ETH really becoming a new BTC

[toknormal]

What some people here don't realise is that we are talking about money - not technology. That is a sociological phenomenon, not a technological one - a finely balanced mix of requirements that starts with having the right monetary properties (as opposed to technological ones).

Then you need a very, very long "rights of passage" phase where the asset basically gets kicked to death, challenged by competitors, FUDed left right & centre and generally proven (not as a technology, but as a monetary reserve).

The problems that bitcoin has right now are GOOD, not bad. Scaleability is a problem you DO want because it shows that despite all the adversity I listed above, adoption is happening. And I don't mean adoption in terms of retail use, I mean true adoption as a store of value - as a cryptocurrency reserve. (What do people do when they make profits ? - dump it into bitcoin. How do Ethereum holders measure the value of their asset ? = in bitcoin).

If Ethereum doesn't have the problems and crises that bitcoin has had, it's sure going to need them because otherwise it'll just be seen as a ticking time bomb. Bitcoin has had early forks, Gox, a kicking in the media, malleability scares, double-spend scares, you name it.

It has survived all of these and it now has 8 years unbroken performance as a monetary reserve under its belt.

Meanwhile, Ethereum has barely had its tyres kicked and by the time it does Bitcoin will have had another $50 Billion - $100 Billion invested in its ecosystem while Ether will have had barely a few million spent trying to get it's intra-shard contracts working.

The people running round squeeling like hyenas that Ether is going to be the next crypto-reserve and that people should "buy their bags" are hoping in vain that bitcoin doesn't survive the current blocksize crises and governance crises. But it will - just as it has survived the previous ones. The reason it will is because it has options and the miners and stakeholders know that. Short term they have options and long term they do and the fact that it's taking time is simply because there's a lot at stake.

*******************

P.S. Another thing. When Bitcoin economy gets investment, it goes directly into supporting the value of the token because bitcoin is primarily a monetary network.

When Ethereum gets investment, it doesn't. It goes towards meta technology that you can bet your bottom dollar its devs will be making blockchain independent.

[spartak_t]

What some people here don't realise is that we are talking about money - not technology. That is a sociological phenomenon, not a technological one - a finely balanced mix of requirements that starts with having the right monetary properties (as opposed to technological ones).

Then you need a very, very long "rights of passage" phase where the asset basically gets kicked to death, challenged by competitors, FUDed left right & centre and generally proven (not as a technology, but as a monetary reserve).

The problems that bitcoin has right now are GOOD, not bad. Scaleability is a problem you DO want because it shows that despite all the adversity I listed above, adoption is happening. And I don't mean adoption in terms of retail use, I mean true adoption as a store of value - as a cryptocurrency reserve. (What do people do when they make profits ? - dump it into bitcoin. How do Ethereum holders measure the value of their asset ? = in bitcoin).

If Ethereum doesn't have the problems and crises that bitcoin has had, it's sure going to need them because otherwise it's just going to be seen as a ticking time bomb. Bitcoin has had early forks, Gox, a kicking in the media, malleability scares, double-spend scares, you name it.

It has survived all of these.

The people running round squeeling like hyenas that Ether is going to be the next crypto-reserve and that people should "buy their bags" are hoping in vain that bitcoin doesn't survive the current blocksize crises and governance crises. But it will - just as it has survived the previous ones. The reason it will is because it has options and the miners and stakeholders know that. Short term they have options and long term they do and the fact that it's taking time is simply because there's a lot at stake.

You are generally right and I like how you are thinking, but Bitcoin must keep up with the adoption, and for that, it will need several hard forks. What if the core developers screw 1 of them? It will be major problem for many many people. So far it's not like a bank were money have insurance. And it is technology after all, but still a lot of people do not understand it. I have never ever looked @ the cryptocurrencies as a way to get rich in fiat. Probably that is why I am holding bags of dead coins.

[UKBob]

The centralization of BTC will lead to its downfall.  Eth is possibly a lot of smoke and mirrors but it is a fun ride just now and it has potential to go massive before common sense prevails.  It does have potential, at least if the hype is believed.  But it can also go down the dead end route that BTC has gone.

What makes ETH possibly smoke and mirrors and how has bitcoin gone down a dead end route? I am truthfully curious why you say those things.  I know little to nothing about ETH and from what I've seen with bitcoin, it is doing quite well and has been for a long time.

BTC is in the hands of a few mining companies in China - they rule the roost.  It is far too expensive for ordinary people to afford the machinery and the electricity to mine BTC.  They have the power to change supply to suit themselves and that will affect the price too.  BTC has done very well but it cannot continue to do so - there are too many alternatives and one of them will get it right.  I am not sure if it will ETH - there is far too much hype on it but there may be a basis for some of the hype.  That is why I have some - I also like Rimbit - a pre-mined coin that avoids the pitfalls that BTC cannot - check them out on Rimbit.com and say Bob sent you   BTC is not finished yet - there is still money to be made in it but I am certainly not putting my pension into it.

[toknormal]

- there are too many alternatives and one of them will get it right.

What exactly will they "get right" ?

Blockchain performance ? Anti-asic algo ? Turing completeness ? Tunnel the Great Latency-Wall of China ? The right nerd at the helm ? Multi-million dollar investments ? Support for trunk-transport payment and spam mitigation ?

All of these things and more have already been "got right" a hundred times with the flotilla of altcoins that has come our way over the last 3 years. I don't know when you started to be involved in this scene but some of us have been watching for several years for someone to "get it right" and the only one we see doing it monetarily is bitcoin.

Consider this. To become a new monetary reserve in the cryptocurrency sector, "getting it right" means surviving the rights of passage phase for 7 years with a marketcap that dominates all others. Getting ALL exchanges to denominate in your units. Getting a couple of hundred billion to de-invest and re-invest in an entire new technological base and customer sector, and getting $6 billion worth of holdings to do likeways.

Matching bitcoin for marketcap doesn't cut it. It would be a 10-year uphill job from here if it was even on the cards and there's no competitor in sight thats out of the foothills.

[fullzero]

IMO most of the interest in ETH has been to profit from it.  There seem to be many who idly say it will --insert future here-- without any specifics.  They are spouting ambiguities.  I also suspect most of these profiteers don't know how to use the actual client; keeping their ETH in their exchange wallets.  Tell me I'm wrong; and explain how.

[Spoetnik]

IMO most of the interest in ETH has been to profit from it.  There seem to be many who idly say it will --insert future here-- without any specifics.  They are spouting ambiguities.  I also suspect most of these profiteers don't know how to use the actual client; keeping their ETH in their exchange wallets.  Tell me I'm wrong; and explain how.

Let's all get together and pretend we care about currency's trying to rally around coin #7,001
we'll all pretend that not all of us here are only interested in one thing.. profit.
What we'll do is create some "App's" block-chain thingy ma-jigger then tack on a "token"
then we'll prance around marching whimsically swinging our elbows around all exaggerated up high..
(like a little kid marching around in Daddy's much too big shoes) it will be cute & adorable!
awwwww Look at precocious little Jimmy buying ETH - The Bitcoin Killer ..with his lunch money Mom gave him for school.
He'll tell his friends at school during recess about the plans for DAPPS and how it's backed by some famous Russian dude!

Later When ETH is dumped precocious little Jimmy will be trying to slide his arm away..
from under ETH like a guy who got drunk & picked up a fat chick at the bar.



But sadly little Jimmy "school-yard financial expert" fresh out of diapers won't make it to school today guys..  
you see on the way to school he's going to get lured into a van with promises of "Bitcoin Profits"

But it's ok though.. Jimmy will live (maybe with a sore red read-end and a little embarrassed / hiding his shame at Bitcointalk)

So.. Today's letters are I, P & O

and what did we learn today kids? Stay AWAY from the IPO Rape Van!

[UKBob]

@Spoetnik - brilliant response, and probably accurate too.  However the ride on ETH will be good for quite a while longer.  I am not sure how to describe this with your metaphor though!

@toknormal - I agree with you mostly - BTC are way ahead of everyone else, put together, just now.  But just wait until the Chinese miners really start to flex the power they have.  That is the problem with BTC that cannot be overcome - it is now centralised with 20 off mining companies who are interested in max profits, not the community.

[McDonalds5]

Do you mean that ethereum is complete scam and will be permanently dumped soon?

[stoat]

So the only problem people seem to have with ETH is that they don't own any.

Seems about right.

If you can show me one single cryptocurrency that had a fairer distribution i will shut up.

There is literally no fairer way to fund a project and distribute a coin than an ico.

There are also ETH faucets that have been available for months.

Its also freely mineable to anyone who wanted to mine it.

The reason people are buying ETH is because the dev team are very transparent with what they are doing and it's actually the least scammy and unfair cryptos available, and it's a genuine innovation with actual real world applications.


What is the point of the FUD anyway,  all I can see is that ETH has not hurt bitcoins market cap at all, and that it's revitalised the altcoin market as all manner of coins are now growing.

Not only that, ethereum is opening up new markets for crypto and legitimising it.  So all in all a great benefit to everybody.

[toknormal]

So the only problem people seem to have with ETH is that they don't own any.

No it isn't.

I bought the IPO 2 years ago and dumped it variously at 0.032, 0.031, 0.028 and 0.024.

So it's not a question of not owning any, it's a question of what to do with the profits and whats a store of that value and what isn't. (Profits, of course which are measured in BTC not Ether).

If you can show me one single cryptocurrency that had a fairer distribution i will shut up.

I very much doubt that  

The reason people are buying ETH is because the dev team are very transparent bla bla....

No it isn't. The reason they're buying it is because they think they can earn more BTC.

What is the point of the FUD anyway,  all I can see is that ETH has not hurt bitcoins market cap at all, and that it's revitalised the altcoin market as all manner of coins are now growing.

Not only that, ethereum is opening up new markets for crypto and legitimising it.  So all in all a great benefit to everybody.

Ok. At last you said something I might agree with  

P.S. Regarding stores of value, if Ether can get a NET INVESTMENT (excess of buys over sales) of quarter to half a million BTC over the next 12 months to cover mining supply then it might just manage to maintain its current price assuming miners do what they always do.

I make that $100 to $213 million dollars at current exchange rates on condition that BTC doesn't increase its marketcap at all. Rootstock, Lisk, run Ethereum Daaps on the Counteparty blockchain, run Ethereum apps on the Bitcoin blockchain...run them on any blockchain !

Talk about having to paddle fast to stand still - should keep you fit  

[Spoetnik]

Since users seem to think "Halving" is a guaranteed 100% trip to the Moon..
When BTC halves soon enough expect guys to mass super dump ETH and all coins.
It will be an exodus ..people fumbling over each other to dump their "boring" IPO coins.
And stoat what TYPE of coin will they be after ?
A more fairer one.. a mined one ..one called Bitcoin.

And stoat why do you think we all want you to be quiet ?
You must be aware you are spamming nonsense with that admission / offer.

Further more once again for the 5th time you have ignored my question and cried FUD.

Who are you stoat ?

[zeitman007]

ETH is being backed by Microsoft and is being deployed in blockchain business solution.  Bitcoin has yet to do this.  I dont think BTC will take over ETH but its definitely a stronger competitor.  I see it like this, first was BTC, that set the standard for digital currency.  It was just a matter of time before smart people got together and said, "How can we improve it?".  ETH was born.

Compare it to computers.  BTC is an old Pentium II and ETH is a Pentium 4.  Both work, but one is faster and has better technology, but the Pentium 4 was built from the Pentium II.  The the 4 would never have existed without the II.  Just a step in the evolution for crypto.  Make sense?

[toknormal]

Compare it to computers.  BTC is an old Pentium II and ETH is a Pentium 4.  Both work, but one is faster and has better technology, but the Pentium 4 was built from the Pentium II.  The the 4 would never have existed without the II.  Just a step in the evolution for crypto.  Make sense?

Yeah. That makes sense - for a technological investment, but not a monetary one.

As I've been trying to point out, where Bitcoin is concerned we're not talking about technology - we're talking about money.

To see the difference, consider a mid 1960's top of the range IBM typewriter - like one of these.

Cost around $500 at the time which works out at 14 Ounces of Gold at 1960's gold price. Today, you couldn't buy a single iPhone with a hundred of those typewriters, yet you could buy 22 iPhones with 14 Ounces of gold.

Thats the difference between investing in a monetary reserve and a technological advantage of the day. It's also the difference between Bitcoin and Ethereum. No doubt there was a time when shares in typewriter companies went up against Gold as well.

Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency reserve. Ethereum is a tech startup. They are probably both investable for different reasons, but just because Twitter shares went up against Bitcoin, no-one is saying that Twitter is the "next Bitcoin".

[stoat]

Since users seem to think "Halving" is a guaranteed 100% trip to the Moon..
When BTC halves soon enough expect guys to mass super dump ETH and all coins.
It will be an exodus ..people fumbling over each other to dump their "boring" IPO coins.
And stoat what TYPE of coin will they be after ?
A more fairer one.. a mined one ..one called Bitcoin.

And stoat why do you think we all want you to be quiet ?
You must be aware you are spamming nonsense with that admission / offer.

Further more once again for the 5th time you have ignored my question and cried FUD.

Who are you stoat ?

Who are you? Who is anybody?

You're an idiot that's good enough for me.

[Spoetnik]

Since users seem to think "Halving" is a guaranteed 100% trip to the Moon..
When BTC halves soon enough expect guys to mass super dump ETH and all coins.
It will be an exodus ..people fumbling over each other to dump their "boring" IPO coins.
And stoat what TYPE of coin will they be after ?
A more fairer one.. a mined one ..one called Bitcoin.

And stoat why do you think we all want you to be quiet ?
You must be aware you are spamming nonsense with that admission / offer.

Further more once again for the 5th time you have ignored my question and cried FUD.

Who are you stoat ?

Who are you? Who is anybody?

You're an idiot that's good enough for me.

Thanks.. that helps me a lot to show how much of a fool you are.
That is a very dumb thing to say.

Who am i ?
Everyone already knows..
Show me one person here who has gone to such great lengths sharing personal information.
(besides maybe Gleb Gamow) but he is far more a BTC guy than an Altcoin guy.
And yeah i would take it a step further and give you all my god damn ID and my picture (AGAIN)
but all you snotty mouthy hiding little shit cowards out there do is Troll the shit out of me 24/7.
I stumbled onto a topic while back where some random asshole posted my Picture + name and IP address
and was trying to get the world after me.. agaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaain
Why ? ..because i had criticized his shit coin.
Oh and by the way want to see me "Threats collection" ?
One guy was trying to hire a hitman with Bitcoin to have me killed. (i already brought this up lots)

But stoat.. who are YOU ?

Who am i ?
- Long time piracy / file sharing advocate.
- Death Metal music fan.
- Self Taught Coder.
- Self Taught cracker (Reverse Engineering)
- *previously* Self employed running a PC repair business for 5 years. (rough estimate)
- Opinionated know it all from Kelowna, BC, Canada that puts his money where his mouth is.

Like last night i told my room-mate again i could make his fucked up laptop run like new.
He screwed it up enough he couldn't get online..
Point being is he was leery about my bragging and getting me to work on it.
Why ? Because he told me everyone has said that too and it's still fucked up ROFL
I had his machine running a factory fresh install with his Google Chrome loaded so he could "Facebook"
In less than an hour.
I have done work for the Govt up to International companies to small mom & pop business's.
And prob 100's of average people.
never once failed.. never once got bad feedback.
I deliver. (when others are running their mouth)

Who am i stoat ?
I am a guy who registered his account here long before you did and shared in the learning experience with many others.
I had no trading experience before this so i had to learn the terminology and techniques for trading.. the hard way.
And with 0 cents invested i managed to turn a small fraction of 1 Feathercoin into around 12 thousand dollars profit.
Then i decided to cash out every single bit of it and spend it.
I also did it with out supporting Scam coins like scammy IPO bullshit like ETH.
I also have delved into working on coding CPU or GPU miner mod's.
I could go on but i have said all this lots already..
And if someone wanted to know a bit of searching would turn all of this up.

But stoat if i go searching for your stoat what will i see ?
nothing.. you only just created your account
and have been hiding any & all personal info so we have no idea who you are or why you came here.

stoat i am an open-book and you on the other hand are snotty insulting spammer little coward hiding.
You only ever seem to play hide & seek and leave snotty replies.
After i post this your going to hide again and some other handful of noob accounts
will replace you for a while posting the same styled shit hype ETH trash comments.

Summary ?
stoat is a chicken shit spammer hiding.
And LIKE my IPO shit coin or i will hire a hitman to murder you!!!

[mining1]

Guys,really,am i the only one thats skipping spotnik's posts?Just dont read them.You'll thank me later.

[fullzero]

So the only problem people seem to have with ETH is that they don't own any.

I don't have a problem with ETH; its market volatility = massive ping pong trade gains. It has also made GPU mining profitable for me again.  In general, I only have one problem with ETH shills; they tend to talk shit about BTC as a means of promoting ETH.  No person, network, or organization is better because another is worse.  You cannot generate merit by mudslinging. 

With this in mind; please respond to my previous post:

IMO most of the interest in ETH has been to profit from it.  There seem to be many who idly say it will --insert future here-- without any specifics.  They are spouting ambiguities.  I also suspect most of these profiteers don't know how to use the actual client; keeping their ETH in their exchange wallets.  Tell me I'm wrong; and explain how.

[UKBob]

IMO most of the interest in ETH has been to profit from it.  There seem to be many who idly say it will --insert future here-- without any specifics.  They are spouting ambiguities.  I also suspect most of these profiteers don't know how to use the actual client; keeping their ETH in their exchange wallets.  Tell me I'm wrong; and explain how.

This is an excellent question and one that most ETH people cannot answer.  I am one of those who likes ETH, has a very sketchy understanding of why "it is brilliant" or why "it is the future".  It is something that is fun to play with because the price goes up and down - too many coins stand still, or more accurately are lying flat comatose.  I have no idea how to use the client and all my ETH is stored in C-Cex.  But it is a fun ride!  I am putting my profits from ETH into my other favourite coin, which is Rimbit and that I do believe has a good future.


You are not wrong IMHO in what you say about ETH.

[lembang]

better all

nice coin

etc

[fullzero]

So the only problem people seem to have with ETH is that they don't own any.

I don't have a problem with ETH; its market volatility = massive ping pong trade gains. It has also made GPU mining profitable for me again.  In general, I only have one problem with ETH shills; they tend to talk shit about BTC as a means of promoting ETH.  No person, network, or organization is better because another is worse.  You cannot generate merit by mudslinging. 

With this in mind; please respond to my previous post:

IMO most of the interest in ETH has been to profit from it.  There seem to be many who idly say it will --insert future here-- without any specifics.  They are spouting ambiguities.  I also suspect most of these profiteers don't know how to use the actual client; keeping their ETH in their exchange wallets.  Tell me I'm wrong; and explain how.

Notice the lack of response