Satoshi Roundtable Thoughts - Gavin Andresen

[CIYAM]

Why not separating the issue

1 ) Try do 2MB

2) If does not help work on incentives for filling blocks (not with fake..)

If it were a completely simple and painless thing to do it would have already been done (although I understand that Gavin keeps trying to promote that it is).

A hard-fork is *not* a completely simple and painless thing to do (and that is required to do this).

Also if SegWit is adopted then it basically ends up being an equivalent improvement but via a soft-fork (which is less painful).

I think it is clear that a hard-fork will happen so now it is just a question of when that will happen.

[hv_]

Why not separating the issue

1 ) Try do 2MB

2) If does not help work on incentives for filling blocks (not with fake..)

If it were a completely simple and painless thing to do it would have already been done (although I understand that Gavin keeps trying to promote that it is).

A hard-fork is *not* a completely simple and painless thing to do (and that is required to do this).

3) Do hard forks on regular base

[CIYAM]

3) Do hard forks on regular base

Why on earth would you propose that?

You do realise that means everyone needs to upgrade their software?

(or perhaps you think of Bitcoin as being like your anti-virus software)

[hv_]

3) Do hard forks on regular base

Why on earth would you propose that?

You do realise that means everyone needs to upgrade their software?

(or perhaps you confuse Bitcoin with your anti-virus software)

Hm - easy.  a) You said it's an issue.  b) Monero does it fine...

[franky1]

the majority of blocks are not 1tx

here


1 out of 14 has 0.2mb

1 is 700kb~

the other 12 are 900+

so now i dare you to check out the last 144 blocks (one day) and tell me the percentage of blocks that are not just with 1tx, (ill help you out to give you better percentages) but blocks under 500k

now i know you dont think 75% is a majority (i recall u debating that before) so instead of using your own 95% majority preference, i will help you out again..

show me statistics that 50% or more blocks are 250bytes-500kb..

or concede that the majority are not making empty blocks.

there i didnt even have to make you reveal the very small amount of empty blocks by letting o pad the numbers with half filled blocks

[CIYAM]

Hm - easy.  a) You said it's an issue.  b) Monero does it fine...

Monero is an alt with nothing like the capital that Bitcoin has behind it.

So sure - an alt can hard-fork every day of the week and no-one will complain but Bitcoin is not an alt.

[CIYAM]

the majority of blocks are not 1tx

Why is it that you have such a hard time in understanding what I post (that you have to twist it and basically *lie*).

I never said that the majority of blocks are 1 tx did I?

(idiot)

You should take some lessons in "honesty" from someone (as all you do is misquote people and try to put fake words in their mouths).

It's no wonder you have no respect in this forum @franky1 as you are anything but "frank'.

(go ahead and keep making a fool of yourself - am pretty sure others are noticing you're rather good at that)

[franky1]

ur avoiding showing the statistics.

so show the 'majority' (50% blocks 50% filled) and you win the debate that there is no priority.

if you want to win the priority debate.. show that using statistics

[CIYAM]

Let's just go with this point - the majority of mining is in China (where also the majority of 1 tx blocks come from)

show me the majority?

You are truly *dense* aren't you?

I said (as you quoted) that China is where the "majority of 1 tx blocks come from".

I did not say "that the majority of blocks have 1 tx" did I?

(how about you slap yourself in the face and try and wake up)

[hv_]

Hm - easy.  a) You said it's an issue.  b) Monero does it fine...

Monero is an alt with nothing like the capital that Bitcoin has behind it.

So sure - an alt can hard-fork every day of the week and no-one will complain but Bitcoin is not an alt.

Doesn't matter. Hard forks needs to be done in future to be flexible anyway. It's challanging yes - but altcoins (and other sowftware release cycles) are always good for looking how it could work.

So'd would be good to train that at all.


But back to - 1) Might be the easyies way to start that training. And if sb has fear, so start with 1.1 MB - just do it.

[CIYAM]

But back to - 1) Might be the easyies way to start that training. And if sb has fear, so start with 1.1 MB - just do it.

Again - why the urgency?

There is no urgency - except for people like you saying "just do it".

This isn't Nike and we aren't creating running shoes in sweat shops so maybe "let's just not do it right now".

[hv_]

But back to - 1) Might be the easyies way to start that training. And if sb has fear, so start with 1.1 MB - just do it.

Again - why the urgency?

There is no urgency - except for people like you saying "just do it".

This isn't Nike and we aren't creating running shoes in sweat shops so maybe "let's just not do it right now".

Yes - but as with Nike, if you stay on your nice couch & relax - you never start the important training (hope you agree here ) - so - do it , pls.

[CIYAM]

Yes - but as with Nike, if you stay on your nice couch & relax - you never start the important training (hope you agree here ) - so - do it , pls.

Really - that is just pathetic.

Rather than slogans and stupidity I prefer considered engineering (it is obvious why you support an alt coin).

And - btw - I don't develop Bitcoin so you should be telling others to "do it" rather than myself (although I'm pretty sure they'll be even less interested in your suggestions).

[franky1]

CIYAM ur avoiding showing the statistics.

so show the 'majority' (50% blocks 50% filled) and you win the debate that there is no priority.

if you want to win the priority debate by showing there is no urgency.. prove that using statistics

go on, please win a debate for once using statistics and prove hv_ wrong by showing 50%+ of blocks are 50% or less full

infact.. ill do one better.. 75% of blocks where blocks are less then 75% full.. prove that instead. and you win

[CIYAM]

CIYAM ur avoiding showing the statistics.

I was not arguing about particular statistics but merely pointed out that there are empty (i.e. 1 tx) blocks still being mined (please show me the stats of the number of 1 tx blocks mined in the last month).

(as you are so good with finding the stats then I'm sure you can find those)

You have no idea how many blocks are being SPV mined but the evidence from the last fork issue has shown that a large percentage (perhaps the majority) of Chinese mining pools are mining that way (which is not secure).

The further you increase the block size then the more SPV mining (at least in China) is going to happen (and as they control the majority of hashing power then they are what matters most). Thus the more you increase the block size the less secure the network is going to be (these are facts not conjectures like pretty much everything you come up with is).

[franky1]

so you concede that not all the miners are making 1tx blocks
so you concede that its not the majority of blocks that are 1tx..

so you are atleast open minded that its a minority that are making 1tx, and its actually the majority that would gain from allowing more transactions in because they are less greedy and are actually in it to help bitcoin succeed. (aswell as getting a little extra amount of t fees for being helpful)

also can you clarify clarify your interpretation of majority.

if you were to put a magic number.. would it be 50%, 75% 95%..
because for the last few months that has been something else you have not really stuck to..

so please in your own words what would you define as a majority

[CIYAM]

so you concede that not all the miners are making 1tx blocks
so you concede that its not the majority of blocks that are 1tx..

I never stated such a thing so saying that "I concede" this it is rather stupid of you (but to be expected as you always make stupid arguments).

You have a very bad habit of "trying to win points" when you have actually won nothing with your hollow arguments.

You have another very bad habit of trying to attack someone with multiple arguments in the one post - as you can see I don't care to address you subsequent arguments - either stick to one point per post or just see that your points will be ignored.

[franky1]

so you concede that not all the miners are making 1tx blocks
so you concede that its not the majority of blocks that are 1tx..

I never stated such a thing so saying that "I concede" this it is rather stupid of you (but to be expected as you always make stupid arguments).

You have a very bad habit of "trying to win points" when you have actually won nothing with your hollow arguments.

show statistics to prove your right.. otherwise its not winning or losing the debate by not proving... its conceding.. (totally different to losing) ..

prove your hollow argument or concede. i already done a screenshot of just 14 example blocks.. so my opinion is not hollow

i am not here to win points. i am not here to be famous. i am here to tell people in the most frank manner there is what is what,
i dont care if people love or hate me. it does not affect my life at all..

so again you can insult all you want to avoid answering a question. but atleast once try showing some statistics

[CIYAM]

show statistics to prove your right.. otherwise its not winning or losing the debate by not proving... its conceding.. (totally different to losing) ..

Really - are you so childish?

Again - I never stated what you are claiming I did - so why do I need to "prove myself right" for something only you think I stated?

(why don't you try and find where I stated that - and while you're at it where are the list of 1 tx blocks for the last month?)

[franky1]

Let's just go with this point - the majority of mining is in China (where also the majority of 1 tx blocks come from)

prove your point. and you win the prize of showing everyone that increasing the buffer is not urgent