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Author Topic: Looking for Partner for a New Bitcoin Business  (Read 8294 times)
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January 27, 2013, 05:14:13 AM
 #41

What point are you trying to get a across? That to optimise a website you need System Engineers? Well that's kind of a given when you are looking at a scale that big.

You will have these exact same problems with MySQL when looking at that scale. You can only scale up to some extent, then you will require techniques to allow you to scale out, like using replication.

If you read the article and look at how there setup is, they obviously are locked into a scenario where they can't even change databases, so the only way they can scale is with hardware. Now you can get more performance out of MySQL but either changing the database engine, or even using a mysql build that has beter performance and is tested. Kinda like twitter. SO the point I am trying to get across is that with ASP.NET and C# the only way to scale is thru hardware, and with other options you can just switch out some software and then you can do hardware scaling. So yea what would you want to do spend cash as a startup on hardware? Or go with this proven software that is free?

No either you didn't read the link or you lack the knowledge to understand what you are reading.   Asp.net has data connectivity to a variety of RDBMS including MySql and Oracle.  However switching to MySQL wouldn't provide significnatly higher throughput on the same hardware and Oracle for the cost doesn't really make sense for the type of database they need.    The only thing which would give significantly better performance is a NO SQL setup like what Google uses but Stack Exchange didn't need that level of performance so the jump in complexity, and design using NO SQL wasn't warranted.   Maybe it would be someday if they scaled larger but given their "niche" scope it is unlikely they would ever need that level of performance so the huge code rewrite for NO SQL (not MySql) isn't warranted.   The one advantage that MySQL would have is that it easier to scaled out vs scaled up*.   Since it is more efficient when deploying SQL Server to scale up vs out that means making good hardware decisions. 

Of course we are talking about a scale of 20x to 100x larger than the largest Bitcoin enterprise.  The idea that this would be a problem for a startup is kinda laughable (it is a problem most startups wished the had). I would also point out that contrary to common knowledge MySQL is not license free unless the project is open source.   As many Bitcoin ventures are closed source they so require a MySQL license.

* Scale up would mean increasing the performance of a single (or small cluster) or database servers.  Where scale out would be replicating the database across a much larger cluster to achieve similar performance.  Since SQL Server is licensed the licensing costs are lower when scaling up vs scaling out.  The drop in server costs at the high end as well as moving storage to the SAN has made scale up less of a critical issue than in the past.   RAM has gotten a lot cheaper.  Building out a database server with quad xeons (32 cores) and 256GB or RAM as well as high end SAS controller (24x 2.5" backplane) is under $8K.   Going to 1TB of RAM, SSL offloading, and off server storage array is still under $10K.
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January 27, 2013, 05:29:06 AM
 #42

What point are you trying to get a across? That to optimise a website you need System Engineers? Well that's kind of a given when you are looking at a scale that big.

You will have these exact same problems with MySQL when looking at that scale. You can only scale up to some extent, then you will require techniques to allow you to scale out, like using replication.

If you read the article and look at how there setup is, they obviously are locked into a scenario where they can't even change databases, so the only way they can scale is with hardware. Now you can get more performance out of MySQL but either changing the database engine, or even using a mysql build that has beter performance and is tested. Kinda like twitter. SO the point I am trying to get across is that with ASP.NET and C# the only way to scale is thru hardware, and with other options you can just switch out some software and then you can do hardware scaling. So yea what would you want to do spend cash as a startup on hardware? Or go with this proven software that is free?

No either you didn't read the link or you lack the knowledge to understand what you are reading.   The only thing which would give better performance is a NO SQL setup like what Google uses but Stack Exchange didn't need that level of performance so the jump in complexity, and design using NO SQL wasn't warranted.   MySQL wouldn't magically perform better.   The one advantage that MySQL would have is that it easier to scaled out vs scaled up*.   That can be mitigated by smart hardware design.  Server should be designed to scale up in order to maximize ROI%.   

Of course we are talking about a scale roughly 50x to 100x larger than the largest Bitcoin enterprise.



*Scale up would mean increasing the performance of a single (or small cluster) or database servers.  Where scale out would be replicating the database across a much larger cluster to acheive similar performance.  Since SQL Server is licensed the licensing costs are lower when scaling up vs scaling out.

WOW dude I know your just trolling me but really you need to up your skills. The guess I have explain every little detail. Ok that article was just to show that ASP.NET only scales with hardware, cause of the tools that are presented by microsoft.

Now your also talking about NoSql which is probably not even worth it for any bitcoin business, even thou you brought up the stackoverflow reference for ASP.net. So we weren't even talking about bitcoin businesses.

Mysql can scale up and scaling out would be for data, and not traffic, so make that distinction when your posting. Also if you don't know already twitter uses a mysql build that they programmed themselves that give better performances, I actually used it so I do know what I am talking about. Also there is the replacement for MySql they works exactly like mysql you wouldn't have to change any if very little code to connect to it which is MariaDB they have a foundation as well Smiley MariaDB is very easy to scale out or up and even has more performance then twitter mysql build. MariaDB actually just got some funding so it will only become better.

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January 27, 2013, 05:35:07 AM
 #43

What point are you trying to get a across? That to optimise a website you need System Engineers? Well that's kind of a given when you are looking at a scale that big.

You will have these exact same problems with MySQL when looking at that scale. You can only scale up to some extent, then you will require techniques to allow you to scale out, like using replication.

If you read the article and look at how there setup is, they obviously are locked into a scenario where they can't even change databases, so the only way they can scale is with hardware. Now you can get more performance out of MySQL but either changing the database engine, or even using a mysql build that has beter performance and is tested. Kinda like twitter. SO the point I am trying to get across is that with ASP.NET and C# the only way to scale is thru hardware, and with other options you can just switch out some software and then you can do hardware scaling. So yea what would you want to do spend cash as a startup on hardware? Or go with this proven software that is free?

No either you didn't read the link or you lack the knowledge to understand what you are reading.   Asp.net has data connectivity to a variety of RDBMS including MySql and Oracle.  However switching to MySQL wouldn't provide significnatly higher throughput on the same hardware and Oracle for the cost doesn't really make sense for the type of database they need.    The only thing which would give significantly better performance is a NO SQL setup like what Google uses but Stack Exchange didn't need that level of performance so the jump in complexity, and design using NO SQL wasn't warranted.   Maybe it would be someday if they scaled larger but given their "niche" scope it is unlikely they would ever need that level of performance so the huge code rewrite for NO SQL (not MySql) isn't warranted.   The one advantage that MySQL would have is that it easier to scaled out vs scaled up*.   Since it is more efficient when deploying SQL Server to scale up vs out that means making good hardware decisions. 

Of course we are talking about a scale of 20x to 100x larger than the largest Bitcoin enterprise.  The idea that this would be a problem for a startup is kinda laughable (it is a problem most startups wished the had). I would also point out that contrary to common knowledge MySQL is not license free unless the project is open source.   As many Bitcoin ventures are closed source they so require a MySQL license.

* Scale up would mean increasing the performance of a single (or small cluster) or database servers.  Where scale out would be replicating the database across a much larger cluster to achieve similar performance.  Since SQL Server is licensed the licensing costs are lower when scaling up vs scaling out.  The drop in server costs at the high end as well as moving storage to the SAN has made scale up less of a critical issue than in the past.   RAM has gotten a lot cheaper.  Building out a database server with quad xeons (32 cores) and 256GB or RAM as well as high end SAS controller (24x 2.5" backplane) is under $8K.   Going to 1TB of RAM, SSL offloading, and off server storage array is still under $10K.
http://gigaom.com/2011/07/07/facebook-trapped-in-mysql-fate-worse-than-death/ - just saying.
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January 27, 2013, 05:35:26 AM
 #44

What point are you trying to get a across? That to optimise a website you need System Engineers? Well that's kind of a given when you are looking at a scale that big.

You will have these exact same problems with MySQL when looking at that scale. You can only scale up to some extent, then you will require techniques to allow you to scale out, like using replication.

If you read the article and look at how there setup is, they obviously are locked into a scenario where they can't even change databases, so the only way they can scale is with hardware. Now you can get more performance out of MySQL but either changing the database engine, or even using a mysql build that has beter performance and is tested. Kinda like twitter. SO the point I am trying to get across is that with ASP.NET and C# the only way to scale is thru hardware, and with other options you can just switch out some software and then you can do hardware scaling. So yea what would you want to do spend cash as a startup on hardware? Or go with this proven software that is free?

No either you didn't read the link or you lack the knowledge to understand what you are reading.   The only thing which would give better performance is a NO SQL setup like what Google uses but Stack Exchange didn't need that level of performance so the jump in complexity, and design using NO SQL wasn't warranted.   MySQL wouldn't magically perform better.   The one advantage that MySQL would have is that it easier to scaled out vs scaled up*.   That can be mitigated by smart hardware design.  Server should be designed to scale up in order to maximize ROI%.  

Of course we are talking about a scale roughly 50x to 100x larger than the largest Bitcoin enterprise.



*Scale up would mean increasing the performance of a single (or small cluster) or database servers.  Where scale out would be replicating the database across a much larger cluster to acheive similar performance.  Since SQL Server is licensed the licensing costs are lower when scaling up vs scaling out.

WOW dude I know your just trolling me but really you need to up your skills. The guess I have explain every little detail. Ok that article was just to show that ASP.NET only scales with hardware, cause of the tools that are presented by microsoft.

Now your also talking about NoSql which is probably not even worth it for any bitcoin business, even thou you brought up the stackoverflow reference for ASP.net. So we weren't even talking about bitcoin businesses.

Mysql can scale up and scaling out would be for data, and not traffic, so make that distinction when your posting. Also if you don't know already twitter uses a mysql build that they programmed themselves that give better performances, I actually used it so I do know what I am talking about. Also there is the replacement for MySql they works exactly like mysql you wouldn't have to change any if very little code to connect to it which is MariaDB they have a foundation as well Smiley MariaDB is very easy to scale out or up and even has more performance then twitter mysql build. MariaDB actually just got some funding so it will only become better.

Once again an entire post where you grabbed a bunch of random words and spewed it across the page without saying anything coherent.

1) You do realize that asp.net =/= SQL Server right?  You also know that Asp.net has database connectivity for every major (and lots of minor) RDMBS to include MySql?  Building asp.net application doesn't require the use of SQL Server.

2) On SQL Server vs MySQL scaling up isnt an issue.  All modern RDBMS can scale up.  Scaling out refers to using multiple servers to distribute the workload.  Get it OUT <-----> vs UP ^.     While this can be done with SQL Server the licensing costs generally making scaling UP more cost effective.   No I doubt you did realize that.  Nothing in the article talked about how "mysql would have worked but they were stuck with SQL Server".  MySql wouldn't have worked any better and unless it is an open source project MySql needs to be licensed.

3)
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twitter uses a mysql build that they programmed themselves
Yeah of course writing a custom RDBMS is something most startups are looking to do right?  Of course that custom RDBMS would also work with asp.net (and probably any other programming language).  DB =/= programming language.  Also how much cost (labor isn't free) do you think this custom RDBMS Twitter built ended up costing.  


4)
Lastly as we pointed out these are hardware scale issues way way way beyond what a startup would face.  ASP.NET and SQL Server do scale up into the "top of the web category" with sites like stackexchange which refutes your dubious claim that asp.net doesn't scale.   

Then again someone who finds a $300 conference "outrageous" likely hasn't had a very successful career in database development so don't beat yourself up for continually spewing nonsense.  I mean these are things picked up on the job and I doubt you will learn that stocking the shelves at Best Buy is very rewarding.

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January 27, 2013, 05:55:58 AM
 #45

Once again an entire post where you grabbed a bunch of random words and spewed it across the page without saying anything coherent.

1) You do realize that asp.net =/= SQL Server right?  You also know that Asp.net has database connectivity for every major (and lots of minor) RDMBS to include MySql?

2) On SQL Server vs MySQL scaling up isnt an issue.  All modern RDBMS can scale up.  Scaling out refers to using multiple servers to distribute the workload.  Get it OUT <-----> vs UP ^.     While this can be done with SQL Server the licensing costs generally making scaling UP more cost effective.   No I doubt you did realize that.  Nothing in the article talked about how "mysql would have worked but they were stuck with SQL Server".  MySql wouldn't have worked any better and unless it is an open source project MySql needs to be licensed.

3)
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twitter uses a mysql build that they programmed themselves
Yeah of course writing a custom RDBMS is something most startups are looking to do right?  Of course that custom RDBMS would also work with asp.net (and probably any other programming language).  DB =/= programming language.  Also how much cost (labor isn't free) do you think this custom RDBMS Twitter built ended up costing.  

Yes random words LMAO

1) If your going to buy a windows box for ASP.NET I am going to take a leap and say your going to get the microsoft SQL server. Thank you for enlightening me I didn't know ASP.NET is not sql, your so dumb you went off about mysql and sql and then your like did you know that asp.net is not sql. Really not like I have setup microsoft sql servers, and NoSQL (cassandra and redis) servers before and mysql servers. I never done that before LMAO

2) I am not even going to entertain this questions cause of your just shear stupidity.

3) Again refer to 1, and actually the mysql server twitter built is free on github and enlighten me about how DB is not a programming language.

It isn't like I have not worked in a Datacenter, have not created my own Relationship DB in java for a project and do not got to a fairly good Ivy League school.

Keep on trolling my good dude!

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January 27, 2013, 06:00:28 AM
 #46

Then again someone who finds a $300 conference "outrageous" likely hasn't had a very successful career in database development so don't beat yourself up for continually spewing nonsense.  I mean these are things picked up on the job and I doubt you will learn that stocking the shelves at Best Buy is very rewarding.

U mad? U MAD LMAO dude your still mad over that thread WOW LMAO don't worry butthurt lube takes care of that...

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January 27, 2013, 07:20:30 AM
 #47

I would like to just chime in again.  As I this thread has made quite obvious, the framework, language, protocols that you enventually choose are very much debatable. When discussing "specifically" a Bitcoin business, which is what the OP has stated is his intention, I restate that security should be regarded as critical to your success. One bad hack and the results are disasterous as several Bitcoin business have already found out (the hard way). As much as I am enjoying the "friendly" banter, the point is sorely being missed here. Just go with what works for YOU.

As for licensing startups can get essentially licenses for up to three years using Microsoft bizspark program.

I was unaware of Redmond's Bizspark program, as I got out of ASP well before 2008.  This is certainly a step in the right direction (a baby step at that), but nonetheless they are obviously trying to become more startup-friendly. I'd also like to mention that IE10 is again a great step in the right direction.  FINALLY, I mean FINALLY deciding to conform to the industry standards (so I don't have to build a website for EVERYONE and then IE).  If they make a version for Mac or Linux I think I'd actually be willing to install it and give it a test run.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've found little to absolutely no ASP.net support when it comes to Bitcoin.  Now, I will say that I haven't really been looking so I could have easily overlooked that fact. Back to the point, IMO the OP will probably find a smoother road to success going with a Bitcoin-friendly platform/framework/language like PHP and/or Python (I don't think C/C++ is part of this debate) based on an open-source hardware infrastructure.  Things in the Bitcoin world ARE moving rapidly and I don't see it being easy relying on MSFT forums and support channels to get answers to your (Bitcoin security related) questions.

As ALL points are valid in their own right, considering the OP (and the Bitcoin-specific nature of this business), IMO the decision is quite clear:
(WARNING: troll-bait alert)
  • NO to Windows v.Anything go with Linux v.AnyDistro
  • NO to IIS - go with Apache or Nginx
  • NO to ASP.net - go with PHP or Node.js
  • NO to SQL Server - go with MySQL (not my first choice) or PostgreSQL or FirebirdSQL (my personal favorite), even MongoDB seems to be quite interesting
You won't have to worry about licensing fees EVER-EVER and support will be plentifully abundant in the FREE forums.

For this I offer 2 bitcents,
S.

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January 27, 2013, 08:34:24 AM
 #48

Since this thread derived a bit to security & implementation concepts, I don't think I'm too off topic and it reminded me of a use case for a smartcard wallet which might not be obvious to everybody - server side security.

You can support X * chips transactions per second on a server with a very good security level for cheap - an attacker will need to keep connected to the server in order to do something useful.



Of course if you plan to compete with Visa and Mastercard, old fashioned Hardware Security Modules are still recommended, but don't come with the same price tag  Grin

(crossposted to my own thread with more details)

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January 27, 2013, 10:18:25 AM
 #49

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've found little to absolutely no ASP.net support when it comes to Bitcoin.  Now, I will say that I haven't really been looking so I could have easily overlooked that fact. Back to the point, IMO the OP will probably find a smoother road to success going with a Bitcoin-friendly platform/framework/language like PHP and/or Python (I don't think C/C++ is part of this debate) based on an open-source hardware infrastructure.  Things in the Bitcoin world ARE moving rapidly and I don't see it being easy relying on MSFT forums and support channels to get answers to your (Bitcoin security related) questions.

http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinsharp/ and http://bitcoincs.codeplex.com/ Smiley

Also - I don't think it is necessary to have language specific support for bitcoin. There is a lot of information on how bitcoin works on the wiki as well as on http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/
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January 27, 2013, 03:08:38 PM
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http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinsharp/ and http://bitcoincs.codeplex.com/ Smiley

Also - I don't think it is necessary to have language specific support for bitcoin. There is a lot of information on how bitcoin works on the wiki as well as on http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/

You are right in that it is NOT necessary, but it sure does help.  I would guess that you've never dug that deep into the Bitcoin protocol.  I have very much respect for anyone who can even understand it.  I've dedicated 100+ hours in trying to comprehend all of the crypto-jargon and its been a slow, uphill battle. My point being that if and when you need to customize / tweak your code (for some specific use case), unless you've got some sort of crypto-analyst (is that a real word?) on your team, you may find it hard pressed to achieve your goals.

BTW, the first link you sent is to a library that hasn't been updated since Oct '11 and the second was June '11. I'm sure at some point, someone thought it was a good idea to port that Java code, but it hasn't been touched since. And a .NET (dot net, ASP) search on SE came up quite skimpy (I count 2). I'm very sure there are ample and perfectly good uses for .NET, but Bitcoin is NOT one of them.

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January 27, 2013, 04:33:56 PM
 #51

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've found little to absolutely no ASP.net support when it comes to Bitcoin.  Now, I will say that I haven't really been looking so I could have easily overlooked that fact. Back to the point, IMO the OP will probably find a smoother road to success going with a Bitcoin-friendly platform/framework/language like PHP and/or Python (I don't think C/C++ is part of this debate) based on an open-source hardware infrastructure.  Things in the Bitcoin world ARE moving rapidly and I don't see it being easy relying on MSFT forums and support channels to get answers to your (Bitcoin security related) questions.

http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinsharp/ and http://bitcoincs.codeplex.com/ Smiley

Also - I don't think it is necessary to have language specific support for bitcoin. There is a lot of information on how bitcoin works on the wiki as well as on http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/

Bitcoinsharp and bitcoincs are more of librarys to be used on a desktop and functions as a wallet, and not a connection to bitcoind for web applications.

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January 27, 2013, 05:43:41 PM
 #52

http://code.google.com/p/bitcoinsharp/ and http://bitcoincs.codeplex.com/ Smiley

Also - I don't think it is necessary to have language specific support for bitcoin. There is a lot of information on how bitcoin works on the wiki as well as on http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/

You are right in that it is NOT necessary, but it sure does help.  I would guess that you've never dug that deep into the Bitcoin protocol.  I have very much respect for anyone who can even understand it.  I've dedicated 100+ hours in trying to comprehend all of the crypto-jargon and its been a slow, uphill battle. My point being that if and when you need to customize / tweak your code (for some specific use case), unless you've got some sort of crypto-analyst (is that a real word?) on your team, you may find it hard pressed to achieve your goals.

BTW, the first link you sent is to a library that hasn't been updated since Oct '11 and the second was June '11. I'm sure at some point, someone thought it was a good idea to port that Java code, but it hasn't been touched since. And a .NET (dot net, ASP) search on SE came up quite skimpy (I count 2). I'm very sure there are ample and perfectly good uses for .NET, but Bitcoin is NOT one of them.

Smiley actually I have been digging quite deep into the bitcoin protocol, I can tell you now that I have spent a lot more than 100 hours making sense of how the protocol works. Even though Bouncy Castle did make life easy.

What makes a language "good" for bitcoin? .NET does a perfectly good job. I can make the same website in .NET as I can in PHP, in a less amount of time without having to pay for additional software.

(I really don't see the need for requiring bitcoin specific help for .NET when I understand the protocol myself and can implement the code myself. Which I would much rather do anyway, that way I can ensure the code is loosely coupled and I can write unit tests for it)
 
Quote
Bitcoinsharp and bitcoincs are more of librarys to be used on a desktop and functions as a wallet, and not a connection to bitcoind for web applications.
You are wrong. I have found it quite handy being able to generate bitcoin addresses, as well as using https://blockchain.info/pushtx to push transactions to the network. No need to use a bitcoind.
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January 27, 2013, 06:18:25 PM
 #53

Quote
Bitcoinsharp and bitcoincs are more of librarys to be used on a desktop and functions as a wallet, and not a connection to bitcoind for web applications.
You are wrong. I have found it quite handy being able to generate bitcoin addresses, as well as using https://blockchain.info/pushtx to push transactions to the network. No need to use a bitcoind.

I bet you be that one that saves private keys in a database unencrypted and then when a sql injection is performed you are like OMG someone stole from me...

Bitcoind does it job and does it well

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January 27, 2013, 06:28:31 PM
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Bitcoinsharp and bitcoincs are more of librarys to be used on a desktop and functions as a wallet, and not a connection to bitcoind for web applications.
You are wrong. I have found it quite handy being able to generate bitcoin addresses, as well as using https://blockchain.info/pushtx to push transactions to the network. No need to use a bitcoind.

I bet you be that one that saves private keys in a database unencrypted and then when a sql injection is performed you are like OMG someone stole from me...

Bitcoind does it job and does it well
Actually no. I'm the kind of guy that uses a ORM (specifically http://www.mindscapehq.com/products/lightspeed) so I don't have to concentrate on making sure queries are escaped. I'm also the kind of guy that uses encryption / hashing when storing sensitive data. But thanks for sharing your concern.
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January 27, 2013, 06:33:22 PM
 #55

Quote
Bitcoinsharp and bitcoincs are more of librarys to be used on a desktop and functions as a wallet, and not a connection to bitcoind for web applications.
You are wrong. I have found it quite handy being able to generate bitcoin addresses, as well as using https://blockchain.info/pushtx to push transactions to the network. No need to use a bitcoind.

I bet you be that one that saves private keys in a database unencrypted and then when a sql injection is performed you are like OMG someone stole from me...

Bitcoind does it job and does it well
Actually no. I'm the kind of guy that uses a ORM (specifically http://www.mindscapehq.com/products/lightspeed) so I don't have to concentrate on making sure queries are escaped. I'm also the kind of guy that uses encryption / hashing when storing sensitive data. But thanks for sharing your concern.

ORM are used by you cause you don't take the time to learn about real security. I would even escape when using an ORM especially lightspeed, it aint that great of a server. I could make apache or nginx more secure anyway. Also you wouldn't use hashing to store a bitcoin private key, you would need to do a two way function probably aes so where you storing them keys?

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January 27, 2013, 06:45:01 PM
 #56

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Bitcoinsharp and bitcoincs are more of librarys to be used on a desktop and functions as a wallet, and not a connection to bitcoind for web applications.
You are wrong. I have found it quite handy being able to generate bitcoin addresses, as well as using https://blockchain.info/pushtx to push transactions to the network. No need to use a bitcoind.

I bet you be that one that saves private keys in a database unencrypted and then when a sql injection is performed you are like OMG someone stole from me...

Bitcoind does it job and does it well
Actually no. I'm the kind of guy that uses a ORM (specifically http://www.mindscapehq.com/products/lightspeed) so I don't have to concentrate on making sure queries are escaped. I'm also the kind of guy that uses encryption / hashing when storing sensitive data. But thanks for sharing your concern.

ORM are used by you cause you don't take the time to learn about real security. I would even escape when using an ORM especially lightspeed, it aint that great of a server. I could make apache or nginx more secure anyway. Also you wouldn't use hashing to store a bitcoin private key, you would need to do a two way function probably aes so where you storing them keys?
Encryption / Hashing is decided on a case by case basis. Usually when dealing with passwords I would use hashing / salting of the password. However depending on what I want to do with a bitcoin private key would depend on how I would store it.

And yup, you nailed the head on that, I use an ORM since I don't take time to learn about security.
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January 27, 2013, 06:50:40 PM
 #57

Encryption / Hashing is decided on a case by case basis. Usually when dealing with passwords I would use hashing / salting of the password. However depending on what I want to do with a bitcoin private key would depend on how I would store it.

And yup, you nailed the head on that, I use an ORM since I don't take time to learn about security.

Ohh ok so you don't know how to store private keys it is ok I could teach you for 10btc Wink

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January 27, 2013, 08:31:08 PM
 #58

gweedo,

Do you have to angrily troll every thread you participate in??

I noticed you advertise "Java, PHP, HTML/CSS Programmer for Hire!"

You're really not doing yourself or your business much good with these kind of post.

Based on your posts, If I was 12 and met you on 4chan and wanted to create a justin beiber fan site I might hire you.

But for anything related to btc, probably now.

I'm just saying...

 
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January 27, 2013, 09:01:05 PM
 #59

gweedo,

Do you have to angrily troll every thread you participate in??

I noticed you advertise "Java, PHP, HTML/CSS Programmer for Hire!"

You're really not doing yourself or your business much good with these kind of post.

Based on your posts, If I was 12 and met you on 4chan and wanted to create a justin beiber fan site I might hire you.

But for anything related to btc, probably now.

I'm just saying...

 

Can you point out my angrily troll threads, pretty much all my threads are informative until I am trolled first.

Also for my advertisement, people know when they hire my services they know they getting a hard worker that knows his stuff, and I have completed so many jobs without any complains so yeah...

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January 27, 2013, 09:33:38 PM
 #60

* Scale up would mean increasing the performance of a single (or small cluster) or database servers.  Where scale out would be replicating the database across a much larger cluster to achieve similar performance.  Since SQL Server is licensed the licensing costs are lower when scaling up vs scaling out.  The drop in server costs at the high end as well as moving storage to the SAN has made scale up less of a critical issue than in the past.   RAM has gotten a lot cheaper.  Building out a database server with quad xeons (32 cores) and 256GB or RAM as well as high end SAS controller (24x 2.5" backplane) is under $8K.   Going to 1TB of RAM, SSL offloading, and off server storage array is still under $10K.

This is exactly the point I was trying to make with scaling up on the Microsoft stack. If you were to go to Dell and build your $8k DB server, you would still need a $3000 license for Server 2008 R2 Enterprise edition (arbitrary 32 GB RAM limit with Standard; note this is better if you use Server 2012 Standard, then its just $800), and a $10,500 MS SQL Server Standard license, and even that can only use 4 of your 32 cores!!! Want to mirror your DB for redundancy? Sorry, that's Enterprise edition, (4 cores or 1CPU only even!) = $29,339.95 for each server!!!

Granted I don't keep up with MS licensing details since they change with every edition and are very confusing. But using Linux and PostgreSQL you end up with an entire redundant copy of your beefy DB server for the cost of 1 MSSQL license. This is especially bad since the MS cost doesn't hit you at the beginning on a small server when you are using their nice tools to develop it (or bizspark), but only when you need to scale to a beefy server and are already locked in.

Anyone proposing using the MS stack for a startup should be familiar with the licensing (PDF: MSSQL licensing, Windows Server licensing) up-front. It's a total mess. Even worse with VMs in the mix. That's pretty much the root of my problem with scaling with the MS stack; having just a bit of knowledge of Linux & related solutions you can run circles around an MS solution at a far lower cost. This is critically important for a startup without a reliable revenue stream.

BTW, we use the ASP.NET and MSSQL server stack where I work, and I have used it quite a bit (admittedly, for Intranet-style apps, but they get a reasonable amount of traffic.) It's great as a technical solution, but has a bad value proposition as a web startup solution.
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Then again someone who finds a $300 conference "outrageous" likely hasn't had a very successful career in database development so don't beat yourself up for continually spewing nonsense.  I mean these are things picked up on the job and I doubt you will learn that stocking the shelves at Best Buy is very rewarding.

U mad? U MAD LMAO dude your still mad over that thread WOW LMAO don't worry butthurt lube takes care of that...

Sorry, this counts as a troll thread. Granted it was a reply to a troll thread but I don't think that's the proper counter-troll response. Tongue
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