people distracted.  Governing based on fear won't lead us in the right direction.

Haha, perhaps Dictatorship is the way to go. But then we need a good dictator!

A benevolent dictator would be the ideal form of government if such a human could exist.  Unfortunately, the human condition does not allow such behavior.  Power corrupts.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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notme
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January 24, 2013, 04:09:37 AM
 #15

Power corrupts.

I disagree. Powerful positions which require no production to obtain or maintain attract corrupt individuals.

Power doesn't necessarily have to corrupt, but western culture has no clue how to deal with power properly.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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Herodes
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January 24, 2013, 04:30:02 AM
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Power corrupts.

I disagree. Powerful positions which require no production to obtain or maintain attract corrupt individuals.

There is a saying that goes: Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.


I think there are many people in powerful positions that intended well in the beginning, but as time went by they saw what they could get away with, and the temptations became too big.
SgtSpike
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January 24, 2013, 04:31:46 AM
 #17

After the Republicans caved just now (1:30 pm EST 23rd January 2013) and voted to eliminate the debt limit, the speaker Boehner said, "This is the first step in an effort to bring real fiscal responsibility to Washington."

What a joke. Right, let's bring fiscal responsibility to Washington by allowing the Treasury to borrow ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY IT WANTS.

As soon as Obama signs this bill, the Treasury can borrow UNLIMITED amounts of money. 10 trillion, 20 trillion, 100 trillion. Any amount it wants.

Get ready folks, the dollar is about to turn into garbage.

And bitcoins? Hello and welcome to the new world and way of doing business instantly and without fees. Where your wealth and security does not depend on how much money central banks print.


Effectively there is no debt limit anyway since the ceiling is raised every time. So it has never been a limiting factor in spending.

While is true that there has never been any real limit on the debt the fact that they are publicly removing the "limit" may be a sign that the whole thing is ready to implode.  The debt currently held by the Federal Government is mathematically impossible to repay.  Even if they taxed everybody %100 of their income and we could magically survive and continue to work without income the debt could not be repaid.  There are only two options available to them, default on the debt or devalue the currency.  They will obviously choose the later since the former would lead to war.  News like this just brings us one step closer to a dollar devaluation which we have been marching towards for some time.
Just curious where you're getting your maths from.  100% tax = ~$16T annually.  Debt = ~$16T.  Debt would be repaid in just over a year.
hazek
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January 24, 2013, 11:34:34 AM
 #18

A benevolent dictator ..

Is a contradiction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNIgztvyU2U

My personality type: INTJ - please forgive my weaknesses (Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times, tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, tend to believe I'm always right)

If however you enjoyed my post: 15j781DjuJeVsZgYbDVt2NZsGrWKRWFHpp
pipboy
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January 24, 2013, 12:01:44 PM
 #19

After the Republicans caved just now (1:30 pm EST 23rd January 2013) and voted to eliminate the debt limit, the speaker Boehner said, "This is the first step in an effort to bring real fiscal responsibility to Washington."

What a joke. Right, let's bring fiscal responsibility to Washington by allowing the Treasury to borrow ANY AMOUNT OF MONEY IT WANTS.

As soon as Obama signs this bill, the Treasury can borrow UNLIMITED amounts of money. 10 trillion, 20 trillion, 100 trillion. Any amount it wants.

Get ready folks, the dollar is about to turn into garbage.

And bitcoins? Hello and welcome to the new world and way of doing business instantly and without fees. Where your wealth and security does not depend on how much money central banks print.


Effectively there is no debt limit anyway since the ceiling is raised every time. So it has never been a limiting factor in spending.

While is true that there has never been any real limit on the debt the fact that they are publicly removing the "limit" may be a sign that the whole thing is ready to implode.  The debt currently held by the Federal Government is mathematically impossible to repay.  Even if they taxed everybody %100 of their income and we could magically survive and continue to work without income the debt could not be repaid.  There are only two options available to them, default on the debt or devalue the currency.  They will obviously choose the later since the former would lead to war.  News like this just brings us one step closer to a dollar devaluation which we have been marching towards for some time.
Just curious where you're getting your maths from.  100% tax = ~$16T annually.  Debt = ~$16T.  Debt would be repaid in just over a year.

GDP is more than what 100% tax on US citizens would come out to.  More importantly the debt with unfunded liabilities included is more than $16T.

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notme
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January 24, 2013, 11:16:22 PM
 #20


Like I mentioned in the part you cut off:
if such a human could exist.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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