US Citizens! Do Your Part! Don't Let Senator Schumer Ban/Limit Bitcoin

[hazek]

I made a thread about it on ronpaulforums so hopefully will get some backup on this issue.

[TraderTimm]

Politicians are already irrelevant.

They just don't know it yet.

What keeps the wheels turning in this country? The flow of money. What do politicians do? They enact laws that primarily deal with monetary policies, whether it be for financing projects (pork barrel or otherwise), real estate or employment.

Time to wake up guys, bitcoin undercuts them all. Every. Single. One.

What if we had elections and nobody voted, because they had the means to support themselves, make transactions with merchants and just be able to live comfortably?

I know, you say, basic services are needed. Someone has to take out the trash, police the streets, teach our children, etc..

Guess how those could be funded? It wouldn't even be a tax anymore - you'd just contribute directly for the services you needed according to where you lived. The best part - it would be a market deciding this, not the whims of some corrupt, overpaid politician.

This is where we are headed, make no mistake.

[swusc2]

Politicians are already irrelevant.

They just don't know it yet.

What keeps the wheels turning in this country? The flow of money. What do politicians do? They enact laws that primarily deal with monetary policies, whether it be for financing projects (pork barrel or otherwise), real estate or employment.

Time to wake up guys, bitcoin undercuts them all. Every. Single. One.

What if we had elections and nobody voted, because they had the means to support themselves, make transactions with merchants and just be able to live comfortably?

I know, you say, basic services are needed. Someone has to take out the trash, police the streets, teach our children, etc..

Guess how those could be funded? It wouldn't even be a tax anymore - you'd just contribute directly for the services you needed according to where you lived. The best part - it would be a market deciding this, not the whims of some corrupt, overpaid politician.

This is where we are headed, make no mistake.

People like you have your head up in the clouds don't understand or realize the key issues:

Anyone can say Bitcoin's fundamental values make it effectively better than anything and strictly because it is better it will succeed. Any sociologist will tell you, you are terribly ignorant if you believe that. The best technology, the best economic policy, the best doesn't always win in capitalism. You should "Not just use Bitcoin" but support it politically and socially. Don't just sit smugly on your ivory tower thinking your best when there are bulldozers waiting to just crush half of it. What would you rather have a small US Bitcoin community forced to work under the table or a widely accepted form of currency?

Take online poker in the U.S. for example the only reason it is even holding on is because of litigation and support from the poker community. The government ignorantly banned it and if no one decided to go against it and just sat there saying well "I know it should be legal" you would be shit out of luck.

Sure, suppose Bitcoin might be the best thing since sliced bread and its universal adoption may be inevitable. But why would you intentionally slow its development by not doing things you are fully capable of.

[TraderTimm]

People like you have your head up in the clouds don't understand or realize the key issues:

Anyone can say Bitcoin's fundamental values make it effectively better than anything and strictly because it is better it will succeed. Any sociologist will tell you, you are terribly ignorant if you believe that. The best technology, the best economic policy, the best doesn't always win in capitalism. You should "Not just use Bitcoin" but support it politically and socially. Don't just sit smugly on your ivory tower thinking your best when there are bulldozers waiting to just crush half of it. What would you rather have a small US Bitcoin community forced to work under the table or a widely accepted form of currency?

Take online poker in the U.S. for example the only reason it is even holding on is because of litigation and support from the poker community. The government ignorantly banned it and if no one decided to go against it and just sat there saying well "I know its legal" you would be shit out of luck.

Your mistake is making the assumption that the USA is the world. I live in the USA, and even I know that. What politicians do here and abroad don't mean jack. They can't even stop something they 'declare war on'. How are they going to stop this? Shut down the entire internet - worldwide?

I know everyone has been brought up on the thought that government is out to help us, but guess what, they don't give a flying shit about *you*, the voter. Only when they need you do they even try to make a token effort to communicate.

The system is due for an overhaul, and cutting their legs off, in the form of a free currency will provide such an opportunity. We won't have to care when we have a global medium of exchange, outside of their control.

Think a little bigger, I promise it won't hurt much.

[swusc2]

People like you have your head up in the clouds don't understand or realize the key issues:

Anyone can say Bitcoin's fundamental values make it effectively better than anything and strictly because it is better it will succeed. Any sociologist will tell you, you are terribly ignorant if you believe that. The best technology, the best economic policy, the best doesn't always win in capitalism. You should "Not just use Bitcoin" but support it politically and socially. Don't just sit smugly on your ivory tower thinking your best when there are bulldozers waiting to just crush half of it. What would you rather have a small US Bitcoin community forced to work under the table or a widely accepted form of currency?

Take online poker in the U.S. for example the only reason it is even holding on is because of litigation and support from the poker community. The government ignorantly banned it and if no one decided to go against it and just sat there saying well "I know its legal" you would be shit out of luck.

Your mistake is making the assumption that the USA is the world. I live in the USA, and even I know that. What politicians do here and abroad don't mean jack. They can't even stop something they 'declare war on'. How are they going to stop this? Shut down the entire internet - worldwide?

I know everyone has been brought up on the thought that government is out to help us, but guess what, they don't give a flying shit about *you*, the voter. Only when they need you do they even try to make a token effort to communicate.

The system is due for an overhaul, and cutting their legs off, in the form of a free currency will provide such an opportunity. We won't have to care when we have a global medium of exchange, outside of their control.

Think a little bigger, I promise it won't hurt much.

What you don't seem to understand is that while "you" might mean diddly squat the effect "you" on someone else maybe a friend or a friends friend. Sooner or later you rally enough support and those who has substantial say and then the ability to lobby for whats right instead of just letting people fuck around with you because you don't think you make a difference.

While the US might not have direct affects on other countries what you don't realize is if Bitcoin does go down in the US sure Bitcoin might be fine and dandy. BUT WHY WOULD YOU NOT TRY TO PREVENT IT GOING DOWN IN THE US ANYWAYS?

I'm not saying let US regulate Bitcoin. I'm saying don't let them BAN it. Those are two completely different ideas.

We aren't people who can just live through ideals. People have realistic jobs and have to make a living. It takes time to get great things going, the path it takes matters in the real world. If you can think so big stop paying for your internet with USD help Bitcoin even more by not using USD at all. Good luck with that.

[TraderTimm]

What you don't seem to understand is that while "you" might mean diddly squat the effect "you" on someone else maybe a friend or a friends friend. Sooner or later you rally enough support and those who has substantial say and then the ability to lobby for whats right instead of just letting people fuck around with you because you don't think you make a difference.

While the US might not have direct affects on other countries what you don't realize is if Bitcoin does go down in the US sure Bitcoin might be fine and dandy. BUT WHY WOULD YOU NOT TRY TO PREVENT IT GOING DOWN IN THE US ANYWAYS?

I'm not saying let US regulate Bitcoin. I'm saying don't let them BAN it. Those are two completely different ideas.

We aren't people who can just live through ideals. People have realistic jobs and have to make a living.

I am preventing it. I run the client. That is all we have to do. If they come for us - they'll have to deal with other strategies which include leaving the continental united states. Not everyone has that option, true, but I'm willing to go where I can be free - not just dream about it.

[swusc2]

What you don't seem to understand is that while "you" might mean diddly squat the effect "you" on someone else maybe a friend or a friends friend. Sooner or later you rally enough support and those who has substantial say and then the ability to lobby for whats right instead of just letting people fuck around with you because you don't think you make a difference.

While the US might not have direct affects on other countries what you don't realize is if Bitcoin does go down in the US sure Bitcoin might be fine and dandy. BUT WHY WOULD YOU NOT TRY TO PREVENT IT GOING DOWN IN THE US ANYWAYS?

I'm not saying let US regulate Bitcoin. I'm saying don't let them BAN it. Those are two completely different ideas.

We aren't people who can just live through ideals. People have realistic jobs and have to make a living.

I am preventing it. I run the client. That is all we have to do. If they come for us - they'll have to deal with other strategies which include leaving the continental united states. Not everyone has that option, true, but I'm willing to go where I can be free - not just dream about it.

"I am preventing it. I run the client. That is all we have to do. If they come for us - they'll have to deal with other strategies which include leaving the continental united states. Not everyone has that option, true, but I'm willing to go where I can be free - not just dream about it."

YOU are not Bitcoin. Most people who use Bitcoin are people who can not "just get up an leave" your views undercuts the base of people who use Bitcoin and the base of Bitcoin is what drives Bitcoin.

Then why don't you stop using USD why don't you move to some deserted island because technically in your view of idealism you aren't free anywhere there is government. This is the idealism that hurts Bitcoin, its also called intentional inaction.

[TraderTimm]

Then why don't you stop using USD why don't you move to some deserted island because technically in your view of idealism you aren't free anywhere there is government. This is the idealism that hurts Bitcoin, its also called intentional inaction.

I'd rather not, I am only expressing that I am willing to stand up for what I believe in. I don't see how that 'hurts' bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't care, just as long as I'm willing to trade with it and continue to tell people about it. It is a currency, not a girlfriend.

Inaction? I'd call the willingness to move several thousand miles anything *but* inaction, but I guess we can rationalize anything if we put our minds to it.

Here's the bottom line - governments will try to mess with bitcoin, banks will, anyone with a link to the legacy system will. We know this. So prepare. Even if it means running a client or a miner in your basement and never telling the neighbors about it, so you don't get raided by the special police task force dedicated to eradicating free currencies from the land (if that ever comes to pass), it counts.

Every act of defiance counts.

That is why bitcoin matters.

[swusc2]

I'd rather not, I am only expressing that I am willing to stand up for what I believe in. I don't see how that 'hurts' bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't care, just as long as I'm willing to trade with it and continue to tell people about it. It is a currency, not a girlfriend.

Yes growth supports the legitimacy of Bitcoin but that alone doesn't make Bitcoin legitimate in the eyes of others.

Inaction? I'd call the willingness to move several thousand miles anything *but* inaction, but I guess we can rationalize anything if we put our minds to it.

If someone wants to burn down your house. You don't just let them do it move else where. The idea is you are avoiding doing something that prevents you from having to get up and leave. You are letting it be illegitimized even though there are obvious other things that you can do.  

Here's the bottom line - governments will try to mess with bitcoin, banks will, anyone with a link to the legacy system will. We know this. So prepare. Even if it means running a client or a miner in your basement and never telling the neighbors about it, so you don't get raided by the special police task force dedicated to eradicating free currencies from the land (if that ever comes to pass), it counts.

And while you are doing it you have to actually have utilities and live a normal life. We aren't all vigilantes we want to be allowed to be normal people who are using a legitimate currency. Not Batman.

Every act of defiance counts.

Point exactly.

That is why bitcoin matters.

[TraderTimm]

Yes growth supports the legitimacy of Bitcoin but that alone doesn't make Bitcoin legitimate in the eyes of others.

If someone wants to burn down your house. You don't just let them do it move else where. The idea is you are avoiding doing something that prevents you from having to get up and leave. You are letting it be illegitimized even though there are obvious other things that you can do.  

And while you are doing it you have to actually have utilities and live a normal life. We aren't all vigilantes we want to be allowed to be normal people who are using a legitimate currency. Not Batman.

That is why bitcoin matters.

I can do it all, you know, make everyone think bitcoin is 'legit'. It will prove that on its own accord, when they get paid their salary in it.

So, you are saying I need to protest a corrupt system using minimal resources and zero political backing? Guess what, the internet has a way of dealing with defective nodes, it just routes around it, because it is the best strategy when dealing with a lost cause. We don't have to 'do' anything with these politicians, just let them sputter and murmur, pass some ineffectual legislation - then move on to getting elected again - which is all they really care about.

I get it, green toilet paper is commonly accepted - but I'm thinking about the future where that commodity will be used for wiping your backside, not picking up a six pack and some smokes.

Just support the system, however you can. And that includes using bitcoins to buy knitted scarves from your grandma. Every damn transaction counts when it doesn't involve green toilet paper dollars.

[swusc2]

Yes growth supports the legitimacy of Bitcoin but that alone doesn't make Bitcoin legitimate in the eyes of others.

If someone wants to burn down your house. You don't just let them do it move else where. The idea is you are avoiding doing something that prevents you from having to get up and leave. You are letting it be illegitimized even though there are obvious other things that you can do.  

And while you are doing it you have to actually have utilities and live a normal life. We aren't all vigilantes we want to be allowed to be normal people who are using a legitimate currency. Not Batman.

That is why bitcoin matters.

I can do it all, you know, make everyone think bitcoin is 'legit'. It will prove that on its own accord, when they get paid their salary in it.

So, you are saying I need to protest a corrupt system using minimal resources and zero political backing? Guess what, the internet has a way of dealing with defective nodes, it just routes around it, because it is the best strategy when dealing with a lost cause. We don't have to 'do' anything with these politicians, just let them sputter and murmur, pass some ineffectual legislation - then move on to getting elected again - which is all they really care about.

I get it, green toilet paper is commonly accepted - but I'm thinking about the future where that commodity will be used for wiping your backside, not picking up a six pack and some smokes.

Just support the system, however you can. And that includes using bitcoins to buy knitted scarves from your grandma. Every damn transaction counts when it doesn't involve green toilet paper dollars.

If you are spending more money "Green toilet paper", in effect supporting it under your definition that using a money is all the support you need to do, to try to make Bitcoin legitimate the gap remains the same. That's why people need to work with what we have now. Legitimate and competitive is a lot better than illegitimate and noncompetitive if you want to spread ideas around.

And if you really don't think that if a country find Bitcoins a threat and doesn't fully understand, that other countries aren't going to come to similar conclusions? Unless we adopt the United States of Bitcoin your idealism isn't realistic.

Actually stop trolling what was once a productive discussion. If you don't have anything to productive to add and all you can say is: I'm an anarchists, I don't care about what normal people have to do, don't do anything more to support Bitcoin than just use it. Start your own thread.

[TraderTimm]

If you are spending more money "Green toilet paper", in effect supporting it under your definition that using a money is all the support you need to do, to try to make Bitcoin legitimate the gap remains the same. That's why people need to work with what we have now. Legitimate and competitive is a lot better than illegitimate and noncompetitive if you want to spread ideas around.

And if you really don't think that if a country find Bitcoins a threat and doesn't fully understand, that other countries aren't going to come to similar conclusions? Unless we adopt the United States of Bitcoin your idealism isn't realistic.

You yourself admitted that we have a hybrid system until bitcoin dominates. I support nothing - I have GTP in my possession because of its 'mindshare' at the moment. I'm converting GTP into bitcoins at the rate I can.

Bitcoin is already 'legit' as a currency, the rest will follow.

I do think that many people will consider bitcoin a threat and choose to restrict it rather than embrace it. That is the whole crux of my argument, to be prepared for this reaction.

Idealism isn't realistic when not backed up by facts, but I do know the facts.

Bitcoin will win.

The green toilet paper dollar will lose.

Pick your side.

[swusc2]

If you are spending more money "Green toilet paper", in effect supporting it under your definition that using a money is all the support you need to do, to try to make Bitcoin legitimate the gap remains the same. That's why people need to work with what we have now. Legitimate and competitive is a lot better than illegitimate and noncompetitive if you want to spread ideas around.

And if you really don't think that if a country find Bitcoins a threat and doesn't fully understand, that other countries aren't going to come to similar conclusions? Unless we adopt the United States of Bitcoin your idealism isn't realistic.

You yourself admitted that we have a hybrid system until bitcoin dominates. I support nothing - I have GTP in my possession because of its 'mindshare' at the moment. I'm converting GTP into bitcoins at the rate I can.

Bitcoin is already 'legit' as a currency, the rest will follow.

I do think that many people will consider bitcoin a threat and choose to restrict it rather than embrace it. That is the whole crux of my argument, to be prepared for this reaction.

Idealism isn't realistic when not backed up by facts, but I do know the facts.

Bitcoin will win.

The green toilet paper dollar will lose.

Pick your side.

Belligerence doesn't win wars, neither physical nor intellectual wars. People are too busying deciding what side they are on and not actually doing things to support "that side".

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

For all those of you who think government might ban bitcoins due to it being used to buy drugs: wake up! It's not the drugs or money laundering the problem! It's the lack of monetary and financial control over people!

You may whine how much you want, but trying to explain to these jerks in power that bitcoin is not only about drugs is just useless. The annoyance that bitcoin represents to the DEA is not nearly as serious as the threat that bitcoin represents to the Fed and to the government ability to tax its subjects.

Drugs, money laundering or whatever, are just the excuses.

Bitcoin is all about taking the power from the government and bringing it back to the people, by allowing us to have a much stronger control of our money. Most big governments out there won't accept that nicely. Get used to it.

[swusc2]

For all those of you who think government might ban bitcoins due to it being used to buy drugs: wake up! It's not the drugs or money laundering the problem! It's the lack of monetary and financial control over people!

You may whine how much you want, but trying to explain to these jerks in power that bitcoin is not only about drugs is just useless. The annoyance that bitcoin represents to the DEA is not nearly as serious as the threat that bitcoin represents to the Fed and to the government ability to tax its subjects.

Drugs, money laundering or whatever, are just the excuses.

Bitcoin is all about taking the power from the government and bringing it back to the people, by allowing us to have a much stronger control of our money. Most big governments out there won't accept that nicely. Get used to it.

There is probably some truth to this. But a lot of people on Bitcoin don't seem to understand. They are belligerent an intentionally antagonize as if they are looking for them to react negatively. What we have are pebbles right now and we are trying to overtake giants. Instead of intentionally antagonizing, we should have just been doing our own thing and amass some clout and real substantial considerations.

[seafunk]

Guys, I'm really no expert on economy, but to me it seems relatively simple: We replace our country's currency with bitcoins, eventually noone wants our country's currency anymore, leading to inflation. All gouvernments will do anything in their power to limit the use of bitcoins as much as possible imho. To me the question is WHEN they will act and HOW it is gonna influence the bitcoin popularity. It never hurt other p2p software, but people didn't pay money for that. Then again, people don't really pay money for bitcoins either, they generate them.

Scenario 1: Bitcoins become really popular, 1 billion people on the world by now earn bitcoins when the major gouvernments declare war on it. This leads to an uprising and eventually a civil war.

Scenario 2: The govs react quickly with very effective propaganda and the value of bitcoins will fall for a long time.

Scenario 3: The govs do all in their power, sooner or later, but the bitcoin market florishes nonetheless.


Today's btc value developement seems related to all those news reports if you ask me. I'm ofc hoping it'll rise and I wouldnt mind a civil war scenario either. Its about time we see some blood, at least where I live it is. Now think of some 3rd world countries...

[papajohn56]

Schumer is the same tool who cracked down on Four Loko for the caffeine.  Don't you have bigger things to worry about you asshat.

[lolmiepp]

*i just sent it

[Anonymous]

They will probably just get ICE to seize bitcoin.org because someone will claim you can use bitcoin to buy pirated material.

[FlipPro]

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